Courtesy Post - Potential renters, please, please, please use caution. Active scams happening.

[rarebit1974]

Moderators - I apologize if this is not appropriate for this board however I felt that I should make potential DVC point renters that there are active scams currently happening. I search this board daily in hopes that I can again find my scammer. I also search another well known board and have seen posts about scams following the same scenario as mine in the same timeframe. I know these scams are nothing new but... ***I am hopeful that my situation will help others.***

I am a long time DVC Member who has recently been the victim of a DVC points rental scam. Being a DVC member, I am very well versed on renting points and the DVC process in general. I took every precaution possible.

In mid-March 2021, I was planning a vacation for a family that I babysit for. My DVC point allotment wouldn't even come close to what they/we needed for a 2br DVC villa so as in years past, I searched the rent/trade boards for fellow DVC members renting their points.

Sadly, I rented 175 points from someone who within 3 days of being paid in full, cancelled my reservation without notice or my consent. Yes....I linked the reservation to MDE and it was valid and showed all listed guests. The DVC member who rented the points was in communication for a while & promised a refund but has since disappeared. This scammer had real time access to DVC availability. She and I would e-mail back and forth with that availability until we found something that would work & a reservation was made. I signed a contract.... the reservation was made BEFORE I paid and I was provided proof via that reservation number & the DVC confirmation page we get via e-mail when making a reservation. I linked it to MDE...BEFORE I paid. Everything was legit.

I currently have my local Police Dept, DVC, my bank, Zelle, the FBI and Yahoo & Gmail involved. My local police dept is currently working with an investigator in Florida. I have SIGNIFICANT documentation of everything and provided the information to all parties involved.

Please....do NOT USE ZELLE or VENMO for any DVC points rental transactions. YOU WILL HAVE NO PROTECTION. Even if you file a claim with ZELLE or VENMO for fraud, you will not be permitted to even receive an update.

Also, please note that DVC will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to help you in this situation without legal action. I have called DVC several times since this happened and confirmed that this was a valid reservation that was cancelled by the member. I've even spoken with a supervisor. They understandably would not give me the member information. My local PD has filed subpoena's to obtain this information.

These scammers give good, honest DVC members a bad name/reputation.

I am still hopeful that I will be able to get my thousands of dollars back after further legal action however the chances are small.

Please everyone, be careful.

 

[Sandisw]

I am so sorry this happened to you. These situations are rare but it is sad when we see a report.

As you said, you did everything correctly to protect yourself and the people you were helping.

I really hope that the police are able to track down the owner and help you get the money back.

 

[Chuck S]

I'm so sorry you were scammed. I hope your are able to recover the lost funds.

 

[sethschroeder]

The good thing is that it sounds like you will be able to get the information of who actually made the reservation and possibly get some justice.

Keep us updated on how things turn out.

 

[Deb & Bill]

If you are a member, a transfer might have been better because you control the reservation.

 

[howardlee2]

yes this is really sad as you did everything right. The DVC owner who scammed you is not too smart as law enforcement will get them identified and will face consequences. the problem is whether you will be able to collect on a court awarded judgement......

 

[Yinn]

Moderators - I apologize if this is not appropriate for this board however I felt that I should make potential DVC point renters that there are active scams currently happening. I search this board daily in hopes that I can again find my scammer. I also search another well known board and have seen posts about scams following the same scenario as mine in the same timeframe. I know these scams are nothing new but... ***I am hopeful that my situation will help others.***

I am a long time DVC Member who has recently been the victim of a DVC points rental scam. Being a DVC member, I am very well versed on renting points and the DVC process in general. I took every precaution possible.

In mid-March 2021, I was planning a vacation for a family that I babysit for. My DVC point allotment wouldn't even come close to what they/we needed for a 2br DVC villa so as in years past, I searched the rent/trade boards for fellow DVC members renting their points.

Sadly, I rented 175 points from someone who within 3 days of being paid in full, cancelled my reservation without notice or my consent. Yes....I linked the reservation to MDE and it was valid and showed all listed guests. The DVC member who rented the points was in communication for a while & promised a refund but has since disappeared. This scammer had real time access to DVC availability. She and I would e-mail back and forth with that availability until we found something that would work & a reservation was made. I signed a contract.... the reservation was made BEFORE I paid and I was provided proof via that reservation number & the DVC confirmation page we get via e-mail when making a reservation. I linked it to MDE...BEFORE I paid. Everything was legit.

I currently have my local Police Dept, DVC, my bank, Zelle, the FBI and Yahoo & Gmail involved. My local police dept is currently working with an investigator in Florida. I have SIGNIFICANT documentation of everything and provided the information to all parties involved.

Please....do NOT USE ZELLE or VENMO for any DVC points rental transactions. YOU WILL HAVE NO PROTECTION. Even if you file a claim with ZELLE or VENMO for fraud, you will not be permitted to even receive an update.

Also, please note that DVC will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to help you in this situation without legal action. I have called DVC several times since this happened and confirmed that this was a valid reservation that was cancelled by the member. I've even spoken with a supervisor. They understandably would not give me the member information. My local PD has filed subpoena's to obtain this information.

These scammers give good, honest DVC members a bad name/reputation.

I am still hopeful that I will be able to get my thousands of dollars back after further legal action however the chances are small.

Please everyone, be careful.

The sad part is as a legitimate DVC owner who rents points, that's typically the process. As much as I like renting on these boards, that's the risk associated for trying to save a little money over using a broker. Unfortunately there's not a whole lot more a renter or an owner could do to give more assurances. The only thing I can recommend to people is to ask for references. That could be a pain for some but I know I've got renters - some repeat that would be more than willing to give a + or a - of their rental experience.

@moderator of disboard, is there any way to add a simple feedback system? I'm not sure if it's possible or not but I can see that adding a lot of value for people who want to rent from more established members. It doesn't even have to be text but I know it would be a lot easier to rent out if I have a lot of + signs and as a renter I'd feel more comfortable renting from someone with a lot of + signs.

 

[CarolMN]

@moderator of disboard, is there any way to add a simple feedback system? I'm not sure if it's possible or not but I can see that adding a lot of value for people who want to rent from more established members. It doesn't even have to be text but I know it would be a lot easier to rent out if I have a lot of + signs and as a renter I'd feel more comfortable renting from someone with a lot of + signs.

No, sorry. From the Required Reading thread pinned near the top of the Rent/Trade Forum:

All transactions are handled privately between the individuals involved. DVC rental transactions do not directly involve Disney, Disney Vacation Club or the DISboards.com . DISboards.com will not intervene in any issues resulting from these private transactions. DISboards.com does not endorse anyone offering rentals, trades or transfers and all transactions should be viewed as "Buyer Beware". We encourage all parties to use due diligence when participating in any rental transaction. DISboards.com cannot and will not be held responsible for any private transactions between the parties involved in these transactions.

FWIW, I do not think the OP used the DIS. For those that do, my advice is to read & take to heart these suggestions:

A Word to the Wise

 

[Yinn]

No, sorry. From the Required Reading thread pinned near the top of the Rent/Trade Forum:

All transactions are handled privately between the individuals involved. DVC rental transactions do not directly involve Disney, Disney Vacation Club or the DISboards.com . DISboards.com will not intervene in any issues resulting from these private transactions. DISboards.com does not endorse anyone offering rentals, trades or transfers and all transactions should be viewed as "Buyer Beware". We encourage all parties to use due diligence when participating in any rental transaction. DISboards.com cannot and will not be held responsible for any private transactions between the parties involved in these transactions.

FWIW, I do not think the OP used the DIS. For those that do, my advice is to read & take to heart these suggestions:

A Word to the Wise

I didn't mean from a policing perspective or an endorsing perspective. I don't expect disboard to get into the middle of it.

Right now the forums allows the conversation to take place between two private individuals. It also allows us to hit like, funny, angry, etc to posts that people place up. Each one of those does not mean disboards is supporting that post, merely providing a means for us to express our thoughts on it. Something similar in the rental section could be helpful to facilitate thoughts and feedback without endorsing or policing the transaction.

 

[zavandor]

It's not suprising that DVC would not give you the information about the scammer. But you got the police involved and they can certainly get those. If the scammer made a reservation using his points, then he's very stupid. But the worst case is that he obtained the reservation fraudulently. Maybe he scammed another owner who was oblivious and thought he was renting to someone legitimate. He was in the middle between you and the real owner, he obtained the reservation for you, got your money, never paid the owner who then cancelled. The owner might actually be innocent. That's why it's right that DVC would not give you the name of the owner who booked that reservation.
I hope they find your scammer and you get your money back.

 

[AnnaS]

So sorry to hear this happened to you. Good luck and let us know how you make out.

One can take all the necessary steps - but it all comes down to trust/someone honest.

20 plus years owner - many years ago when I did not have enough points, I had one transfer and one reservation rented from two members that I consider "friends" (one has since passed). The only way for me. I would never take a chance with a complete stranger. I am afraid to event rent from VRBO/AirBnB - and these sound a "little" more safer. People do it every day - but it's not for me. My worst fear is flying somewhere and have no reservation

Good luck!!!

 

[Sandisw]

I didn't mean from a policing perspective or an endorsing perspective. I don't expect disboard to get into the middle of it.

Right now the forums allows the conversation to take place between two private individuals. It also allows us to hit like, funny, angry, etc to posts that people place up. Each one of those does not mean disboards is supporting that post, merely providing a means for us to express our thoughts on it. Something similar in the rental section could be helpful to facilitate thoughts and feedback without endorsing or policing the transaction.

Any feedback that would be allowed would indirectly involve the DISboard though. A unhappy renter posts a negative report but who is to say the feedback is valid. It then would involve the owner to try and defend themselves, etc.

Unfortunately, with renting, there is always the risk, even small, that something goes wrong.

 

[anomamatt]

Please....do NOT USE ZELLE or VENMO for any DVC points rental transactions. YOU WILL HAVE NO PROTECTION. Even if you file a claim with ZELLE or VENMO for fraud, you will not be permitted to even receive an update.

First: sorry this happened to you.

And FWIW, PayPal is similar in that they will not help with any dispute over rented DVC points (regardless of whether you send the funds as payment for goods and services (obviously sending via friends and family will get you nothing)). Timeshare transactions are prohibited by PayPal and there are numerous stories of them refusing to step in over a rental dispute.

I'm not sure there is a safe, potentially refundable way to send money for a DVC rental. There is always going to be some risk dealing with someone you don't know.

 

[Jmazzuca243]

The easiest way to protect yourself is to pay with a Credit Card. If the seller fails to deliver the rental, the buyer can dispute the purchase with their credit card company. Since they did not receive the item, it’s fairly easy for the credit card company to refund the purchase to the buyer. Then the credit card company will separately handle getting the funds returned.

I recognize a lot of people are hesitant to use a credit card. You should only do it if you can immediately pay for it. But you can use a credit card on almost any platform (with a fee). I see alot of sellers trying to use PayPal Goods and Services and having the buyer pay the additional fee. Which is a waste of money since PayPal provides no protection. Instead you should use a credit card which is close to the PayPal fee amount. Using a credit card provides actual protection and I’m not sure why more people recommend it. I have rented points several times now and no buyer has thought of using one.

 

[Sandisw]

The easiest way to protect yourself is to pay with a Credit Card. If the seller fails to deliver the rental, the buyer can dispute the purchase with their credit card company. Since they did not receive the item, it’s fairly easy for the credit card company to refund the purchase to the buyer. Then the credit card company will separately handle getting the funds returned.

I recognize a lot of people are hesitant to use a credit card. You should only do it if you can immediately pay for it. But you can use a credit card on almost any platform (with a fee). I see alot of sellers trying to use PayPal Goods and Services and having the buyer pay the additional fee. Which is a waste of money since PayPal provides no protection. Instead you should use a credit card which is close to the PayPal fee amount. Using a credit card provides actual protection and I’m not sure why more people recommend it. I have rented points several times now and no buyer has thought of using one.

I don’t think you are going to find owners who accept a credit card for a private rental.

 

[Jmazzuca243]

I don’t think you are going to find owners who accept a credit card for a private rental.

The difference here is that the owner never really knows that the buyer used a credit card. But to use the credit card, the buyer has to pay an additional fee.

Several options to send money by paying through a credit card:
Venmo
PayPal - Friends and Family
CashApp
Apple Pay (Apple credit card only)
….
And many of the providers still allow some kind of credit card use for 3%

 

[Sandisw]

The difference here is that the owner never really knows that the buyer used a credit card. But to use the credit card, the buyer has to pay an additional fee.

Several options to send money by paying through a credit card:
Venmo
PayPal - Friends and Family
CashApp
Apple Pay (Apple credit card only)
….
And many of the providers still allow some kind of credit card use for 3%

I see what you are saying. They would be using the credit card to pay the owner via the app or systems.

However from my understanding, if a dispute is filed with your CC for a transaction of a timeshare rental using PayPal, for instance, it will be denied because PayPal doesn’t cover them.

Not sure terms and conditions of other ones you mentioned.

 

[Jmazzuca243]

I see what you are saying. They would be using the credit card to pay the owner via the app or systems.

However from my understanding, if a dispute is filed with your CC for a transaction of a timeshare rental using PayPal, for instance, it will be denied because PayPal doesn’t cover them.

Not sure terms and conditions of other ones you mentioned.

In the event the seller doesn’t provide the service, you dispute it with your credit card. You don’t dispute it with App (e.g. Paypal or Venmo). The credit card company has its own set of rules and since the item was never delivered, it’s fairly easy for them to rule in your favor. They don’t use the same rules as Paypal which helps the buyer. I personally have bought several items that have not been delivered (some Kickstarter like items and other collectibles) and Paypal said they don’t cover these items. But my credit card fully protected me in those cases

 

[Jmazzuca243]

Moderators - I apologize if this is not appropriate for this board however I felt that I should make potential DVC point renters that there are active scams currently happening. I search this board daily in hopes that I can again find my scammer. I also search another well known board and have seen posts about scams following the same scenario as mine in the same timeframe. I know these scams are nothing new but... ***I am hopeful that my situation will help others.***

I am a long time DVC Member who has recently been the victim of a DVC points rental scam. Being a DVC member, I am very well versed on renting points and the DVC process in general. I took every precaution possible.

In mid-March 2021, I was planning a vacation for a family that I babysit for. My DVC point allotment wouldn't even come close to what they/we needed for a 2br DVC villa so as in years past, I searched the rent/trade boards for fellow DVC members renting their points.

Sadly, I rented 175 points from someone who within 3 days of being paid in full, cancelled my reservation without notice or my consent. Yes....I linked the reservation to MDE and it was valid and showed all listed guests. The DVC member who rented the points was in communication for a while & promised a refund but has since disappeared. This scammer had real time access to DVC availability. She and I would e-mail back and forth with that availability until we found something that would work & a reservation was made. I signed a contract.... the reservation was made BEFORE I paid and I was provided proof via that reservation number & the DVC confirmation page we get via e-mail when making a reservation. I linked it to MDE...BEFORE I paid. Everything was legit.

I currently have my local Police Dept, DVC, my bank, Zelle, the FBI and Yahoo & Gmail involved. My local police dept is currently working with an investigator in Florida. I have SIGNIFICANT documentation of everything and provided the information to all parties involved.

Please....do NOT USE ZELLE or VENMO for any DVC points rental transactions. YOU WILL HAVE NO PROTECTION. Even if you file a claim with ZELLE or VENMO for fraud, you will not be permitted to even receive an update.

Also, please note that DVC will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to help you in this situation without legal action. I have called DVC several times since this happened and confirmed that this was a valid reservation that was cancelled by the member. I've even spoken with a supervisor. They understandably would not give me the member information. My local PD has filed subpoena's to obtain this information.

These scammers give good, honest DVC members a bad name/reputation.

I am still hopeful that I will be able to get my thousands of dollars back after further legal action however the chances are small.

Please everyone, be careful.

So sorry that this happened to you. This post made me think a lot more about renting and how would someone make sure it’s a real rental. The difficulty with communicating online is that anyone can act as another. In your case, the DVC owner might not have even known what was going on. The DVC owner might have been discussing a reservation and the scammer provided your information so that the reservation was created. The scammer never provided the deposit (after 3 days) so the DVC owner canceled it. I have had people back out of a rental after I sent the reservation to them. So I understand why Disney might not want to be involved.

The crazy part of this is that I could see how the DVC owner was also involved but had no idea. The only way I can think that would show a listing as being real would be to setup a Zoom Call with the owner and ask them to login their DVC account and show the reservation and their IDs. References can be faked; Reservation information can be forwarded from a real DVC owner. A lot of DVC renting relies on the good community but it only takes a couple of people to ruin it.

 

[starry_solo]

As a FYI, if you use a credit card on Venmo or send via Friends and Family via PayPal, you will likely be charged a cash advance fee. I seem to recall there was a discussion that Chase (and possibly other credit card companies) changed the terms and conditions regarding this and there was a discussion on the DIS.

I’m not sure where the OP did the rental from but he or she also posted in another similar forum.