Cost of Calls to Member Services

[Werner Weiss]

In the thread Why are we treated so poorly????, PamOKW raised a question in repsonse to a comment that I had made. Because it really doesn't relate to the topic of the thread (park pass discounts and whether or not DVC members are treated badly regarding discounts), I thought it would be better to start a new thread.

Originally posted by PamOKW
Werner, it was my understanding, as you indicate, that we pay for our "free" #800 number calls. This topic came up when non-members mentioned calling the 800# numerous times to make arrangements, requests, even just to find out availability and some members were dismayed to hear we were paying for these calls. At that time, some people here thought that we do not pay for those calls. I was unable to find any actual statement that we cover these costs but that has always been my understanding. Do you have it "in print" anywhere to share with other members?

I guess my answer would be, who else would pay?

What Disney budget would cover the cost of running DVC Member Services, if not the DVC operating budgets? (And, of course, the DVC operating budgets are paid by DVC member dues.) But I don't have anything "in print" right now. (Does someone else?)

I'm sure each call to Member Services involves several dollars -- possibly $10 or even $20 -- in expense to cover:

• The labor costs for the Member Services staff (pay and benefits), including management
• The cost of the call center facility (rent, improvements, utilities, computer equipment, furniture)
• The "800" line charges paid to a long distance carrier

The biggest cost component of a call to Member Services is undoubtedly the labor cost. But the "800" long distance charges add up even while we're just listening to music waiting for Member Services to answer.

DVC members who only call once or twice a year are subsidizing those who call all the time to make reservations on a day-by-day basis, who change reservations often, who book at their home resort at 11 months but change to another resort at 7 months, and who spend a lot of time making and changing dining PS through Member Services.

Marriott Vacation Club (MVCI) Owner Services charges a $29 fee to change a check-in date at an MVCI resort -- even though these are relatively simple transactions. Owners must reserve a full week during the season when they own their floating week, for that year. There's no borrowing or banking (except by depositing into Interval International and then trying to trade back in during a different year, which involves a $69 fee).

Should DVC charge for reservation changes? Should DVC allow a certain number of free calls per year, but then charge for excess calls? Should DVC eliminate dining PS through Member Services? How much are you willing to pay in DVC dues for the current, unlimited "free" calls to Member Services? Is there a way to define and curtail abuse, without penalizing legitimate use?

 

[Hilary]

... and how about those of us outside of the US who can't access the 800 numbers? We could be paying twice for calls - once as part of the dues (if what you're suggesting is correct) and again whenever we call MS ourselves.

 

[PamOKW]

I totally agree that we are charged for the calls in our dues. It just when someone called us on it, I couldn't find it in print.

I agree that members shouldn't abuse the number but I don't really feel the need to monitor calls. What I do have a problem with is a post here from a non-member that said CRO gave them the MS 800#. This person then used the 800# to make multiple inquiries about availability, requests, etc. MS took and responded to their calls without their having a Member number. I would like MS to maintain their policy of requiring a member number at the start of a phone call. No number, no service. If a legitimate member doesn't have their member number ready MS can help determine it, if they truly are the member. I also agree with the policy that the member number is for member services (reservations, PS, air/car arrangements, etc.)....if you have Disney related questions on park hours, etc. they should not be handled by MS.

 

[RobDoc]

What Disney budget would cover the cost of running DVC Member Services, if not the DVC operating budgets?

The expenses for MS are found in the DVC resort budget under #4-Administration and Front Desk. The description for this budget component is: "Cost of front desk operations and resort management, including operating supplies and equipment rental. Also includes costs for operational and administrative support from the WALT DISNEY WORLD Resort ("WDW")"

This would include such items as the MS 800#. Werner's points about the costs of this service are well taken, some are subsidizing the utilization of MS contact for others. That is the nature of many aspects of the program, as we don't all use every available option/service that we pay for with dues.

The estimated 2002 budget for OKW for Admin and Front Desk is $2,634,166 (Housekeeping's estimate is $4,684,698 and maintenance is $2,319,992). For HH, the same estimates are $843,342- $798,402 and $629,624.

 

[MickeyMcMouse]

Well said Hilary


You would think that with todays technology and being the largest group of members outside the US that we might have a "free" phone number as well .


David

 

[Firefighter Mickey]

Someone, somewhere will always be subsidizing some of the cost of membership for some other member.

What about those that don't use a pool?
How about that boat to DD?
I don't care for the video selection; why should I help pay for it with my dues?
If I don't have any kids, why should some of my dues be underwriting kid activities?
Why should Rich (I never use a bus) contribute toward the transportation costs?

 

[MickeyMcMouse]

It's maybe going slightly of the thread, and don't get me wrong, I don't want to be branded as a "whinging Scot !!".

I totally agree with Firefighter Mickeys valid point but....

"What about those that don't use a pool?
How about that boat to DD?
I don't care for the video selection; why should I help pay for it with my dues?
If I don't have any kids, why should some of my dues be underwriting kid activities?
Why should Rich (I never use a bus) contribute toward the transportation costs?"


The difference is choice. Every DVC member has the choice to use any of the above which we all pay for with dues, anyone outside the US ( and maybe Canada? ) does not have the choice of a free phone number.

JMHO but it still won't spoil the next 40 odd years of vacations.


David

 

[drusba]

In the official disclosure documents, Member Services is called by its official corporate name, the Buena Vista Trading Company. The documents provide for only two sources of income for that company's operating costs. First, the association is charged a fee of $1 per member (not per point) that goes to that company and you will see that charge reflected in the budget as the "DVC Reservation Component." That $1 cannot be raised or lowered and thus the amount of use of the 800 number has no bearing on the amount charged to that component of dues. That is the only charge in your dues that goes to the Member Services budget. Its second and most significant source of income is that it gets the lion's share of the breakage income -- amounts realized from renting rooms that have not been reserved by members by 60 days out. Breakage income is distributed as follows: (a) first to offset dues but only up to an amount that equals 2 1/2% of the annual budget (thus a few hundred thousand at most); (b) next to cover all operational costs of Member Services plus 5% of those costs (that 5% is essentially a profit to Member Services); (c) anything leftover is distributed to the Disney Vacation Club Management Company (the particular company that manages the resorts) as a profit to it.

Breakage income is likely a significant amount (at any given resort it is undoubtedly $1 million or more per year, and consider as far as amount to Member Services is concerned that it is coming from all five DVC resorts)) and well exceeds the amount that goes to offset dues. Thus Member Services easily gets the amounts it needs from that breakage income.

I understand that a DVC rep may have mentioned, possibly at an annual meeting several years ago, that members should consider using the 800 line less often because it effects dues. However, unless the official documents are wrong, and therefore contain a material misrepresentation, that oral statement was incorrect. Your dues should be unaffected by the amount of use of the 800 number.

 

[Ed T]

Wouldn't it nice to be able to go to the DVC website, type in your member # go to reservations, be able to make reservations, check points available, etc and do it all on line. this would certainly reduce some of the overhead and cost. Using the MS website right now is unproductive. By the time you correspond back and forth with them on line it can take you a week to get something reserved. If the airlines, car rental and other companies can accomplish this I don't see why Disney could get it accomplished.

Ed
DVC 1994

 

[MickeyMcMouse]

Ed T


Now that would be using technology like it's supposed too !

David

 

[jjcollins]

have to agree with everthing Hilary said, i think us BRITS are getting a Raw deal along with all other DVC'ers.



jj..............

 

[A1A1]

I've been a dvc member for a few years now and have always called the 407 wdwdine to make ps's. Well, I didn't even know that the 800 could be used for that. If anything *that* (800# ps's) should go to save us some money on dues, if anything.

 

[Firefighter Mickey]

It's not really worth the effort to call the 800# for PS's - just send them email. MS has been very helpful and responsive to all our PS's requests via email.

For the really critical PS's like Cindy's, you don't want to contact MS anyway, since they don't open until well after the available seats are filled.

 

[mickey1010]

I totally agree with you Ed T. I wish that DVC developed a website that could be used to make reservations, bank/borrow points, view account information along with all the other goodies. I would use that exclusively.

 

[dianeschlicht]

In the member guide it says PS ressies should be made at the regular,not 800 number.

 

[Firefighter Mickey]

I haven't looked at the MG recently, but I can tell you that if you call the 800# the voice prompt is very explicit about disney dining being an option.

 

[mikek]

All I can say is WOW- never thought about it before.

One question though- does anyone know how many points actually hit breakage? A quick estimate with the million a year number works out almost 10 rooms each and every night getting rented out by them (assumming they get around 300$ for each room).

That's alot of wasted points no?

Feel free to correct my estimate.

 

[timC]

OK. Don't hit me for calling the number to get this info, but here are the latest phone options:

3) Member Services, for reservations
1) Member Accounting, for dues, etc.
2) Address changes

For what's happening at WDW, please call 407...

By the way, they also note that DVC office will be closed on Dec 17 4p for a special event (xmas party?), and 24, and 25.

Cheers.

 

[drusba]

Mikek, as to the numbers for breakage income, I based it on an educated guess based on historical occupancy levels that used to be published in the Multi-Site Public Offering Statement. They stopped publishing those figures in mid-2000. However, they showed typically that historical occupancy levels by DVC Members reserving rooms plus persons using rooms as a result of DVC members trading out were in the 75% to 85% range per season, meaning at least 15% of the rooms went unreserved on average per night through the year. Weekday occupancy levels are higher -- they once showed those were in the 95% to 98% range with weekend more in the 60% to 70% range. However, with a 15% average going unreserved through the DVC program, that would mean at a place like BWV they would have on average 50 rooms a night that could be subject to rental during the breakage period, with most of those actually on weekends. As you note they need to rent on average only about 10 a night to exceeed $1 million a year in breakage income, but 10 per night is only 3% of the rooms at BWV. They of course won't be able to rent every room for every night but I believe my estimate of $1 million a year in breakage income is actually very conservative and could easily approach $2 million a year or more at any given resort.