Contemporary Suites Permits

Can someone explain the Suites/DVC thing to me? Anyone can rent a room in any DVC resort, so I don't get the distinction. :confused3 Are we just talking about how may rooms would be "dedicated" to rack rate vs. DVC?

Pretty much, yes. In addition, the "suites" portion (if it does get split) would likely not have kitchens, etc....they'd be set up a bit differently.
 
Can someone explain the Suites/DVC thing to me? Anyone can rent a room in any DVC resort, so I don't get the distinction. :confused3 Are we just talking about how may rooms would be "dedicated" to rack rate vs. DVC?

Some of the building may be Contemporary suites - not DVC.

the other part of the building hopefully will be DVC villa.

sounds like a compromise with CR - they get new and expensive suites. DVD gets to put up a DVC building.

when BCV was going up some of us (guilty) though it would be $150 per point. but so far DVC has charged the same. no matter where or what. so by then $110 to $120 is probably closer.

over on the resort board there have been reports of not enough suites in the MK area for the rich. I say rich because at $400 to a couple $1,000 a night - I certainly can't afford those prices for a hotel.

surposely WDW has lost booking because they don't have enough suites for this class of people.
 
when BCV was going up some of us (guilty) though it would be $150 per point. but so far DVC has charged the same. no matter where or what. so by then $110 to $120 is probably closer.

On second thought, I decided to go with the 110 to 120 and they'll just increase the points cost.

It would take too much to manipulate the whole system to give a CRV owner enough value for that price to offset the lower price of other DVCs. Unless they made a "DVC for the rich" as a separate program, which I don't think they will do.

So I'm going $110-120 for the price/pt and sticking with mixed use (DVC and Suites on separate floors).

Chris
 
Could a "mixed" building (luxury suites/DVC) possibly be Disney's attempt to snare some of the otherwise Four Seasons customers? :confused3
Obviously, FS believes WDW is a market for their clients, but not everyone at that $ level wants to make such a commitment. A monorail "uber-deluxe" resort might snag some of them. JMHO
 

Could a "mixed" building (luxury suites/DVC) possibly be Disney's attempt to snare some of the otherwise Four Seasons customers? :confused3
Obviously, FS believes WDW is a market for their clients, but not everyone at that $ level wants to make such a commitment. A monorail "uber-deluxe" resort might snag some of them. JMHO

See, I think the 4S deal is a sign that this is NOT a mixed building....because why make a deal to compete with yourself, when you're handing your competitor one of your main advantages by giving them land right across the lake? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Time will tell, but my feeling is this will be a 100% DVC building. We'll just have to wait and see, though...
 
Pretty much, yes. In addition, the "suites" portion (if it does get split) would likely not have kitchens, etc....they'd be set up a bit differently.
Hmm... I see. I've stayed in "suites-type" accommodations before. I guess I don't get why somebody interested in those types of accommodations wouldn't just rent a DVC 1br. :confused3 Does the presence of a kitchen make it less-than-fancy? They can pretend the kitchen doesn't exist and still just order room service! ;) I guess the DVC's aren't considered luxurious enough. In any case, I would think 4S would nab those customers now. :confused:
 
I didn't read through this entire thread, but I found this on site with the permits by searching all of '06, too.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Appl No#: 060713-12 Permit#: 48-00714-S Approved Date: 06-Sep-2006

Issuing Office: ORL


Permit Type: Environmental Resource (General Permit Modification)

Expiration Date: Project Acres: 2.89

Project Name: Dvc @ The Contemporary Construction Trailer Compound Receiving Body: Reedy Creek Via Reedy Creek Improvement District Master System


The others I saw indicated "Contemporary Suites" but this one says "DVC" in the project name.
 
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Project Name: Dvc @ The Contemporary Construction Trailer Compound Receiving Body: Reedy Creek Via Reedy Creek Improvement District Master System


The others I saw indicated "Contemporary Suites" but this one says "DVC" in the project name.

Which again begs the question of why it was "DVC @ The Contemporary" as of September '06 and in the documents file January '07 it is now going by the name "Contemporary Suites." Hmmmmmmm. :rolleyes1
 
I didn't read through this entire thread, but I found this on site with the permits by searching all of '06, too.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Appl No#: 060713-12 Permit#: 48-00714-S Approved Date: 06-Sep-2006

Issuing Office: ORL


Permit Type: Environmental Resource (General Permit Modification)

Expiration Date: Project Acres: 2.89

Project Name: Dvc @ The Contemporary Construction Trailer Compound Receiving Body: Reedy Creek Via Reedy Creek Improvement District Master System


The others I saw indicated "Contemporary Suites" but this one says "DVC" in the project name.

Yes, this was caught quite some time ago when discussing the original permits and filings.

Even in the specific filings on the Contemp suites, DVC is mentioned throughout the early paperwork, but is not in any of the later paperwork. All the construction compound paperwork "predates" the stuff that does not mention DVC.

The theory is that, originally, it WAS going to be a DVC building, but it's purpose was later changed and is either NOT DVC, or a DVC/CR suites mix.
 
Which again begs the question of why it was "DVC @ The Contemporary" as of September '06 and in the documents file January '07 it is now going by the name "Contemporary Suites." Hmmmmmmm. :rolleyes1

I dunno... this is part of what keeps making me think more $$$ - its just how does it work.

Suites are higher class - finer furniture, finer material, etc. You don't mix suites and DVC... at least not on the same floor. So why then do none of the later paperwork mention DVC?

Unless - there is going to be a DVC Suites? Higher cost per point, Higher yearly maintenance fees, etc. The rooms will be kept like suites, finer material, etc. And there will be some conversion between DVC suites and "regular" DVC - like a 1 for 2 trade-out and a 2 for 1 trade in meaning if the room was 20 DVC Suite points/night, it would cost 40 DVC regular points/night...

I just don't know. I know Disney is committed to DVC. They are committed to the higher end clientelle. But the 2 don't exactly mix - UNLESS - you make a new higher class of DVC. And you make less of these and put them in the Grand Floridian, Contemporary, etc...

And for those of you thinking there isn't enough to fill the 4 Seasons and additional Disney Suites - sorry, but there is. And Disney has stated there is. One of Disney's stated objectives for the World in the next 5 years is to increase the draw of the "High-End" customer. These people flat out return more per dollar spent than the common folk. Disney is planning on putting in more upscale items.

Chris
 
And for those of you thinking there isn't enough to fill the 4 Seasons and additional Disney Suites - sorry, but there is. And Disney has stated there is.

Where have they stated that? I've never seen them make any such statement....that there is enough current demand to fill 300+ suites (or 150+ suites if it's split) at CR AND fill a 4S resort across the lake. Can you point me to it?

Given what I know of resort demand, which admittedly isn't much, I can't see how it's true. If you can provide some concrete numbers or statements directly from Disney to contradict that....I'm more than wiling to reconsider.
 
Yes, this was caught quite some time ago when discussing the original permits and filings.

Even in the specific filings on the Contemp suites, DVC is mentioned throughout the early paperwork, but is not in any of the later paperwork. All the construction compound paperwork "predates" the stuff that does not mention DVC.

The theory is that, originally, it WAS going to be a DVC building, but it's purpose was later changed and is either NOT DVC, or a DVC/CR suites mix.

Thanks, pilferk. I didn't think I could be THAT much of a super sleuth!:rotfl:

Was the artist drawing a "leak?" If so, when did that come about? Could that have anything do to with them changing the name to avoid more spoiled info? Sorry if I'm way behind on this--trying to get the cliff notes on this one!
 
Where have they stated that? I've never seen them make any such statement....that there is enough current demand to fill 300+ suites (or 150+ suites if it's split) at CR AND fill a 4S resort across the lake. Can you point me to it?

Given what I know of resort demand, which admittedly isn't much, I can't see how it's true. If you can provide some concrete numbers or statements directly from Disney to contradict that....I'm more than wiling to reconsider.

You are correct I should have refrained from saying Disney has stated there is - they would never do that. If they did, you'd see hotels pop up around Orlando to fill that need. Obviously Disney keeps things tighter than that. But I also am 1 of the biggest believers that this building will be split between standard rooms to replace the lost wing, DVC rooms, and suites. I don't think we are talking 150-300 suites - at least I never was.

But we'll do some quick reads here. Obviously Disney thinks on-property demand for suites is high - or they wouldn't have worked with 4 seasons to move the development from Celebration to inside the park. Assuming it is average size, we are talking 200-300 suites in the 4 seasons (based on recent builds). Simply by making that agreement Disney is stating they expect that demand to be there.

In addition, there is the side comments about Disney selling out of suites regularly. But we'll assume the 4 seasons covers that - but don't forget - its not "Disney" and there is still value in the "Disney" name. There is also this:
Walt Disney World president Meg Crofton acknowledged the late arrival of Orlando, the nation's second biggest tourist city behind Las Vegas, to the world of luxury hotels.

"Orlando is now ranked No. 6 as a luxury destination," she said. "I think we can improve on that pretty quickly."

Well that makes them seem pretty interested, and this was in March - after the 4 Seasons announcement.

So lets look at what I mean by mixed use. We'll assume the CRV is a 16 floor building. Chop off 1 floor for 'services'. Make 4 floors general rooms to replace the wing that was lost. That leaves 11 floors. Mix those puppies up a bit - make 8 floors DVC and 3 floors suites... Without seeing the plans and adding in Conceirge type services we could put, what? 15 suites a floor? That would give us 45 suites? And the Grand Floridian already has 25? So its not a stretch.

So my point is they can mix and match how they please. To say it won't be suites isn't necessarily true. Disney has committed to a 4-star hotel on property. They've stated they see a market for the luxury destination. They are beginning to make luxury consumer products. The golf courses, spas, weddings, etc. are all designed to be extended to the 'luxury' crowd.

So, I agree there isn't a market to make a "suites" tower. But there also is a market to make some "suites" floors.

And to my original point - and maybe this deserves a survey - I think you will find a fair number of DVC owners who would be willing to pay significantly more for a DVC Suites program that was based on higher quality rooms and service. So you could even create some mixed DVC Suites/Suites type rooms and floors. If the Suites don't sell - rebrand them DVC. If the Suites sell and DVC doesn't, rebrand the DVC Suites as Suites. If they both sell - its off to the Floridian we go... (And the Grand Californian "Suites", etc, etc). I know this last part will be controversial - but I wouldn't be surprised to find out Disney is holding back some of the highly desirable locations for an "upscale" and more expensive DVC.

Chris
 
Was the artist drawing a "leak?" If so, when did that come about? Could that have anything do to with them changing the name to avoid more spoiled info? Sorry if I'm way behind on this--trying to get the cliff notes on this one!

The CR artwork was discovered on the website of designers Gwathmey Siegel & Associates back in August '06. I have no idea how long it was posted but the artwork was removed within 24 hours of being circulated in the Disney community. (If memory serves, someone found it on a Sunday afternoon and by early Monday it was gone.)

The caption on the images read:

Contemporary Disney Vacation Club
Resort Timeshare Condominiums
Lake Buena Vista, FL
Status: In design
Completion Date: 2008

Interestingly enough, a 2008 opening date would have served as a nice transition from SSR to this resort. Apparently the project was derailed for about a year since the new CR structure is not slated to open (according to permits posted here) until late-09.
 
If the Suites don't sell - rebrand them DVC.

I'm not sure if they would go even higher-scale in terms of accommodations at the CR, but the above comment is an approach that I could see coming into play.

The big criticism of cash suites seems to be coming from those who say there will be no demand. I say there would be few obstacles to opening the new CR building as all cash rooms and just seeing how it plays with consumers.

If people really aren't willing to pay big bucks to fill 300+ suites / villas on a nightly basis, then they get transitioned to DVC as is happening with the AKL.
 
I think it's interesting that they are well into excavation and have made no announcement. Usually announcements are made and drawings released before they even break ground. Perhaps they have not made a final decision or they are still working on a deal with someone.
 
You are correct I should have refrained from saying Disney has stated there is - they would never do that. If they did, you'd see hotels pop up around Orlando to fill that need. Obviously Disney keeps things tighter than that. But I also am 1 of the biggest believers that this building will be split between standard rooms to replace the lost wing, DVC rooms, and suites. I don't think we are talking 150-300 suites - at least I never was.

...

So lets look at what I mean by mixed use. We'll assume the CRV is a 16 floor building. Chop off 1 floor for 'services'. Make 4 floors general rooms to replace the wing that was lost. That leaves 11 floors. Mix those puppies up a bit - make 8 floors DVC and 3 floors suites... Without seeing the plans and adding in Conceirge type services we could put, what? 15 suites a floor? That would give us 45 suites? And the Grand Floridian already has 25? So its not a stretch.

I was looking at the very low res. plan in the permit a few months back and came up with a higher room count. I was just thinking in terms of DVC but the same numbers could be used for suites. The following I posted earlier...

On the north and south side of the 'C' there appeared to be 2, 2 bedroom villas on the inside of each side and 4, 2 bedroom villas on the ouside. So that's 6, 2 bedrooms on each side. On the front is wasn't so obvious. It looked like 4, 2 bedrooms on the inside and 6? on the outside. So that's 10, 2 bedrooms on the MK side. Total of 22, 2 bedroom units per floor. If you multiply that by 15 floors that's 330. Add some for first floor units. Subract some for GV's. Add some for dedicated studios and 1 bedrooms.
 
Interestingly enough, a 2008 opening date would have served as a nice transition from SSR to this resort. Apparently the project was derailed for about a year since the new CR structure is not slated to open (according to permits posted here) until late-09.

someone here stated that the north wing was the problem. It needed to go down and due to the hurricane damage - it would very, very expensive to take it down.

DVD didn't want to pay for it to go down since it needed to go down regardless.

So DVD went with AKV instead of CRV at that time.
 
I think it's interesting that they are well into excavation and have made no announcement. Usually announcements are made and drawings released before they even break ground. Perhaps they have not made a final decision or they are still working on a deal with someone.

that is one reason why - some of us believe it will be a DVC - at least partially. Florida timeshares law says so much of the building needs to be done before announcement. they didn't have to with SSR or AKV because the utilites and foundation work was done (okay they added to SSR). AKV is simply changing the rooms.

or someone else said - WDW hasn't yet made up its mind.

CRS or CRV or some combination of both. Who knows?

hey for all I know it might end up that parking lot.... but still don't think a parking lot needs plumbing....:happytv: :lmao: :rotfl2: :rotfl:
 



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