Considering buying DVC. Should we go Re-sale or through Disney??

[rusafee1183]

I hear wonderful things about http://www.***************/ but I also hear that there are limitations when buying through re-sale. Can someone explain what these are and what that would mean for me?

Can you finance when working with a re-sale company or do you need to pay outright?

I always *think* that I understand DVC, but then I question myself and I'm not sure that I understand all the in's and out's

Thanks for any help!!!

 

[Plutofan]

If you are purchasing one of the older DVC resorts I would go resale. To me the extra benefits of buying direct are not worth the extra costs. I have never used my points outside of booking a DVC stay since the value is very limited.

 

[juncker]

I'm a big fan of re-sale. The big plus is that you can get a much better price. The other plus of re-sale is that you can buy into resorts that aren't regularly being offered by DVC (although you can put in a request if one becomes available). A resale will have a balance of points (either negative or positive), so all deals aren't the same. You can find a good contract with a lot of banked points that is a great way to start (or borrowed points, which you could get at more of a discount).

There are downsides to re-sale. Primarily, you can't use your points for Disney Cruise line, Adventures by Disney, or the other Disney properties (forget what that portion is called). The reality is that these aren't the best use of your points as you can probably do better renting out your points and buying the same for cash. Understand this statement. This is the big difference between direct vs. resale.

Going direct is much faster, and they are a great team. It's really up to you and what is important. To us, it was all about the money. Once you're in though, other than the new restrictions I mentioned above, your points are the same as direct through Disney for making reservations. It's more important where your home resort is than where you got the points from. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[mjc2003]

Here is what you would be restricted from buying resale:

Under the new policy, Members who purchase from anyone other than Disney Vacation Development, Inc., on or after March 21, 2011, will not be eligible to use those Vacation Points to make reservations within the Concierge Collection, the Disney Collection or the Adventurer Collection. Those Vacation Points will instead be valid only for reservations at Disney Vacation Club resorts, as well as for RCI® exchanges, Club Cordial and Club Intrawest.

(Note that DCL is included in the list of things where you could not use resale points).

Most people will attest that the above mentioned uses are not a good cost value. Most use them sparingly, if at all. Resale purchasers would still be able to trade into RCI, and can still rent out points.
The consensus is that renting out points and paying cash for any of the above restrictions is the way to go. My advice would be to research what the restricted options actually consist of; to me they don't look like a good value. I would think they are most frequently used by those with an abundance of points.

If your desire is to travel mostly to WDW, and perhaps sometimes trade into RCI, then buy resale. You could always rent out your resale points to pay cash for things like DCL (many have shown examples of how this actually can put hundreds of extra dollars in your pocket).

Also consider that resale, in some cases, can be 50% of direct cost. This works out to a huge savings. One factor is, where do you want to buy? Some resale prices are much closer to direct costs; in this scenario, buying direct might be the way to go.

The one other consideration is that resale purchases can take approx 45-60 days (mine took 50 during the crush of pre 3-20 activity), whereas points purchased direct can be used in a matter of minutes. This is an issue for some; for me, I was looking at an extra $7000 to buy the same points direct vs resale. I can wait 2 months to save $7000.

Again, I would urge you to research the Concierge, Disney and Adventure Collections. Would you use your points for these options?

 

[rusafee1183]

Here is what you would be restricted from buying resale:

Under the new policy, Members who purchase from anyone other than Disney Vacation Development, Inc., on or after March 21, 2011, will not be eligible to use those Vacation Points to make reservations within the Concierge Collection, the Disney Collection or the Adventurer Collection. Those Vacation Points will instead be valid only for reservations at Disney Vacation Club resorts, as well as for RCI® exchanges, Club Cordial and Club Intrawest.

(Note that DCL is included in the list of things where you could not use resale points).

Most people will attest that the above mentioned uses are not a good cost value. Most use them sparingly, if at all. Resale purchasers would still be able to trade into RCI, and can still rent out points.
The consensus is that renting out points and paying cash for any of the above restrictions is the way to go. My advice would be to research what the restricted options actually consist of; to me they don't look like a good value. I would think they are most frequently used by those with an abundance of points.

If your desire is to travel mostly to WDW, and perhaps sometimes trade into RCI, then buy resale. You could always rent out your resale points to pay cash for things like DCL (many have shown examples of how this actually can put hundreds of extra dollars in your pocket).

Also consider that resale, in some cases, can be 50% of direct cost. This works out to a huge savings. One factor is, where do you want to buy? Some resale prices are much closer to direct costs; in this scenario, buying direct might be the way to go.

The one other consideration is that resale purchases can take approx 45-60 days (mine took 50 during the crush of pre 3-20 activity), whereas points purchased direct can be used in a matter of minutes. This is an issue for some; for me, I was looking at an extra $7000 to buy the same points direct vs resale. I can wait 2 months to save $7000.

Again, I would urge you to research the Concierge, Disney and Adventure Collections. Would you use your points for these options?

Where do I find this info? I don't know what any of that includes.

Thanks! I'm a newbie to DVC lingo I don't even know what RCI means.

 

[rusafee1183]

Here is what you would be restricted from buying resale:

Under the new policy, Members who purchase from anyone other than Disney Vacation Development, Inc., on or after March 21, 2011, will not be eligible to use those Vacation Points to make reservations within the Concierge Collection, the Disney Collection or the Adventurer Collection. Those Vacation Points will instead be valid only for reservations at Disney Vacation Club resorts, as well as for RCI® exchanges, Club Cordial and Club Intrawest.

(Note that DCL is included in the list of things where you could not use resale points).

Most people will attest that the above mentioned uses are not a good cost value. Most use them sparingly, if at all. Resale purchasers would still be able to trade into RCI, and can still rent out points.
The consensus is that renting out points and paying cash for any of the above restrictions is the way to go. My advice would be to research what the restricted options actually consist of; to me they don't look like a good value. I would think they are most frequently used by those with an abundance of points.

If your desire is to travel mostly to WDW, and perhaps sometimes trade into RCI, then buy resale. You could always rent out your resale points to pay cash for things like DCL (many have shown examples of how this actually can put hundreds of extra dollars in your pocket).

Also consider that resale, in some cases, can be 50% of direct cost. This works out to a huge savings. One factor is, where do you want to buy? Some resale prices are much closer to direct costs; in this scenario, buying direct might be the way to go.

The one other consideration is that resale purchases can take approx 45-60 days (mine took 50 during the crush of pre 3-20 activity), whereas points purchased direct can be used in a matter of minutes. This is an issue for some; for me, I was looking at an extra $7000 to buy the same points direct vs resale. I can wait 2 months to save $7000.

Again, I would urge you to research the Concierge, Disney and Adventure Collections. Would you use your points for these options?

Where do I find this info? I don't know what any of that includes.

Thanks! I'm a newbie to DVC lingo I don't even know what RCI means.

 

[JimMIA]

Where do I find this info? I don't know what any of that includes.

That's okay, you're way ahead of the pack of prospective buyers just to have found the DIS and begun to ask intelligent questions.

Frankly, I'm not entirely sure of all the ins and outs of those "collections" but I'll take a stab at it and hopefully someone will correct any mistakes I make.

Basically, there are other options -- outside of DVC resorts themselves -- for which you can use DVC points. As others have mentioned, many do not consider any of those options to be great values for your points, but that's a very subjective evaluation generally. There are probably some specific examples where just about anyone would think they were paying a REALLY high price for a vacation option, others where you might get a decent value.

If you buy resale, you would not have access to the following:

The Concierge Collection is a group of high end hotels where DVC points can be used for nightly stays. It's a small group, but some nice hotels.

The Adventurer's Collection is the various "Adventures by Disney," which are group trips to cool places. WAY expensive.

The Disney Collection includes Disney Cruise Lines and those Disney deluxe and moderate resorts which do not have a connected DVC resort. So currently, you could use points at the Poly or Grand Floridian, but not the Contemporary or Yacht/Beach Club or Wilderness Lodge. Again, these are high points cost stays, but some members use them.

You would have access to all DVC resorts, RCI, Club Cordial, and Club Intrawest if you bought resale.

RCI is the largest timeshare exchange system around, but DVC members have access only to a little less than 600 RCI resorts (out of 6,500+). Of course, doing an RCI exchange requires learning not only DVC, but also RCI policies and strategies. Club Intrawest is a smaller exchange, I think, and I believe Club Cordial is another set of non-Disney hotels that accept DVC points. Not actually sure about those last two.

I think it is also important for any prospective buyer to understand that ALL of the above options -- for both direct and resale buyers -- are benefits of DVC which are changeable. In fact, only a few things are actually guaranteed with DVC:

• You will be allowed to use your points at your own home resort...subject to availability, of course.
• And, as long as using points at non-home resorts is permitted, you will always enjoy at least a one-month booking advantage at your home resort over non-home resort owners. (That advantage is currently 4 months -- 11 months home resort, 7 months non-home.)

 

[rusafee1183]

That's okay, you're way ahead of the pack of prospective buyers just to have found the DIS and begun to ask intelligent questions.

Frankly, I'm not entirely sure of all the ins and outs of those "collections" but I'll take a stab at it and hopefully someone will correct any mistakes I make.

Basically, there are other options -- outside of DVC resorts themselves -- for which you can use DVC points. As others have mentioned, many do not consider any of those options to be great values for your points, but that's a very subjective evaluation generally. There are probably some specific examples where just about anyone would think they were paying a REALLY high price for a vacation option, others where you might get a decent value.

If you buy resale, you would not have access to the following:

The Concierge Collection is a group of high end hotels where DVC points can be used for nightly stays. It's a small group, but some nice hotels.

The Adventurer's Collection is the various "Adventures by Disney," which are group trips to cool places. WAY expensive.

The Disney Collection includes Disney Cruise Lines and those Disney deluxe and moderate resorts which do not have a connected DVC resort. So currently, you could use points at the Poly or Grand Floridian, but not the Contemporary or Yacht/Beach Club or Wilderness Lodge. Again, these are high points cost stays, but some members use them.

You would have access to all DVC resorts, RCI, Club Cordial, and Club Intrawest if you bought resale.

RCI is the largest timeshare exchange system around, but DVC members have access only to a little less than 600 RCI resorts (out of 6,500+). Of course, doing an RCI exchange requires learning not only DVC, but also RCI policies and strategies. Club Intrawest is a smaller exchange, I think, and I believe Club Cordial is another set of non-Disney hotels that accept DVC points. Not actually sure about those last two.

I think it is also important for any prospective buyer to understand that ALL of the above options -- for both direct and resale buyers -- are benefits of DVC which are changeable. In fact, only a few things are actually guaranteed with DVC:

• You will be allowed to use your points at your own home resort...subject to availability, of course.
• And, as long as using points at non-home resorts is permitted, you will always enjoy at least a one-month booking advantage at your home resort over non-home resort owners. (That advantage is currently 4 months -- 11 months home resort, 7 months non-home.)

Oh, I see! Thanks so much!

When you 1st said 'Adventure Collection' I thought of the 'Adventure' time of year from looking at the DVC points charts and was like "I can't use my points in the Value seasons!?!" I was so confused. LOL

 

[Cajun28]

That's okay, you're way ahead of the pack of prospective buyers just to have found the DIS and begun to ask intelligent questions.

Can't agree more, Jim. 90% of what I know about DVC, I learned right here on the DIS from you and all of the other knowledgeable posters here!

 

[rusafee1183]

So, can someone walk me through what a typical process would be like if we decided to buy re-sale?

I contact the company, we decide whiat will work for us and then what? Can I finance with them? (Even though from what I hear it's more difficult to get financed through them then through Disney)

Then what? How long does this typical process take?

 

[Cajun28]

So, can someone walk me through what a typical process would be like if we decided to buy re-sale?

I contact the company, we decide whiat will work for us and then what? Can I finance with them? (Even though from what I hear it's more difficult to get financed through them then through Disney)

Then what? How long does this typical process take?

We went through "Those who shall not be named" for both of our resales. Maybe we should call them "Voldemort" (Those familiar with Harry Potter will catch the reference.) That being said, I would have had no problem using TTS, but they didn't have anything available for us at that time.

First I contacted them and TTS to see what was available and "Voldemort" had a contract we were interested in. We made an offer over the phone and within a day we had settled on a price with the sellers. The broker then sent me the contract to sign and fax back. I sent a deposit of $500 and contract was sent to ROFR. I think ROFR took apprx 3 weeks for both of our resales. After ROFR, we received closing documents to sign and return along with wire transferring the balance to the closing company. After closing it took about 7 days to be in the DVC system. The whole process took approx 7 weeks. We began the process on 9/23 and closed on 11/8, then another week for our points to be available.

Sorry, I can't answer your question concerning financing since I paid cash for both of our resale contracts.

ETA - I bought my first resale almost 4 years ago, so the timeframe may be different now.

 

[rusafee1183]

Maybe we should call them "Voldemort"

I was wondering why that happened!! I thought I posted the link wong and then I noticed the sponsor at the top and then --->

 

[Cajun28]

I was wondering why that happened!! I thought I posted the link wong and then I noticed the sponsor at the top and then --->

Yea, I always wondered why we can't mention their names, but GMAC and now Fidelity are mentioned all the time. But, hey, it's not my boards and I don't make the rules.

Good luck in your journey!

 

[mjc2003]

So, can someone walk me through what a typical process would be like if we decided to buy re-sale?

I contact the company, we decide whiat will work for us and then what? Can I finance with them? (Even though from what I hear it's more difficult to get financed through them then through Disney)

Then what? How long does this typical process take?

You can get financing through the resale companies, they use a 3rd party but the rates are quite steep. If you contact any of them, they can detail what the financing would look like.
The process is quite easy, just some paperwork back and forth and a lot of (impatient) waiting.

Jim did an excellent job summarizing the different "Collections". As an example, Grand Floridian is part of the Disney Collection. Out of curiosity I checked how many points it would be for a week in a regular room there, garden view (their lowest price room). It was 394 points. 394 points can get you a 12 person grand villa at Old Key West for 7 nights, and you'd have points left over (during the same November timeframe I was looking at Grand Floridian). 394 points gets you a 2 BR and a Studio at Beach Club for a week, or a 2 BR and a 1 BR at Boardwalk for a week. Heck, you could stay in most studios for 3-4 weeks for that many points!
So you can see how some of these scenarios often are not cost effective.

 

[JimMIA]

I was wondering why that happened!! I thought I posted the link wong and then I noticed the sponsor at the top and then --->

Why would you tink u posted it "wong?"

No seriously...usually, something being ********* out means it didn't pass through the DIS word filters.

Most of the time, the word filter catches bad words...like ****, for example. If a person's name, screen name, or the name of a business gets ***'d out, it's normally because that person/business has violated some DIS policy. Many think it's because they are a competitor of a sponsor, but I have never known that to be the case.

I have no idea what that violation might be in "Voldemort's" case, but it's usually a policy-violation problem -- not a poster making a topographical misteak.

 

[JimMIA]

So, can someone walk me through what a typical process would be like if we decided to buy re-sale?

I contact the company, we decide whiat will work for us and then what? Can I finance with them? (Even though from what I hear it's more difficult to get financed through them then through Disney)

Then what? How long does this typical process take?

Normally, the process is that you figure out a few things, and then you make an offer through a broker. The things you need to figure out are:

• The number of points you need...which will be determined by how often you realistically expect to visit, what size accommodations you need, the expected length of your stays, and where you want to stay most of the time.
• Which home resort you want.
• What Use Years (and there are multiple) would work for you.

Once you know what you want, you can look at the ROFR thread to get some idea of what people are actually paying for the type of contract you want. Obviously the listings are the seller's asking price, and that's a starting place for negotiations.

Once you know what you want and about what you want to pay, you start looking on resale sites for contracts that are "in the ballpark" for your needs. You have to look at each contract individually, because every one is going to be slightly different.

When you identify a particular contract that you want to buy and what you are willing to pay for it, you submit an offer through a broker. As part of that offer, you will place a deposit of anywhere between $500 and 20% or more of the total contract. That deposit is refundable if the seller rejects your offer, or the deal doesn't go through.

In response to your offer, you will receive one of the following:

• An acceptance
• A counter-offer with a change of price or terms (EVERYthing in a resale is negotiable.)
• No response, which would indicate that the owner is either brain-dead or they thought your offer was too low to negotiate with.

If the offer is accepted, the contract must be submitted to DVC for "ROFR," which means Right of First Refusal." DVC has the contractural right to intervene in any sale, taking the place of the buyer with exactly the same price and terms as the accepted offer.

Realistically...that ain't happening much anymore. There have only been a handful of contracts ROFR'd in that last year+.

For the ROFR process, plan on 30 days. It may be less, but that's gravy. From initial offer to closed and fully "in the system" and able to make reservations, plan on 6-8 weeks. Anything less than that is a bonus.

Financing -- Financing is expensive no matter who does it. Financing through DVC is roughly 11%-15 % depending on your credit rating. The Timeshare Store has a financing arrangement shown on their website (links at the top of the page), which is a little more than DVC financing. I don't know whether other resale brokers offer financing.

Once you clear ROFR, there will be a couple-week lag while the closing agent puts together all the legal documentation for the transfer, and you send in the balance of your payment. When the contract is closed, the deed is recorded in the county where the property is located (Orange Cty, FL for all WDW resorts) and then the documentaion goes to DVC to set up your account and transfer the points. Once the points are in your account, you can make reservations -- generally 7-14 days after closing.

 

[JimMIA]

In answer to your main question -- Should I buy resale or direct? -- I cannot come up with an intellectually-honest reason for a first-time buyer to purchase direct from DVC.

I have purchased both resale and direct, but that was then and this is now. Today, I would not even consider buying DVC direct. You will save 10% to 50% or more buying resale.

The only downside to resale these days is the time-consuming process. Okay...and you give up those "splendid" options discussed above.

My answer to the time issue is that if someone is fixated on making a reservation for an upcoming trip, they are being WAY too impatient and they're focusing on the wrong things.

My answer to the resale restrictions is if you're buying DVC for cruises and similar "collections," you're really making a BIG mistake.

Some will say they have to buy direct because they need the financing.

My answer is that if you need financing at 11%-15%, you might really want to reconsider whether you need this purchase. As reluctant as I am to presume to know what is best for an unknown family's financial situation, if someone wants to pay DOUBLE the price to get 11%-15% financiing, I really wonder about their decision-making process.

If a family really needs to finance, I would look at two options -- a home equity loan, and buying a smaller contract. Home equity will offer a MUCH lower interest rate. With banking and borrowing, you can manage a smaller contract to give you what you really need until you can afford to buy what you want. I would MUCH rather have too few points than too many...and be paying a high rate of interest to boot!

For anyone who must finance, I would seriously urge you to do some simple math. Multiply the amount of your payments times the number of months on the contract, and then add that to your deposit, down payment, closing and other costs. That's the true cost of your financed purchase. Is the purchase worth that much to your family?

And don't give me any of that "we'll pay it off early" junk...no matter how many times you've actually paid something off early. If you do, that's gravy; it's not something you bank on or use for realistic evaluations.

Resale does require more time and effort, but the monetary savings are simply too great to ignore.

Resale is a no-brainer for me, but others will have different opinions. There might be some weird special situations (existing owner buying a 25-point add-on at BLT...possibly), but IN GENERAL, I think resale is the way to go.

And finally, I have bought both direct and resale, and I have both bought and sold with The Timeshare Store -- the sponsor of these DVC boards. I just can't say enough about TTS' knowledge, responsive service, business ethics, and professionalism. I recommend them highly.

 

[nunzia]

Can't agree more, Jim. 90% of what I know about DVC, I learned right here on the DIS from you and all of the other knowledgeable posters here!

Ditto!! Just an amazing resource.

 

[ljcrochet]

When you identify a particular contract that you want to buy and what you are willing to pay for it, you submit an offer through a broker. As part of that offer, you will place a deposit of anywhere between $500 and 20% or more of the total contract. That deposit is refundable if the seller rejects your offer, or the deal doesn't go through.

We are in the process of buying a resale, in our case DH emailed back one of the resale companies asking them what they had for the resort we wanted in our use year. They got back to us with a list from c-operating broker. We found one we liked on that list and made an offer.
We offered $15 less per point and Buyer and seller to split closing costs and Seller to pay membership fees. Seller came back with if that we had to pay Aug. - Dec. dues at closing.
At this point we got the contract to sign. We did not have to pay the deposit untill we got the signed contract from the seller emailed to us. The deposit was 10% or $1,000 (whichever is higher). Once the contract wass signed it went to disney for ROFR. (made the offer on May 18(at night), got the contract on May 20th. DH had something changed in the contract, we had a revised contract on May 21. Contracts signed and sent to ROFR on May 24. Said it could take 30 day.

 

[Dean]

Unless one is bent on buying a resort or option they can't get unless you buy from DVC, I cannot think of a reason to buy retail. The options lost currently with resale are not reasonable for members to use anyway, they are doing you a favor by removing them from your options and giving you a slightly lower price. As for financing, there is one company that will do it for resale timeshares but it's expensive, as is DVC financing. IMO, if one can't afford to buy DVC without financing it, they can't afford it. I'd save up the money and buy resale, even if you end up buying less points than you think you need. Even if one were bent on BLT, it's unlikely they'd stay there all the time so buying resale and then adding a few BLT points is still the best choice for many.