Covid And The Rest of Us

[Karin1984]

Well, Belgium also declared the Netherlands as unsafe (as in 'Orange'-stage, yes, you can travel, but quarantining afterwards). This comes after that we in NL told our people not to go to Antwerp. Most fun in this whole situation is the city of 'Baarle Nassau', you should really look it up. This is a very strange city in the South of NL, due to some strange history part of the city is Dutch, part of the city is Belgium. This can be one street Dutch, crossing street Belgium, or even down to houses in the same street having different nationalities. It can happen that one side of the Restaurant is Belgian and has to close earlier due to their laws, and you have to crossover to the Dutch side of the restaurant. Which now of course is an insane situation as Belgium has a curfew, no people on the streets between 23:00 and 6:00. Belgium has masks, NL doesn't.

Yesterday we had another press conference about yes/no for masks. We are not going to get a mandate for the entire country, but mayors and local leaders are allowed to mandate it for their region. I think this is a good decision as in the North and East the figures are incredibly low. The hot spots in the West and South are something else, different circumstances require different measures.
They said that most infections happen A. at home within families (and you cannot regulate what happens in someone's private home), and B. among the tweens.

This morning there was an article in the newspaper about the people working at Customs at Amsterdam Airport and about the people they have send back since the beginning of the crisis. About 300 people were send back, mostly Americans. And when asked why they ignore the rules, apparently people answer with 'because we are American'. If all goes well, most people who are send back are on a plane within the next three hours.

 

[ronandannette]

Well snap. We were informed yesterday afternoon that our workplace will voluntarily be implementing mandatory masking, in keeping with the City by-law for public places that takes effect today. Offices like mine which are private premises with restricted access to the public are not bound by the mandate - only public buildings, transit and outlets that allow free access to all, like retail stores.

I intend to comply (really, there is no choice) as I have with every official directive since this thing started, but honestly, the idea of being masked all day is extremely hard to take. I had no argument against the mask mandate as long as I could pick-and-choose where I went and therefore limit my mask use. Almost everyone I know felt the same. This is a real blow to morale though, and as has been mentioned zillions of times in other contexts, the most disheartening issue is that there is NO DEFINED END-GAME. {{sigh}}

 

[kimblebee]

Well snap. We were informed yesterday afternoon that our workplace will voluntarily be implementing mandatory masking, in keeping with the City by-law for public places that takes effect today. Offices like mine which are private premises with restricted access to the public are not bound by the mandate - only public buildings, transit and outlets that allow free access to all, like retail stores.

I intend to comply (really, there is no choice) as I have with every official directive since this thing started, but honestly, the idea of being masked all day is extremely hard to take. I had no argument against the mask mandate as long as I could pick-and-choose where I went and therefore limit my mask use. Almost everyone I know felt the same. This is a real blow to morale though, and as has been mentioned zillions of times in other contexts, the most disheartening issue is that there is NO DEFINED END-GAME. {{sigh}}

I’m sorry. That would be really tough to take. I was out for an hour this morning in my mask and I haaaaaated it, but I was getting bloodwork done so it was mandatory. Mine is homemade and fleece lined and holy moley did I roast with it on.

 

[pigletto]

Southern Ontario, Canada here. Specifically Niagara Region.
Our numbers are trending upward again, which is to be expected with gradual reopening but there are cases specifically tied to reopening of the tourism areas in Niagara Falls that are just unnecessary. Videos were circulating of shoulder to shoulder crowds in the main tourist area a few weekends ago , and sure enough there are confirmed cases of employees at the attractions and restaurants testing positive this week . There were no protocols in place for social distancing and mask usage and now Niagara Falls is scrambling to implement them . If I sound bitter, I am . The mayor of this giant tourist Mecca yelled high and low that he was against masks mandates last month saying it was bad for business . Now here we are .. you know what else is bad for business ? People getting sick because you didn’t plan for reopening in a global pandemic . Now he’s changed his tune . Sigh . A safe reopening of this area was integral to the struggling economy.

Niagara did extremely well during the March to June stay at home period . It’s not feasible long term to keep us all inside and our economy has taken a huge blow . A safe and slow reopening is necessary to kickstart it again . However, I’m thinking that with our schools opening in September we will see a big spike in cases and be under tighter restrictions again by November. I no longer see a quick way out of this and I’m preparing for a winter inside and tough economic times . I don’t mean to be a Debbie Downer.. I just can’t see a way out of this any time soon and I want to be prepared .

 

[ronandannette]

I’m sorry. That would be really tough to take. I was out for an hour this morning in my mask and I haaaaaated it, but I was getting bloodwork done so it was mandatory. Mine is homemade and fleece lined and holy moley did I roast with it on.

Did you say fleece-lined? In Winnipeg? In August? Good gravy, I just couldn't. I was out getting groceries this morning and had to run into 4 different places. Even taking the paper mask off between stores I was sweating (at 23C and 61% humidity).

One thing I've noticed (and I've been paying close attention) that's happening gradually here over the past few weeks and totally since the mask mandates have started to come in is that the news is no longer reporting the specific locations and demographics of cases and fatalities. Our fatalities are steadily rising - we're at 196 now, which is 46 more province-wide since re-launch and alarming on the face of it. It would however, be fair and beneficial to let us know if the severe cases are trending downward in age. I heard a guest on a local radio talk show say that there has not been a fatality in Alberta in a person under the age of 70 since April, but I didn't catch who was speaking or what his source was. If the fatalities are still largely connected to senior's facilities, I think that tells us something.

OTOH, my cynical side says this information is being obfuscated in order to prevent people in very low-risk areas of the province and younger people everywhere from balking too hard at the mask mandates. Making everyone feel like we are all equally at risk seems like a manipulation to me, and a huge, outrageous manipulation by the WHO and health authorities everywhere at the beginning is what has made this whole mask thing such a nightmare to start with.

 

[kimblebee]

Did you say fleece-lined? In Winnipeg? In August? Good gravy, I just couldn't. I was out getting groceries this morning and had to run into 4 different places. Even taking the paper mask off between stores I was sweating (at 23C and 61% humidity).

One thing I've noticed (and I've been paying close attention) that's happening gradually here over the past few weeks and totally since the mask mandates have started to come in is that the news is no longer reporting the specific locations and demographics of cases and fatalities. Our fatalities are steadily rising - we're at 196 now, which is 46 more province-wide since re-launch and alarming on the face of it. It would however, be fair and beneficial to let us know if the severe cases are trending downward in age. I heard a guest on a local radio talk show say that there has not been a fatality in Alberta in a person under the age of 70 since April, but I didn't catch who was speaking or what his source was. If the fatalities are still largely connected to senior's facilities, I think that tells us something.

OTOH, my cynical side says this information is being obfuscated in order to prevent people in very low-risk areas of the province and younger people everywhere from balking too hard at the mask mandates. Making everyone feel like we are all equally at risk seems like a manipulation to me, and a huge, outrageous manipulation by the WHO and health authorities everywhere at the beginning is what has made this whole mask thing such a nightmare to start with.

Yeah, fleece lined, in Winnipeg, in August is not cool. It was made in March so it was still cold then lol

Right from the beginning we haven’t known specific areas where people are testing positive, they’d say Winnipeg, or the northern health district or interlake or something like that. The Hutterites have had a lot of harassment because the news reported it, they should have just left it as a region instead to be more vague.

 

[ronandannette]

Yeah, fleece lined, in Winnipeg, in August is not cool. It was made in March so it was still cold then lol

Right from the beginning we haven’t known specific areas where people are testing positive, they’d say Winnipeg, or the northern health district or interlake or something like that. The Hutterites have had a lot of harassment because the news reported it, they should have just left it as a region instead to be more vague.

Or maybe people just shouldn't be jerks? I actually think it's important and beneficial to know where outbreaks are occurring so others can avoid those groups/areas unless it's absolutely necessary. Up until just recently, our news was reporting on identified cases in public places like specific stores and businesses. It may not have been great for those businesses but it did afford the public the ability to assess whether or not they may have been in contact.

And in the specific example of the Hutterites, one would hope they are wisely quarantining and self-isolating as a group on the colonies the same way smaller families are required to. The communal nature of their living situation seems to me would require all of them to isolate together until the outbreak has resolved. Although it isn't exactly the same, our local First Nations Reserves have completely closed with gates and security personnel. They allow no entry to non-residents.

 

[kimblebee]

Or maybe people just shouldn't be jerks? I actually think it's important and beneficial to know where outbreaks are occurring so others can avoid those groups/areas unless it's absolutely necessary. Up until just recently, our news was reporting on identified cases in public places like specific stores and businesses. It may not have been great for those businesses but it did afford the public the ability to assess whether or not they may have been in contact.

And in the specific example of the Hutterites, one would hope they are wisely quarantining and self-isolating as a group on the colonies the same way smaller families are required to. The communal nature of their living situation seems to me would require all of them to isolate together until the outbreak has resolved. Although it isn't exactly the same, our local First Nations Reserves have completely closed with gates and security personnel. They allow no entry to non-residents.

No, they aren’t quarantining, and that’s why our cases are rising every day.

 

[ronandannette]

No, they aren’t quarantining, and that’s why our cases are rising every day.

Why aren't the local health authorities enforcing quarantine? Here mandatory self-isolation is monitored and there are penalties for violations. One would think (for better or worse) that it would be even easier to monitor the Hutterites - the don't exactly blend in to a crowd.

 

[maddiel]

I actually think it's important and beneficial to know where outbreaks are occurring so others can avoid those groups/areas unless it's absolutely necessary. Up until just recently, our news was reporting on identified cases in public places like specific stores and businesses. It may not have been great for those businesses but it did afford the public the ability to assess whether or not they may have been in contact.

Unfortunately, letting people know where the outbreaks aren't has a negative effect if you don't have barriers to entry - people from higher risk areas go to the lower risk areas and spread the infection.

Giving warnings of very specific areas/times where there was exposure makes sense but we here have had things get nasty when particular communities were identified as being higher risk, even though in fact the increased risk level was not very significant.

M.

 

[ronandannette]

Unfortunately, letting people know where the outbreaks aren't has a negative effect if you don't have barriers to entry - people from higher risk areas go to the lower risk areas and spread the infection.

Giving warnings of very specific areas/times where there was exposure makes sense but we here have had things get nasty when particular communities were identified as being higher risk, even though in fact the increased risk level was not very significant.

M.

That's similar to what @kimblebee said has happened in Manitoba. For a while earlier this spring there were also reports of vehicles with Alberta plates being keyed in BC and the residents of the tourist towns in the Interior being hostile to visitors but that seems to have resolved. Here in Calgary we have had a couple of news reports (and arrests for harassment and common assault) of individual miscreants verbally abusing and even spitting at people who look Asian, but that seems more like misguided ignorant racism motivated by a bias against China than anything truly Covid related.

 

[kimblebee]

That's similar to what @kimblebee said has happened in Manitoba. For a while earlier this spring there were also reports of vehicles with Alberta plates being keyed in BC and the residents of the tourist towns in the Interior being hostile to visitors but that seems to have resolved. Here in Calgary we have had a couple of news reports (and arrests for harassment and common assault) of individual miscreants verbally abusing and even spitting at people who look Asian, but that seems more like misguided ignorant racism motivated by a bias against China than anything truly Covid related.

I don’t think they are out and about, but I don’t think they are properly self isolating so it is spreading from one colony to another.

 

[elphaba91]

So here in Melbourne we are officially in a 'state of disaster' and stage 4 lockdown! Our numbers were just not dropping; they'd be down for a day or two and then bounce back up. The stage 3 restrictions were stopping our healthcare system from being overwhelmed, but the data showed we would have to remain in that stage for at least the rest of the year, with new cases and more deaths announced everyday, which just isn't tenable.

We can now only leave the house for the following reasons:
- For 1 hour of exercise a day within a 5km radius of home and only with 1 other person including from your household (exceptions for kids).
- 1 person per household per day for essential shopping within a 5km radius of home (or the nearest place if further away).
- For work or education if it can't be done from home.
- For care or care giving.

We also have a curfew and cannot be out of the house unless for work or care between 8pm and 5am - it is believed this is the first government-mandated curfew in Australian history (including both World Wars).

Everyone over 12 must wear face coverings anytime they leave the house unless they are doing strenuous exercise or have a medical exemption (although a lot of stores aren't accepting any exemptions).

All schools will be closed, including in regional areas. A big reason for that is because year 12 results here are based on a ranking system across the entire state, so it will place those students on an even playing field.

There will be more announcements today about businesses. Industries will be in 3 different categories - essential to remain open; can remain open with modifications or reduced staffing; or must close or work from home.

 

[ronandannette]

So here in Melbourne we are officially in a 'state of disaster' and stage 4 lockdown! Our numbers were just not dropping; they'd be down for a day or two and then bounce back up. The stage 3 restrictions were stopping our healthcare system from being overwhelmed, but the data showed we would have to remain in that stage for at least the rest of the year, with new cases and more deaths announced everyday, which just isn't tenable.

We can now only leave the house for the following reasons:
- For 1 hour of exercise a day within a 5km radius of home and only with 1 other person including from your household (exceptions for kids).
- 1 person per household per day for essential shopping within a 5km radius of home (or the nearest place if further away).
- For work or education if it can't be done from home.
- For care or care giving.

We also have a curfew and cannot be out of the house unless for work or care between 8pm and 5am - it is believed this is the first government-mandated curfew in Australian history (including both World Wars).

Everyone over 12 must wear face coverings anytime they leave the house unless they are doing strenuous exercise or have a medical exemption (although a lot of stores aren't accepting any exemptions).

All schools will be closed, including in regional areas. A big reason for that is because year 12 results here are based on a ranking system across the entire state, so it will place those students on an even playing field.

There will be more announcements today about businesses. Industries will be in 3 different categories - essential to remain open; can remain open with modifications or reduced staffing; or must close or work from home.

I had lunch today with a friend whose brother lives in Melbourne. While the number of cases you have there seem small, relatively speaking, it is surely a decisive response - you guys aren't playing at this. What's compliance like? I'd say it's better here in Canada than what we hear in the US but then again, our restrictions aren't too onerous.

 

[PrincessInOz]

Another Aussie jumping in the convo.

Day 2 of lockdown and can you tell some Melbournians are bored at home?
And what else would one do? Jump on the DisB-O-R-E-D and chat!



We have daily reports in the papers about case numbers.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03...w-covid-19-spreads-in-australia/12060704?nw=0

My life is like a Seinfeld episode. It takes 16 waking hours to fill in 30 minutes of nothing.

 

[ronandannette]

Another Aussie jumping in the convo.

Day 2 of lockdown and can you tell some Melbournians are bored at home?
And what else would one do? Jump on the DisB-O-R-E-D and chat!



We have daily reports in the papers about case numbers.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03...w-covid-19-spreads-in-australia/12060704?nw=0

My life is like a Seinfeld episode. It takes 16 waking hours to fill in 30 minutes of nothing.

Has your contact tracing determined what got your cases ramped back up again?

 

[kyton]

Overseas travellers who weren't following quarantine rules properly and watched over by incompetent security guards (many poorly trained or worse not even trained at all). They were let out of their hotel quarantine to congregate, visit shops close by and / or let out of quarantine whilst still infectious. This then led to local transmissions exploding. Add into this no borders closures between Victoria and NSW during this time has led to more cases spreading to NSW as well as minimal but still relevant new cases in Queensland.

Australia had been doing brilliantly until this happened. The Australian government wanted to send in Army personnel to oversea the hotel quarantine system - as they did in NSW where it worked - but the Victorian Premier for some reason decided he knew better and knocked the offer back which has been proven to be the incorrect choice.

 

[ronandannette]

Overseas travellers who weren't following quarantine rules properly and watched over by incompetent security guards (many poorly trained or worse not even trained at all). They were let out of their hotel quarantine to congregate, visit shops close by and / or let out of quarantine whilst still infectious. This then led to local transmissions exploding. Add into this no borders closures between Victoria and NSW during this time has led to more cases spreading to NSW as well as minimal but still relevant new cases in Queensland.

Australia had been doing brilliantly until this happened. The Australian government wanted to send in Army personnel to oversea the hotel quarantine system - as they did in NSW where it worked - but the Victorian Premier for some reason decided he knew better and knocked the offer back which has been proven to be the incorrect choice.

Which overseas travellers? I though Australian borders closed in March and have not reopened?

 

[kyton]

Returning Australian residents are still allowed to come back into Australia however we are restricting the daily numbers.

 

[PrincessInOz]

Has your contact tracing determined what got your cases ramped back up again?

Security guards were supposed to keep the quarantined returning expats inside their hotel rooms. No one told them that they were NOT supposed to be inside the rooms with the expats.....much less in bed with them!!

All roads lead back to those stupid actions.

And now we have community transmission. Roughly 25% of the people that have been told to stay home for 2 weeks are NOT staying home.

So....we are in the situation we are in.