Considering purchasing Riviera direct or a resale somewhere else (BWV most likely) Help!

[BrianLo]

As it pertains to this thought experiment, here are the values I think that matter on the spread.

1) There is a discrete monetary advantage by buying a like-for-like contact between DVD and a random seller.
A- In terms of closing costs.
B- The contracts cannot be stripped, so we are comparing like-for-like
C- Being able to pay or spread out the entire contract on credit cards
D- Being able to choose the exact specific contract you want, without haggling. No over or under buying points.

2) There is the possibility to have DVC pro-rate maintenance fees in the extreme for Dec Use years when a contract is bought in the Fall

3) There is a washable value on points. Both through the features to use them unrestricted as sleep around points and for Blue Card Benefits

4) There is a less tangible ease of buying direct


I'd value;
1- Probably around 10 dollars.
2- From 0-7 dollars depending on your situation
3- At least 10 dollars for every resale, I'd argue 15 as a baseline on the extremes of the fully restricted resorts. I think if market tested with an offer, people would jump at even higher figures.
4- This value can run negative when people get extreme loaded contracts (so not like-for-like), enjoy negotiating and are good at it. Are patient and have time. This value can become highly positive for some people as a personality trait. Wanting to book something ASAP. All things equal it's an annoyance so it hovers around zero.

So in terms of RIV, I think if people say a direct contract is not worth at least 25pp dollars more than a resale, they are really just arguing from a strange place of opinion. 30-40 is still pretty favourable for direct or quite positive with the right situation. Various posters could fairly easily justify 40-50 dollars - and clearly do, since direct sells so well.

So yes, 167pp seems logical. Posters would trip over themselves if we started hitting 150's, rightly so.

Now if you wouldn't accept a RIV contract if it was given to you for free, that's moot. But it would still be worth 25-50 dollars more than a resale contract given to you 'for free'. Assuming you keep it. Everyone loses money, no matter what, if you turn around and sell immediately. The whole house of cards of DVC is not predicting the future, but also not selling the contract within 2-3 years of buying.

 

[aammtt20]

It’s basically akin to asking what one would be willing to pay in ‘wash’ fees to make their existing resale contracts direct. I’m sure there’s a number there. At least 10$/p for the cheapwads. Probably more in the 20’s in reality.

I'd never considered the possibility of "washing" resale contract points before, but I bet that would be very attractive for resale owners once 2042 resorts close and are eventually reopened under restrictions, plus however many resale restricted resorts are opened between now and then. And it would have upside for DVC, as the money paid to do it would basically become pure profit; it really doesn't cost them anything tangible to offer that option. While, I can't really imagine DVC offering this (although as a resale owner I'd possibly take them up on it, if the price was reasonable), at the same time, it's still something fun to theorize about.

 

[tx911]

I'd never considered the possibility of "washing" resale contract points before, but I bet that would be very attractive for resale owners once 2042 resorts close and are eventually reopened under restrictions, plus however many resale restricted resorts are opened between now and then. And it would have upside for DVC, as the money paid to do it would basically become pure profit; it really doesn't cost them anything tangible to offer that option. While, I can't really imagine DVC offering this (although as a resale owner I'd possibly take them up on it, if the price was reasonable), at the same time, it's still something fun to theorize about.

I would pay good money to convert resale points to direct. Probably quite a bit of good money too.

It seems like it would be easy money for Disney.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

This is what I'm looking at, either 250 or 300 points direct. I like the Crescent Lake resorts, but I think I'll start at Riviera with direct points and get a feel for how hard it is to transfer into BC/BW. My only concern is that I'm being tempted by the Welcome Home bumps at 250/300 and may not need that many points for the next several years (just my wife and I for now, with 2-3 trips/year of 2-3 days each). That said, I'm not too concerned about resale and the wife and I like Riviera a lot. If I have trouble transferring into BC/BW, I'll just add on 50 or so resale points there (and maybe in a monorail resort, and maybe...).

I own at BC and BC studios and two beds are very hard in the 7 month window. 1 beds are possible, but those go quick as soon as the window opens up. Studios you pretty much need to own there

 

[dvc lover 1970]

You don't think Riviera at ~167 per pt is worth it?

I think its too high. During Covid prices dropped to around 130 per point - I do regret not buying then - but I had not seen the resort and I don't love the location. I would have preferred some sort of walking trail or boat expansion. So I guess 130 is my high for RIV direct.

 

[Electron_si]

I guess we are one of the outliers in this thread. RIV was the first DVC property we toured and the one that actually pulled us into DVC. My wife and I had drinks at Bar Riva while on an adult trip and talked about how nice it would be to be at Bar Riva while our kids were enjoying the pool. We bumped into the DVC kiosk on our way to the lobby and after a tour that was the resort we wanted to own at. The rooms were nicer than any of the deluxe resorts we had stayed at. After looking at numbers we just couldn’t justify the cost so I put an offer in on a PVB resale contract and we closed shortly after. We were happy but still wanted to own direct.

A little over a year later and some things have changed, RIV went on the current sale which I combined with the military incentive and purchased at $174 pp with MB. I feel like it was a great price, and I’m not worried about resale price as this will probably be our only direct contract so we will hold it indefinitely.

Side note: I’m extremely please we bought our PVB resale now if the same association ends up holding. I think our contract value will be well more than what we paid.

 

[BamaGuy44]

I guess we are one of the outliers in this thread. RIV was the first DVC property we toured and the one that actually pulled us into DVC. My wife and I had drinks at Bar Riva while on an adult trip and talked about how nice it would be to be at Bar Riva while our kids were enjoying the pool. We bumped into the DVC kiosk on our way to the lobby and after a tour that was the resort we wanted to own at. The rooms were nicer than any of the deluxe resorts we had stayed at. After looking at numbers we just couldn’t justify the cost so I put an offer in on a PVB resale contract and we closed shortly after. We were happy but still wanted to own direct.

A little over a year later and some things have changed, RIV went on the current sale which I combined with the military incentive and purchased at $174 pp with MB. I feel like it was a great price, and I’m not worried about resale price as this will probably be our only direct contract so we will hold it indefinitely.

Side note: I’m extremely please we bought our PVB resale now if the same association ends up holding. I think our contract value will be well more than what we paid.

You're not alone, don't worry! We absolutely love the resort and have no regrets buying there direct under the current incentives and MB. We rented points and stayed there before we were members and liked everything about it pretty much. If it had 2 bathrooms in a 1BR and a Copper Creek point chart it would be perfect! (A guy can dream)

We originally bought AKV resale, not sure if the extra money for direct is worth it. We found being locked out of RIV and possible future resorts took some of the fun out of our membership, and blue card is nice as well.

 

[wnielsen1]

I'd never considered the possibility of "washing" resale contract points before, but I bet that would be very attractive for resale owners once 2042 resorts close and are eventually reopened under restrictions, plus however many resale restricted resorts are opened between now and then. And it would have upside for DVC, as the money paid to do it would basically become pure profit; it really doesn't cost them anything tangible to offer that option. While, I can't really imagine DVC offering this (although as a resale owner I'd possibly take them up on it, if the price was reasonable), at the same time, it's still something fun to theorize about.

They'll eventually offer it, but the price won't be reasonable. Meaning that direct will be cheaper than resale + washing fee.

 

[egrzesiowski]

I guess we are one of the outliers in this thread. RIV was the first DVC property we toured and the one that actually pulled us into DVC. My wife and I had drinks at Bar Riva while on an adult trip and talked about how nice it would be to be at Bar Riva while our kids were enjoying the pool. We bumped into the DVC kiosk on our way to the lobby and after a tour that was the resort we wanted to own at. The rooms were nicer than any of the deluxe resorts we had stayed at. After looking at numbers we just couldn’t justify the cost so I put an offer in on a PVB resale contract and we closed shortly after. We were happy but still wanted to own direct.

A little over a year later and some things have changed, RIV went on the current sale which I combined with the military incentive and purchased at $174 pp with MB. I feel like it was a great price, and I’m not worried about resale price as this will probably be our only direct contract so we will hold it indefinitely.

Side note: I’m extremely please we bought our PVB resale now if the same association ends up holding. I think our contract value will be well more than what we paid.

Love to hear this! We haven't stayed at the Riviera yet, just went there for a quick service meal on our last trip and LOVED the vibe of the resort. The green area with the lawn games and Bocce (a family favorite). I love that the 1 bedroom can sleep 5 and the rooms look gorgeous. we love the skyliner and HS and EPCOT so I don't understand those saying it's a bad location. To me it felt so much more deluxe than boardwalk. I also love the food options. The menus at the quick service and the bar were amazing. Boardwalk food options were a huge letdown for us. We had a group of 13 with 6 little kids so we weren't going to sit down dinners at Trattoria or Flying Fish. Unfortunately I don't think we have the money to buy in after running all the numbers. I am still holding out hope that DVC will be in the cards sometime in the future.

 

[CastAStone]

Unfortunately I don't think we have the money to buy in after running all the numbers.

Good on you for being sensible about it. Many aren’t so smart. I wound up saving and waiting for the right deal for over 3 years between when I started seriously looking and when I actually purchased, and as a result I was able to pay cash, not finance, and get a great deal.

Best of luck!

 

[Huskerpaul]

Hi!
We just stayed at the Boardwalk last week with rented points and loved our stay. We did the DVC presentation for the $200 gift card and are now seriously considering purchasing a DVC contract. The only direct contract that interests us is Riviera. We are a family of 5 so we need a studio to fit 5 and we love that the 1 bedroom at Riviera also sleeps 5. We loved the location of boardwalk, but were leaning towards a newer contract that would be longer. I did look into resale contracts and found that we can save a lot of money, but we would never be able to stay at Riviera or Disneyland Villas or any potential new DVC resorts. I also don't like that the Riviera resale contracts can only stay there, so that is not an option. With the new Poly tower coming soon I was curious if people think that might drive the cost down for Riviera? we will likely be going to disney 1 time a year or every other year. We are only looking at 150 points as that is all we can afford. I feel like from reading in different places online that not many people buy direct, but the restrictions seem bad if we don't and have interest in the newer resorts? But my guide wouldn't confirm that we can book all future resorts so i guess there is a chance new ones are built and they exclude older contracts? Just looking for some feedback on buying direct at Riviera and best times to buy if there are any.
Thank you!

Why not just keep renting points? With enough planning you can rent anywhere your heart desires, plus no huge cash outlay that way.

 

[SugarSweetLee]

However 150 points doesn't seem like it will go very far unless you get the right use year for your vacation purposes.

Can you explain your comment here about how use year impacts point usage?

 

[BuzzLightyr]

You could also speculate on where pricing on RIV direct is going. My guess is this current promo is relatively cheap but there will be a cheaper buy in opportunity in 18 months.

DVD is going to balance their promotions - they need to sell contracts when they need to raise cash, but also can't overwhelm their guides and the number of contracts they write out.

When Poly2 first gets released, i expect a flurry of activity with those looking to buy that are going to buy. Nothing else will look especially great, but the cabins, aulani and riveria will still be available, but all the guides will be busy with Poly2.

Right now RIV is far from being sold out, but doing very well on cash rentals that there is no rush to sell faster. Poly2/Island tower will be only initially available for cash rentals, then will be a mix of points/cash. Initially it will be hard/expensive to book Poly2. Once it becomes easier to book Poly 2 - RIV will no longer be the shiny new place for cash rentals and it will be harder for DVD to rent out owned points.

At that time, i expect another VGF2 style sale to move RIV points. It may not reach VGF2 levels, but will likely be more discounted that what we have currently. Someone at DVD is sitting there with a list of points they own and have to sell, comparing to historical sales level and deciding where to prioritize incentives. Right now RIV is their flagship direct option in FL - once Poly2 comes in, RIV will need some more incentives to move contracts.

 

[DVCsloth]

Hi!
We just stayed at the Boardwalk last week with rented points and loved our stay. We did the DVC presentation for the $200 gift card and are now seriously considering purchasing a DVC contract. The only direct contract that interests us is Riviera. We are a family of 5 so we need a studio to fit 5 and we love that the 1 bedroom at Riviera also sleeps 5. We loved the location of boardwalk, but were leaning towards a newer contract that would be longer. I did look into resale contracts and found that we can save a lot of money, but we would never be able to stay at Riviera or Disneyland Villas or any potential new DVC resorts. I also don't like that the Riviera resale contracts can only stay there, so that is not an option. With the new Poly tower coming soon I was curious if people think that might drive the cost down for Riviera? we will likely be going to disney 1 time a year or every other year. We are only looking at 150 points as that is all we can afford. I feel like from reading in different places online that not many people buy direct, but the restrictions seem bad if we don't and have interest in the newer resorts? But my guide wouldn't confirm that we can book all future resorts so i guess there is a chance new ones are built and they exclude older contracts? Just looking for some feedback on buying direct at Riviera and best times to buy if there are any.
Thank you!

I think BWV could be a pretty decent purchase resale. It's got an awesome point chart and location. I don't necessarily consider the end date a bad thing. You would still be able to use your points at the original 14 and have 11 months booking at BWV. So, I guess about 18 years' worth of vacations, and you just walk away. Might not be a bad choice, especially since you already know you like the resort.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

You could also speculate on where pricing on RIV direct is going. My guess is this current promo is relatively cheap but there will be a cheaper buy in opportunity in 18 months.

DVD is going to balance their promotions - they need to sell contracts when they need to raise cash, but also can't overwhelm their guides and the number of contracts they write out.

When Poly2 first gets released, i expect a flurry of activity with those looking to buy that are going to buy. Nothing else will look especially great, but the cabins, aulani and riveria will still be available, but all the guides will be busy with Poly2.

Right now RIV is far from being sold out, but doing very well on cash rentals that there is no rush to sell faster. Poly2/Island tower will be only initially available for cash rentals, then will be a mix of points/cash. Initially it will be hard/expensive to book Poly2. Once it becomes easier to book Poly 2 - RIV will no longer be the shiny new place for cash rentals and it will be harder for DVD to rent out owned points.

At that time, i expect another VGF2 style sale to move RIV points. It may not reach VGF2 levels, but will likely be more discounted that what we have currently. Someone at DVD is sitting there with a list of points they own and have to sell, comparing to historical sales level and deciding where to prioritize incentives. Right now RIV is their flagship direct option in FL - once Poly2 comes in, RIV will need some more incentives to move contracts.

I agree with mostly everything you said but in 18mos direct pricing will likely have had an increase or 2, it won’t be starting at $225, so I’m not sure even with better incentives the price will effectively be better than it is today. Although I certainly hope I’m wrong, I’d love to grab some last fire sale points right before it sells out!

 

[TinkAgainU]

There’s no way they would ever take that benefit away… it’s the only thing that properly differentiates the direct product from resale so would be self-defeating.

Never say never with Disney (or any corporation). They are trying to show Incidental Benefits as the biggie instead. And all they have to do is open a resort (call it The Bisney Resort or Bisney Resort Points Club) which is unrelated to DVC to have properties which exclude prior resorts owners, direct or not. I know we are all hoping Grandfathering will cover this issue, but Grandfathering is often forced more by a legal action than given as a loyalty reward. I'm not anti-Direct, just have been blind-sided more than once by Disney business practices.

 

[jimmytammy]

To the original poster:
I didn't read all the way through the posts and the advice you have been given, but I feel it best to say this, buy where you most want to stay.

We own at BRV and BWV and both of those are tough to get at certain times of the year. BRV at Dec because it is absolutely stunning then, and BWV during Food and Wine Festival simply because you can walk a few steps and boom, you are at the back gate of Epcot and right smack dab in the middle of F&W. If BWV appeals to you because of this, it will be tough to get any rooms past the 11 month window.

 

[DonkeyHoTay]

… Life can happen, and it loses a ton of value on the resale market due to restrictions. If you ever have to sell, it’s not a great spot to be in. Not that anyone plans to sell, but you should always go in with a potential exit strategy.

I’m well off enough, but always consider resale value on pretty much anything I buy. It’s probably a sickness. LOL.

I’m consistently amazed how often some will say they expect to keep contracts to expiration and don’t care about resale value. Have to wonder how many sellers on the resale market felt the same way in the beginning? I can’t operate like that - have to have an exit strategy for any financial decision.

OKW comes with high fees and is so cheap resale it is still hard to justify the recent direct price unless you want to buy 1000 points…

Yeah! I mean… that’s… me too!

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

I’m consistently amazed how often some will say they expect to keep contracts to expiration and don’t care about resale value. Have to wonder how many sellers on the resale market felt the same way in the beginning? I can’t operate like that - have to have an exit strategy for any financial decision.

I’m one of these people, but I’m also aware that life happens and before we got DVC my biggest consideration was that if I had to, I could actually get rid of it quickly and relatively efficiently, I was ok with selling at a “loss” because I never walked into this as a financial investment. For us, DVC is different, not because it holds actual value (an amazing bonus, to be sure!) but because it has an active market to sell if I had to, most other timeshares can’t guarantee that. Well that, and because I love WDW and will continue to go multiple times a year and no longer want the value resort vacation. If it ever comes time to sell, DVC will have given me and my family many years of memories and trips for however many years we have it for a great price. That has more than enough value for us. My financial investments are a very different pool of money and DVC would have never happened if I used my investment hat when buying in. Anything on top of it is just icing. I imagine most family’s who buy DVC have their own reasons, many who agree with your thought process, this is just mine.

 

[Sandisw]

I’m consistently amazed how often some will say they expect to keep contracts to expiration and don’t care about resale value. Have to wonder how many sellers on the resale market felt the same way in the beginning? I can’t operate like that - have to have an exit strategy for any financial decision.



Yeah! I mean… that’s… me too!

I don’t think everyone who isnt concerned about resale value intends to keep forever…but rather that they see whatever resale value exists as a bonus when and if they want or need to sell.

When we bought, we could give our contract away at 10 years and still have enjoyed our Disney vacations for less than cash. If we sold at 50% purchase price, we were in the good at just 5 years.

If we had to sell prior tbat, it would mean something else unexpected was going on and how much we got back would probably be the least of our concerns,

I have bought and sold a bit and now own RIV…direct and resale. Based on the benefit of trips I have gotten out of those points, I could sell today at a loss and still come out ahead.

I just think there are too many variables in the market and in the control of DVD that expecting or even needing to get X back can be risky, The one thing we do know is that as long as WDW exists and cash prices exist, DVC contracts will sell for more than $0.

But, I do get that for some they cant accept resale restrictions snd the potential impact it might have.