Congress concerned over MagicBand security issues..

[MickeyMinnieMom]

But for posts from people saying that because Disney has always had a good track record...you might give them some leeway on that, but they ARE a corporation, where the people in charge change, and you cannot always trust simply based on the past.

What the company's track record should earn them, at a minimum, is a first communication in private. Not a public spectacle.

And most people here are NOT discussing party politics in the least. This thread is about a congressman's action -- it is, by definition, political. That seems pretty uncontroversial. As is questioning a politician's motives as possibly being political.

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[MickeyMinnieMom]

Department of Homeland Security:
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/privacy/privacy_advcom_rpt_rfid_draft.pdf

"Recommendation: RFID Should be Disfavored for Human Tracking"

This document is highly critical of RFID for human tracking, and many of the safeguards (such as being able to turn off the device; and to provide shielding) Disney is not providing with the MagicBand".

To be clear: Only that first partial sentence above is a direct quote from the document you linked, right?

In FULL CONTEXT, this doc says RFID should be "disfavored" for human tracking UNLESS certain privacy safeguards are put in place. (and btw, it discussed whether Dept. Homeland Security should be tracking people using this technology...)

Do you really think it's to Disney's benefit NOT to have proper privacy safeguards in place as they say they will??


ETA: Read pp 12-13, best practices for those employing RFID technologies -- it reads like much of the info Disney has released in its FAQ and elsewhere. Make it opt-in, provide ability to easily "kill" any lost devices, etc.

Obviously Disney was well aware of this doc -- and very likely any other best practices to follow. No wonder Iger's response had the tone it did -- their released info explicitly follows the DHS guidelines!!!

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[doconeill]

Yes, one question is answered and in the process another prediction proved wrong:




Just one of many of the failed "prophesies" that will not come to pass when the whole My Magic + initiative is rolled out in full.

Actually, no, it doesn't prove me wrong - even though at the time I posted it, I was joking.

In the first paragraph in the attachement, it says (paraphrased because it's an image) MyMagic+ is completely optional - but guests who choose not to use it would not have access to its features, including "guaranteed ride times for shows and attractions". Sounds like FastPass+ to me.

What the company's track record should earn them, at a minimum, is a first communication in private. Not a public spectacle.

Didn't I say that?

 

[doconeill]

You can look at the technical details here:

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/repo...lledFromFrame=N&application_id=427834&fcc_id=

I read those details. They don't specify the range, only that there are two passive RFID chips, one at HF band and one at a UHF band.

HF is common in passive devices, and has a range of about 1 meter.

UHF can be used with active tags and be read at 100 meters, but it needs to be powered.

Passive UHF is at a different frequency and range is typically 1-2 meters, so not much different than HF.

Not sure why they have the two, other than for potential redundancy.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Didn't I say that?

Absolutely -- and we're in agreement there!

 

[linzbear]

Actually, no, it doesn't prove me wrong - even though at the time I posted it, I was joking.

In the first paragraph in the attachement, it says (paraphrased because it's an image) MyMagic+ is completely optional - but guests who choose not to use it would not have access to its features, including "guaranteed ride times for shows and attractions". Sounds like FastPass+ to me.

Didn't I say that?

I can't multi quote (on my phone), but I posted a few pages ago a quote from the attachment that includes a statement on RFID FastPass for those with cards and not bands.

 

[doconeill]

I can't multi quote (on my phone), but I posted a few pages ago a quote from the attachment that includes a statement on RFID FastPass for those with cards and not bands.

We are talking about two different things. One is to opt out of MyMagic+ completely, the other is to opt for the RFID card instead of a MagicBand.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

This link says it contains both attachments (haven't read it yet myself):

http://www.**************.net/2013/...letter-addressing-magicband-privacy-concerns/

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Just found the full, transcribed text from letter & attachments on http://coreplex.blogspot.com/2013/01/bob-igers-response-to-rep-ed-markey.html:

January 28, 2013
The Honorable Edward Markey
2108 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515

Congressman Markey:

For 90 years, Disney has been synonymous with high-quality entertainment for families and children of all ages. We use creativity, innovation and technology to create memorable moments and experiences for our hundreds of millions of customers and guests. And, as you well know, Disney’s record and commitment to children’s safety and security and the protection of their privacy is exemplary. People around the world trust Disney and its products. That trust is the cornerstone of our company, and we take it very seriously.
We are offended by the ludicrous and utterly ill-informed assertion in your letter dated January 24, 2013, that we would in any way haphazardly or recklessly introduce a program that manipulates children, or wantonly puts their safety at risk.

It is truly unfortunate and extremely disappointing that you chose to publicity attack us before taking the time to review our policies and/or contact us for information, which would have obviated the need for your letter. Had you or your staff made the slightest effort, you would have found most of the answers to your questions already existed and were publically available online at http://corporate.disney.go.com/corporate/pp.html and https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/faq/my-disney-experience/privacy-policy/

In the enclosed attachment, we address the questions in your letter about our new, yet-to-be-launched program, MyMagic+. However, to ensure that you fully understand our practices as they pertain to children, and our commitment to our guests’ privacy, let me be clear and reiterate the basic facts.

MyMagic+ is a completely optional program that was designed with the privacy controls from the outset. Disney does not use personal information to market to children under age 13, does not personalize or target advertisements to an individual child, and never shares children’s personal information with any third party for their marketing purposes. Additionally, parents have full control over their child’s participation in MyMagic+. We have transparent privacy practices, guests can control and limit the amount of information they provide to us – and how their information is used.

Further details are attached.

Sincerely,
(signature)
Robert A Iger

(Begin Addendum)

MyMagic+ is a completely optional program
Guests can enjoy admission to the park without having to register or provide any personal information. But guests who do choose to participate in MyMagic+ will enjoy the convenience of having their tickets, guaranteed ride times for shows and attractions, resort room access and other enhanced features all in one place. Using MagicBands or cards for purchases is also optional.

MyMagic+ was designed with privacy controls from the outset

The hallmarks of privacy by design are transparency and customer control, and these are central to Disney’s overall privacy policies and practices, which can be found at http://corporate.disney.go.com/corporate/pp.html

Disney does not use personal information to market to children under age 13
Disney does not personalize or target advertisements to an individual child
Disney never shares children’s personal information with any third party for their marketing purposes
Parents have full control over their child’s participation in MyMagic+

Parents control whether or not their child participates in MyMagic+, how much information is shared with us, what experiences the child will engage in and whether they use a MagicBand at all. Children cannot create individual registration accounts for MyMagic+.

Parents decide whether to provide information about their child’s preferences (such as favorite character or favorite color) for personalized services. These personalized services are also optional.
No matter what the parent decides, Disney does not use personal information to market to children under age 13 and does not personal or target advertising to individual children. Furthermore, we never share children’s personal information with any third party for their marketing purposes.

Disney has transparent privacy practices

Information about the privacy practices associated with the MagicBand is available in multiple locations. Even though the program has not been launched yet, specific information about MyMagic+ and the MagicBand is already available to guests at https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/faq/my-disney-experience/privacy-policy and available for their review before they decide whether to participate. Additional information about other aspects of the enhanced guest experiences can be found at
https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/login
https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/

Consistent with best practices, when the MagicBand becomes available to our guests we will once again provide the guests with full notice about the information that will be collected by the MagicBand. At that time, the guest can elect to use a card instead, as described more fully below.

Guests can control and limit the amount of personal information they provide to us

Guests who participate in MyMagic+ only provide basic contact information: name, email, address and date of birth. Guests would also provide the name and age of other members of their travel party participating in the program. This information is used to establish the account the guests will use to participate in the program, and is consistent with both practices utilized by the hospitality and travel industries for guest registration and what our resort guests provide today. MyMagic+ participants provide any additional information only at their option.

Guests control how their information is used

Guest's personal data is not stored in the MagicBand. The MagicBand is not GPS-based and does not enable collection of continuous location signals. The long-range readers which detect the MagicBands will be in specific locations for the purpose of providing better service to our guests.

Guests can participate in MyMagic+ and visit the park without using the MagicBand by choosing a card instead. The card contains a short-range chip whose location cannot be detected by the long-range readers stationed in the park. We also plan to provide the option for such guests to use the Fast Pass [sic] system by simply providing basic contact information (name and email address). As is also true for parties using MyMagic+, the system would not require separate email addresses for other members of the guest party.

We will not share location information collected in connection with the MagicBand throughout The Walt Disney Company without the consent of the guest.

As is always the case at Disney, guests participating in MyMagic+ can choose not to receive marketing information from us. MyMagic+ also allows guests to receive offers and tips during their visit to the Walt Disney World parks and resorts, but only if they request them from us.

As described in the Disney privacy policy found at http://corporate.disney.go.com/corporate/pp.html guests can ask us to amend or delete personal information we may hold about them.

 

[donaldlovesdaisy]

The marketing images provided by Disney that the NY Times included as its photograph was a close-up of a little girls hand wearing a designer MagicBand. Another image is of a little girl using a designer MagicBand at (presumably) the Jungle Cruise FP+ reader. A significant plurality of the images presented to date are of children using this service.

These are not the basic "free" MagicBands but the upgrade versions that you pay extra for. Disney is clearly trying to make them look like a desirable fashion accessory; and it would seem to me that this would mostly attract children. It would seem to me hard to justify purchasing an upgraded MagicBand if you weren't considering them as a permanent souvenier for your child or yourself.

But, Disney then has marketed to you (through making something appealing to your child) a device that contains 1 short range passive RFID, one long range passive RFID, and 1 long range active RFID/wifi transsceiver that you or your child might quite likely wear outside of the parks. Now it is true that only Disney has access to the information you have given them associated with the RFID serial numbers. *BUT* the unique RFID serial numbers can be read by any commonly available RFID reader. And Disney cannot control just who buys those readers. Or for that matter Disney might sell compatible readers themselves (Iger hasn't said). So suppose Universal (or anyone else) wanted to market to you based on your families Disney's MagicBands you were wearing or had in your pockets. You use your Universal cards or say even your credit cards. These may/do have your name. So its a trivial matter for a 3rd party then to just create a database with the MagicBand RFID by matching the 2 pieces of information - your MagicBand RFID serial number they are reading without your knowledge AND your name that you have just given them. OR maybe you gave them your cell phone number. And opted in. So now suddenly you are getting marketing texts and emails based on how you were moving around in Orlando. None of this 3rd party use of your MagicBand serial #s would be controllable by Disney. But it would be entirely feasible - AND quite possibly profiitable - to piggyback on to the Disney RFID system. Disney did not, and has not provided any information about how the RFID location ability in the band secure against 3rd parties reading them to use or misuse - they have focused on how the Disney information associated is secure. Focusing only on that shows a lack of imagination (or willful blindness).

Then if your that uncomfortable with your child having it simply tell them no. Who cares if Disney is marketing it your child or if all the other kids have it you in the end are the parent . What is not fair is because some might not be comfortable with it little girls whose parents are comfortable with it can't have the fabulous stylish bravely Disney is marketing jt as.

 

[jason10mm]

TL;DR, but if they MagicPass+ me they will simply see a need for WAY more beer kiosks, Star Wars and Indiana Jones attractions, far larger Germany and England showcases, and more Ariel, Jasmine, and Pocahantas meet and greets

 

[dadddio]

Actually the new kttw cards are RFID, since you can "tap to pay" or "tap to open door" etc. Which is why the current guests can get in the new turnstiles and open their doors with the new non-swipe locks. The advantage to the wristbands is space for an active transmitter so they can be read at greater distances, say, 4 meters. That allows for the character and ride interactions. Here is a link to a random RFID sales site. No recommendation but at least the info is in English.
http://www.rfidwristband.com/custom-rewearable-rfid-wristbands/

Perhaps the chipped KTTW cards are the 'cards' that Iger referred to in his letter.

 

[doconeill]

Perhaps the chipped KTTW cards are the 'cards' that Iger referred to in his letter.

They indeed are. They originally started by slapping an RFID sticker on to the cards, but I believe they are embedded now.

Whether they will use the same cards for non-resort guests, or a sticker or other cheap alternative we don't know yet. Much further down the line.

 

[bauer1168]

I see Iger has responded to the concerns. Interesting language he has used in response.

 

[dadddio]

I don't have a problem with them using security cameras, security guards/undercover security ect. However, for me personally, there is something so "big brother" about these new magic bands. If they install the readers everywhere, they would literally know where and when I'm going to the bathroom, if I went into one of their shops and how long I was there. It wont necessarily stop me from going to WDW (although FP+ might get us to reconsider our yearly visits) however I wish they gave you another choice. To say it's an opt out system isn't fair because they basically penalize you for not having the band.

My major issue with this is that I personally feel that they aren't doing this simply to make a guests time in the parks better, they are using this as a marketing tool and possibly other things that will never know. They haven't invested this money so that people will "feel" better and buy an extra balloon.

I'm confused. Your one problem with the bands was addressed in Iger's response. The readers won't be everywhere and certainly won't be located at the restrooms. Further, if you don't want any of the non-touch readers to pick you up, all you have to do is use the card instead of the band or opt out of the things that trouble you.

 

[Here4mydisneyfix]

I tried searching over and over, and cannot for the life of me, find anywhere on the Dis if this is an appropriate topic or not, so please forgive me if it isn't. This is a comment and a personal opinion my husband made. Last night I was explaining this whole Magic band thing to him (for the record I think it sounds neat!), and he said that he thinks that having a single device that serves as your entertainment, your money, your keys, your photopass...in other words, a device that basically does everything, AND that tracks you, sure sounds a lot like the scary bad beast mark! I hadn't thought about that at all...I like the sound of the Magic Band for convenience and the new technology sounds pretty darn cool too. I LOVE the idea of being submersed in the magic the WHOLE time!! I know others are worried about the security of the system, but I hadn't heard this take on it before, so I wanted to share...I do know that Disney is nowhere near the first company to do RFID stuff though, so hmmmm.

All that being said, I know that everyone has WAY different beliefs in this area, so please take this with a grain of salt. I just wanted to share the view of a "non-disney freak" (giggle) outsider. Aka hubby. lol

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I tried searching over and over, and cannot for the life of me, find anywhere on the Dis if this is an appropriate topic or not, so please forgive me if it isn't. This is a comment and a personal opinion my husband made. Last night I was explaining this whole Magic band thing to him (for the record I think it sounds neat!), and he said that he thinks that having a single device that serves as your entertainment, your money, your keys, your photopass...in other words, a device that basically does everything, AND that tracks you, sure sounds a lot like the scary bad beast mark!

Mark of the beast... there's one I never thought of! Yet with Beauty and the Beast, I sense a marketing opportunity...

 

[Here4mydisneyfix]

Mark of the beast... there's one I never thought of! Yet with Beauty and the Beast, I sense a marketing opportunity...

GOOD one!! Just GO with the themeing and everyone will dig it! bwahahaha!

 

[dadddio]

I'm being penalized if I opt out of the magic band because they have already said if you don't have a band, you can't participate in FP+ (a major issue once regular FP goes away) Photopass (since they are doing away with the cards eventually). So while it is an opt out system, it would mean you can't participate in several things that we have used in the past and actually make a huge different to touring the parks.

If you choose the cards instead of the bands, you will still have FP+ access. You would also be able to participate in PP.

 

[Mom2six]

I haven't read all 20 pages...but I have seen concern that Disney or others will market to you based on your actions/preferences. I'm not sure why that is a problem? You are constantly being marketed to anyway - wouldn't you rather that marketing make sense for you? It's like people would be offended if Disney knew they liked Star Wars and hated Princesses so they tried to sell you Darth Vader merchandise and not Princess merchandise. Maybe I'm missing something?

With the thousands and thousands of people that go through Disney World each day, I just don't see anyone sitting around in an office paying attention to what precisely you are up to - I think that info like how long you are in a restroom and how often you stop at a restaurant will be complied as big numbers, not as individuals. Knowing the patterns that take place can only increase guest satisfaction.

Also, I would love it if the characters greeted my children by name! My older children know not to trust strangers even if they talk to them by name, and my children aren't left alone until they do. (We use a password - you don't go with anyone else without the password period.) If the characters even knew that they saw my child yesterday at Epcot, that would be awesome. More Disney magic.

 

[dadddio]

The marketing images provided by Disney that the NY Times included as its photograph was a close-up of a little girls hand wearing a designer MagicBand. Another image is of a little girl using a designer MagicBand at (presumably) the Jungle Cruise FP+ reader. A significant plurality of the images presented to date are of children using this service.

These are not the basic "free" MagicBands but the upgrade versions that you pay extra for. Disney is clearly trying to make them look like a desirable fashion accessory; and it would seem to me that this would mostly attract children. It would seem to me hard to justify purchasing an upgraded MagicBand if you weren't considering them as a permanent souvenier for your child or yourself.

But, Disney then has marketed to you (through making something appealing to your child) a device that contains 1 short range passive RFID, one long range passive RFID, and 1 long range active RFID/wifi transsceiver that you or your child might quite likely wear outside of the parks.

I'm pretty sure that the long range RFID and RFID/wifi transceiver are the same item. I'm pretty sure that there is no such thing as a long range passive RFID.

Now it is true that only Disney has access to the information you have given them associated with the RFID serial numbers. *BUT* the unique RFID serial numbers can be read by any commonly available RFID reader. And Disney cannot control just who buys those readers. Or for that matter Disney might sell compatible readers themselves (Iger hasn't said). So suppose Universal (or anyone else) wanted to market to you based on your families Disney's MagicBands you were wearing or had in your pockets. You use your Universal cards or say even your credit cards. These may/do have your name. So its a trivial matter for a 3rd party then to just create a database with the MagicBand RFID by matching the 2 pieces of information - your MagicBand RFID serial number they are reading without your knowledge AND your name that you have just given them. OR maybe you gave them your cell phone number. And opted in. So now suddenly you are getting marketing texts and emails based on how you were moving around in Orlando. None of this 3rd party use of your MagicBand serial #s would be controllable by Disney. But it would be entirely feasible - AND quite possibly profiitable - to piggyback on to the Disney RFID system. Disney did not, and has not provided any information about how the RFID location ability in the band secure against 3rd parties reading them to use or misuse - they have focused on how the Disney information associated is secure. Focusing only on that shows a lack of imagination (or willful blindness).

You are surmising that Universal or someone else is going to develop an opt-in database to market to magic band wearers. Frankly, I think that this is about as unlikely as can be. Further, as unlikely as it is, I'm not sue why anyone would have a problem with this. If you didn't want to opt in, just don't.