Considering Renting from a DVC Member?

[disney0210]

DVCMike, thanks for posting this. Much appreciated!

 

[DBurdette]

Mike, thanks so much for all the info. I am new at this and realize the risks. I so much want to try this but still have a few questions. Thanks so much, Denise

 

[Hunnypaw]

Mike and others,

Thanks for the insight!

As a new “homeowner,” might there be a similar thread regarding the art/science of "transferring points?" The only information that was recently pitched to me seemed a bit dogmatic and illustrated (at best) the “letter” and no “spirit” of interpreting the DVC commercial renting POS.

Signed, befuddled...

 

[StotheK]

Ok, I know people feel strongly about commercial activities. And I can understand the reasons behind that, and this may irritate some. But I think this thread itself makes a compelling argument for the existence of professional brokers.

There are a number of barriers to entry in my mind to both members and renters. There are the issues of trust, inconsistency and expert knowledge of the DVC system. All of these details have been discussed at length in this and other threads.

So if you have a business acting as the middleman, a lot of these things are eliminated. The business itself would have to establish trust as a reputable broker. Additionally a business is in a much better position to protect both parties and provide some degree of recourse if necessary. The process of course would be consistent with an established procedure. Presumably, the broker would also have to understand how the DVC works very well.

After all, there are essentially two goals with renting, the owner wants to turn unused points into cash and renters want to get great accommodations for a considerable discount over CRO. Eliminating the fears and confusion of people trying to accomplish this for the first time would help a lot more people realize those goals.

That being said I do want to assert that I'm not advocating buying DVC for the purpose of renting points commercially. I don't think DVC should be considered a reliable investment vehicle of any kind.

 

[JimMIA]

StrotheK's points are well-taken, except for a few little details of the DVC POS's, which prohibit DVC accounts being used for commercial business ventures. It's quite clear from the POS and DVC actions that individual owners renting modest numbers of points are fine with them, but commercial operations are not. DVC has been on a campaign, probably in part due to complaints from owners on this board, to minimize what they consider to be "commercial activities."

I don't know much about any of the broker operations who facilitate rentals for owners, but I do know two things. One is that they have to be made an associate on your account in order to make and manage the reservations they are renting. And two, the identity of those brokers is common knowledge to DVC.

That being the case, it's obvious there would be no big challenge in bringing up every account they are an associate on and branding those accounts "commercial activity." If making a broker an associate on your account to multiply their ability to conduct a commercial business isn't evidence of "commercial activity," I don't know what is.

I don't have anything against owners renting points, and I can see how using a broker would make that possible for many who would never take the risk alone. But I certainly wouldn't want my account identified as a commercial renter by DVC because the broker I'm dealing with in renting 50 points is doing hundreds of rentals a year!

As far as I know, DVC has not taken any adverse action against any of the brokers (and I only know of one), but I'm amazed at that. If they wanted to make an impact on commercial renting, brokers (and the accounts they use) seem like such a natural target of opportunity.

 

[StotheK]

In theory, the broker doesn't actually have to be a member, so the transaction is still primarily between the specific owner and renter. The fact that an owner has essentially hired someone to assist them in handling the details of the exchange may or may not then classify that transaction as commercial it's hard to tell.

What's likely to happen is Disney will find a way to change things within the system to make it a less simple process rather than going after specific owners who aren't making a whole lot of reservations individually. They've already done this since from what I can gather the broker nobody names appears to originally have done the transactions via point transfers, and now the transfer hole has been closed. Similarly, they look at the number of reservations made for non-members as an indicator of commercial activity.

This whole thing seems a little like the file sharing issues that have plagued the entertainment industries. It sort of happens in the underground. Granted Disney isn't being terribly heavy handed about it. But I think if they wanted to control it, they should offer some sort of alternative to renting.

However, I realize that is unrealistic. Even if Disney did some sort of point buyback system or marketplace, I doubt anyone other than Disney would benefit so neither of the original goals would really be met.

I also agree with your statement about associating a broker. It's an ugly workaround at best, and it would take a lot of faith to allow somebody to have that level of control over your account (not that I'm saying there has been an issue).

I just think there has got to be a better way to handle rental transactions, it all seems a little buying a stereo from a guy in a van to me

 

[Mickdeb]

Newbie to renting, thanks for all the helpful info.
Now for my question....is it even realistic to consider renting points for April-May 2009? Would this be a logistical nightmare or is it doable?
Thanks for any insight.
ETA: Wasn't sure which thread to post my question on, sorry if I'm in the wrong place.

 

[crisi]

Realistic, sure - you might need more than one member to rent from.

Personally, I recommend highly against renting DVC points for more than one room for more than one family traveling together. Something usually happens and someone ends up cancelling. Or bringing their daughter's new fiancee who puts the room over occupancy limits. DVC has difficult cancellation policies, strict room occupancy standards, and long time leads to make those sorts of reservations. Members who own their own points (and therefore know their own banking windows and don't need to "reimburse" themselves for their own points) often tear out their hair with family trips.

(We are currently doing one with my family. My sister was in with her boyfriend, then she was out (job related), then we moved the trip for her so she could be in again (solo). Then my other sister got cancer and the whole trip was postponed 18 months so she could go through chemo and feel better. Now the other sister has been out, in with a fiancee, out, and now perhaps in with no fiancee. For us, this hasn't been a huge deal since we own our points, have been able to switch our plans around fairly easily (we brought other friends last year), and have room configurations such that if "Sister Flakey" comes along, we can easily fit her in - though if she were definately out it would be a cheaper trip since we'd need a one bedroom and a two bedroom - not two two bedrooms. And my family doesn't even peg the dysfunction-o-meter compared to many families).

Do yourself a favor, have each family make their own reservations so you aren't left holding the bag.

 

[Mickdeb]

Thanks so much for the response

 

[JimMIA]

Crisi is right. One of the huge differences between a DVC reservation and a regular hotel reservation is the cancellation ramifications. Many DVC owners rent on a strictly non-refundable, non-cancelable basis because DVC cancellations can result in severe penalties. If you make the arrangements, and someone else's plans change, YOU could end up on the hook for their whole ressie.

Based on a LOT of threads where some family member messed the whole thing up, I'd say steer clear of handling the arrangements for the whole family. Let them make their own arrangements.

Or steer everyone to CRO. That way, if they change their minds, they can usually cancel with no penalty.

 

[Mickdeb]

Oops sorry moderator. My bad. Thanks for fixing the post.

 

[Spago11]

DVC Mike,

Thank You for a great informative post on rentiing, excellent !!

 

[canes96]

Thanks for this post. I'm also a newbie to renting and appreciate the good caveats here...

 

[shreked]

Thanks for taking the time to post this... It was very helpful

 

[rubal0103]

Thank you so much for the information. I would never have know any of this without your help. Is there an extra charge for the Magical Express?

 

[Deb & Bill]

Thank you so much for the information. I would never have know any of this without your help. Is there an extra charge for the Magical Express?

No, no extra charge.

 

[robinbutterfly]

good info. We are renting for our trip in Jan. A little nervous, but worth a shot!

 

[rowbear]

Ask for references from the DVC member who is renting the points, and check their references. Good references show that a DVC member has had successful rentals in the past, and is knowledgeable about the DVC program. You are more likely to have a miscommunication with a DVC member who is renting their points for the first time.

So next year when I need to rent out some points to pay for my 20th anniversary no one buy from me because it will be the first time I have done it and I will have no references.

 

[crisi]

So next year when I need to rent out some points to pay for my 20th anniversary no one buy from me because it will be the first time I have done it and I will have no references.

Not necessarily - its a give and take. A lower price per point might make someone overlook no references. Or having BWV points available eleven months out for F&W. Or having a track record on the DIS that makes your name recognizable.

And even all that assumes the person renting your points has bothered to read threads like this. And we do a great job of educating people - but people have to read the threads and my guess is that a lot of people don't go through the bother of doing the legwork. There are plenty of people renting points who just bop onto the rent trade board and start looking.

 

[rowbear]

Not necessarily - its a give and take. A lower price per point might make someone overlook no references. Or having BWV points available eleven months out for F&W. Or having a track record on the DIS that makes your name recognizable.

And even all that assumes the person renting your points has bothered to read threads like this. And we do a great job of educating people - but people have to read the threads and my guess is that a lot of people don't go through the bother of doing the legwork. There are plenty of people renting points who just bop onto the rent trade board and start looking.

So now I have to rent cheaper because I have no references? I imagine that renting is a rare thing for most people. In 8 years I have never even considered it until now. If it wasn't for the fact that we want to do something different for our 20th we would not even do it now.

I am all for educating people but it should be more realistic and not potentially hurt people who intend to do it.