Congress concerned over MagicBand security issues..

[Disney_Princess83]

I still can't figure out why people have a problem with a company knowing where someone is when he/she visits their business.

I don't have a problem with them using security cameras, security guards/undercover security ect. However, for me personally, there is something so "big brother" about these new magic bands. If they install the readers everywhere, they would literally know where and when I'm going to the bathroom, if I went into one of their shops and how long I was there. It wont necessarily stop me from going to WDW (although FP+ might get us to reconsider our yearly visits) however I wish they gave you another choice. To say it's an opt out system isn't fair because they basically penalize you for not having the band.

My major issue with this is that I personally feel that they aren't doing this simply to make a guests time in the parks better, they are using this as a marketing tool and possibly other things that will never know. They haven't invested this money so that people will "feel" better and buy an extra balloon.

 

[Granny square]

I don't have a problem with them using security cameras, security guards/undercover security ect. However, for me personally, there is something so "big brother" about these new magic bands. If they install the readers everywhere, they would literally know where and when I'm going to the bathroom, if I went into one of their shops and how long I was there. It wont necessarily stop me from going to WDW (although FP+ might get us to reconsider our yearly visits) however I wish they gave you another choice. To say it's an opt out system isn't fair because they basically penalize you for not having the band.

My major issue with this is that I personally feel that they aren't doing this simply to make a guests time in the parks better, they are using this as a marketing tool and possibly other things that will never know. They haven't invested this money so that people will "feel" better and buy an extra balloon.

Of course it is business. They are in the business of making money. Although I don't think their motives are nefarious!

It is what is is. Big brother or no there is always someone studying your behavior and trying to benefit. I don't see this as any different. The fact they bribe you to participate isn't penalizing those that don't. The fact that my grocery sends me free egg coupons because I buy tons and it gets me in there is no different. Someone else isn't being penalized.

I do hate them mucking with the fp system though. :/

 

[Disney_Princess83]

Of course it is business. They are in the business of making money. Although I don't think their motives are nefarious!

It is what is is. Big brother or no there is always someone studying your behavior and trying to benefit. I don't see this as any different. The fact they bribe you to participate isn't penalizing those that don't. The fact that my grocery sends me free egg coupons because I buy tons and it gets me in there is no different. Someone else isn't being penalized.

I do hate them mucking with the fp system though. :/

I'm being penalized if I opt out of the magic band because they have already said if you don't have a band, you can't participate in FP+ (a major issue once regular FP goes away) Photopass (since they are doing away with the cards eventually). So while it is an opt out system, it would mean you can't participate in several things that we have used in the past and actually make a huge different to touring the parks.

 

[Granny square]

I'm being penalized if I opt out of the magic band because they have already said if you don't have a band, you can't participate in FP+ (a major issue once regular FP goes away) Photopass (since they are doing away with the cards eventually). So while it is an opt out system, it would mean you can't participate in several things that we have used in the past and actually make a huge different to touring the parks.

If you choose not to get a photopass you don't get the pictures. Sucky as they are. Same with the magic band. It isn't a penalty, it is a choice to use the available technology. We bought a talking mickey many years back and got extras for doing so. People who didn't buy didn't get the extras. You buy/ participate and you get extras.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I'm sure it'll be somewhere on the web if it isn't already -- clunky to try to search on my phone.

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This link says it contains both attachments (haven't read it yet myself):

http://www.**************.net/2013/...letter-addressing-magicband-privacy-concerns/

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[MickeyMinnieMom]

If you choose not to get a photopass you don't get the pictures. Sucky as they are. Same with the magic band. It isn't a penalty, it is a choice to use the available technology. We bought a talking mickey many years back and got extras for doing so. People who didn't buy didn't get the extras. You buy/ participate and you get extras.

Exactly! Some aspects of a Disney vacation have changed -- period -- just like experiences buying goods almost anywhere, making a bank deposit at a machine, using a cell to make calls, etc.

It's up to you whether or not to participate. Life is about choices. Conduct your own cost/benefit analysis and make one.

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[MickeyMinnieMom]

By being so flippant, Iger *created news and drew attention to controversial views*. Sure, many will agree with him. But many more of those who would not be so inclined to trust the word of the Mouse will be made aware of the story.

Anyway, Iger pretty much guaranteed that from now on the press will call the initiative:

"Disney's controversial MyMagic+/MagicBand"

Stupid.

I see your point, but Markey was already trying to make hay out of this -- trying to stir up controversy, being loud and public about his "concerns" (which again, if sincere, he'd be going after other companies already employing the technology AND marketing to children).

Iger responded with a tone that I think many would find justified -- Markey was ill-informed in at least some of his posed questions, it was ridiculous to do this publicly as a first communication, Disney does have a stellar reputation, etc.

I wouldn't be entirely surprised if this backfires on Markey in his desperate attempt to get attention paid to him in the hopes of running for senate! THAT would be justice in my book!

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[pouncingpluto]

Exactly. It clearly states that it wont tailor marketing to an individual child however it doesn't say it wont market to ANY individual. It makes no mention of the fact they might tailor marketing to the parents.

They were tracking the 13+ language of COPPA (which still doesnt really apply in this offline context). There is nothing legally wrong with targeting marketing to adults. Some people might not like it, but there is no legal hook there the way there could conceivably be for kids under thirteen.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

It was a great response - (although not really exemplary for Disney employees).

I agree on the first part. But there's nothing UN-Disney in Iger's response. Markey is not a parks guest unhappy with his room, with Iger coming along to do damage control and make the guest happy. He's a politician trying to use Disney's name to his own ends (publicity for senate race). As head of the company, Iger wears many hats... staunchly defending the company is one of them, and IMHO he met a ridiculous letter with an appropriately harsh response.

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[linzbear]

This link says it contains both attachments (haven't read it yet myself):

http://www.**************.net/2013/...letter-addressing-magicband-privacy-concerns/

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Great find!

"Guests can participate in MyMagic+ and visit the park without using the MagicBand by choosing a card instead. The card contains a short-range chip whose location cannot be detected by the long-range readers stationed in the park. We also plan to provide the option for such guests to use the Fast Pass system by simply providing basic contact information (name and email address). As is also true for parties using MyMagic+, the system would not require separate email addresses for other members of the guest's party."

And cheers were heard all throughout the disboards.

 

[SaraJayne]

Completely optional...as long as you don't want a FastPass+

 

[Superspectral]

The marketing images provided by Disney that the NY Times included as its photograph was a close-up of a little girls hand wearing a designer MagicBand. Another image is of a little girl using a designer MagicBand at (presumably) the Jungle Cruise FP+ reader. A significant plurality of the images presented to date are of children using this service.

These are not the basic "free" MagicBands but the upgrade versions that you pay extra for. Disney is clearly trying to make them look like a desirable fashion accessory; and it would seem to me that this would mostly attract children. It would seem to me hard to justify purchasing an upgraded MagicBand if you weren't considering them as a permanent souvenier for your child or yourself.

But, Disney then has marketed to you (through making something appealing to your child) a device that contains 1 short range passive RFID, one long range passive RFID, and 1 long range active RFID/wifi transsceiver that you or your child might quite likely wear outside of the parks. Now it is true that only Disney has access to the information you have given them associated with the RFID serial numbers. *BUT* the unique RFID serial numbers can be read by any commonly available RFID reader. And Disney cannot control just who buys those readers. Or for that matter Disney might sell compatible readers themselves (Iger hasn't said). So suppose Universal (or anyone else) wanted to market to you based on your families Disney's MagicBands you were wearing or had in your pockets. You use your Universal cards or say even your credit cards. These may/do have your name. So its a trivial matter for a 3rd party then to just create a database with the MagicBand RFID by matching the 2 pieces of information - your MagicBand RFID serial number they are reading without your knowledge AND your name that you have just given them. OR maybe you gave them your cell phone number. And opted in. So now suddenly you are getting marketing texts and emails based on how you were moving around in Orlando. None of this 3rd party use of your MagicBand serial #s would be controllable by Disney. But it would be entirely feasible - AND quite possibly profiitable - to piggyback on to the Disney RFID system. Disney did not, and has not provided any information about how the RFID location ability in the band secure against 3rd parties reading them to use or misuse - they have focused on how the Disney information associated is secure. Focusing only on that shows a lack of imagination (or willful blindness).

 

[shademan]

I think Congress needs to stay out of Disney's business. I think after decades and decades, Disney has proven that they don't have any nefarious intents with their information. After all, I've been putting my kids name in when I buy packages on the website for years. What's the big deal?

 

[Disney_Princess83]

Thank you! Wonderfully put!

The marketing images provided by Disney that the NY Times included as its photograph was a close-up of a little girls hand wearing a designer MagicBand. Another image is of a little girl using a designer MagicBand at (presumably) the Jungle Cruise FP+ reader. A significant plurality of the images presented to date are of children using this service.

These are not the basic "free" MagicBands but the upgrade versions that you pay extra for. Disney is clearly trying to make them look like a desirable fashion accessory; and it would seem to me that this would mostly attract children. It would seem to me hard to justify purchasing an upgraded MagicBand if you weren't considering them as a permanent souvenier for your child or yourself.

But, Disney then has marketed to you (through making something appealing to your child) a device that contains 1 short range passive RFID, one long range passive RFID, and 1 long range active RFID/wifi transsceiver that you or your child might quite likely wear outside of the parks. Now it is true that only Disney has access to the information you have given them associated with the RFID serial numbers. *BUT* the unique RFID serial numbers can be read by any commonly available RFID reader. And Disney cannot control just who buys those readers. Or for that matter Disney might sell compatible readers themselves (Iger hasn't said). So suppose Universal (or anyone else) wanted to market to you based on your families Disney's MagicBands you were wearing or had in your pockets. You use your Universal cards or say even your credit cards. These may/do have your name. So its a trivial matter for a 3rd party then to just create a database with the MagicBand RFID by matching the 2 pieces of information - your MagicBand RFID serial number they are reading without your knowledge AND your name that you have just given them. OR maybe you gave them your cell phone number. And opted in. So now suddenly you are getting marketing texts and emails based on how you were moving around in Orlando. None of this 3rd party use of your MagicBand serial #s would be controllable by Disney. But it would be entirely feasible - AND quite possibly profiitable - to piggyback on to the Disney RFID system. Disney did not, and has not provided any information about how the RFID location ability in the band secure against 3rd parties reading them to use or misuse - they have focused on how the Disney information associated is secure. Focusing only on that shows a lack of imagination (or willful blindness).

 

[doconeill]

The marketing images provided by Disney that the NY Times included as its photograph was a close-up of a little girls hand wearing a designer MagicBand. Another image is of a little girl using a designer MagicBand at (presumably) the Jungle Cruise FP+ reader. A significant plurality of the images presented to date are of children using this service.

These are not the basic "free" MagicBands but the upgrade versions that you pay extra for. Disney is clearly trying to make them look like a desirable fashion accessory; and it would seem to me that this would mostly attract children. It would seem to me hard to justify purchasing an upgraded MagicBand if you weren't considering them as a permanent souvenier for your child or yourself.

But, Disney then has marketed to you (through making something appealing to your child) a device that contains 1 short range passive RFID, one long range passive RFID, and 1 long range active RFID/wifi transsceiver that you or your child might quite likely wear outside of the parks. Now it is true that only Disney has access to the information you have given them associated with the RFID serial numbers. *BUT* the unique RFID serial numbers can be read by any commonly available RFID reader. And Disney cannot control just who buys those readers. Or for that matter Disney might sell compatible readers themselves (Iger hasn't said). So suppose Universal (or anyone else) wanted to market to you based on your families Disney's MagicBands you were wearing or had in your pockets. You use your Universal cards or say even your credit cards. These may/do have your name. So its a trivial matter for a 3rd party then to just create a database with the MagicBand RFID by matching the 2 pieces of information - your MagicBand RFID serial number they are reading without your knowledge AND your name that you have just given them. OR maybe you gave them your cell phone number. And opted in. So now suddenly you are getting marketing texts and emails based on how you were moving around in Orlando. None of this 3rd party use of your MagicBand serial #s would be controllable by Disney. But it would be entirely feasible - AND quite possibly profiitable - to piggyback on to the Disney RFID system. Disney did not, and has not provided any information about how the RFID location ability in the band secure against 3rd parties reading them to use or misuse - they have focused on how the Disney information associated is secure. Focusing only on that shows a lack of imagination (or willful blindness).

A third party betting on customers bringing RFID/transmitter devices with them to other places would be spending a lot of money for little payoff. Might as well just go to the same system. And if they do, they'd also have to have a information privacy policy in place.

I haven't seen anything about a long-range passive RFID chip being in the MagicBand either. It would be redundant with the transmitter.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

A third party betting on customers bringing RFID/transmitter devices with them to other places would be spending a lot of money for little payoff. Might as well just go to the same system. And if they do, they'd also have to have a information privacy policy in place.

Exactly. That makes no business sense whatsoever.

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[doconeill]

This link says it contains both attachments (haven't read it yet myself):

http://www.**************.net/2013/...letter-addressing-magicband-privacy-concerns/

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

And thus one question is answered.

You can opt out of the band for a card. The card is strictly a passive device. It will get you in, it can be used for FP+, and it can be used for room charges if you desire. It will not enable anything that requires the longer range transmitter, however, so you may lose out on some of the more personalized stuff.

This is likely the same card/ticket that non-resort guests will get by default.

I wonder if the "opting out" of MyMagic+ means they will have a non-RFID ticket option in the long term.

Also, in regards to my previous posts in this thread regarding what Disney _could_ do...it was purely hypothetical, and I believe because things were changing it made sense for Congress to ask. However, making it a public spectacle was not necessary was was purely for politics (NOTE: We tread a fine line discussing politics on the DIS...don't get too deep into it or the thread will be closed).

And when they intimated that Disney Infinity could be in some way integrated to MyMagic+, I think questions definitely should have been asked and answered in that regard.

But for posts from people saying that because Disney has always had a good track record...you might give them some leeway on that, but they ARE a corporation, where the people in charge change, and you cannot always trust simply based on the past.

 

[Superspectral]

A third party betting on customers bringing RFID/transmitter devices with them to other places would be spending a lot of money for little payoff. Might as well just go to the same system. And if they do, they'd also have to have a information privacy policy in place.

I haven't seen anything about a long-range passive RFID chip being in the MagicBand either. It would be redundant with the transmitter.

You can look at the technical details here:

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/repo...lledFromFrame=N&application_id=427834&fcc_id=

 

[UNCFanatik]

And thus one question is answered.

You can opt out of the band for a card. The card is strictly a passive device. It will get you in, it can be used for FP+, and it can be used for room charges if you desire. It will not enable anything that requires the longer range transmitter, however, so you may lose out on some of the more personalized stuff.

Yes, one question is answered and in the process another prediction proved wrong:

Completely optional...as long as you don't want a FastPass+

Just one of many of the failed "prophesies" that will not come to pass when the whole My Magic + initiative is rolled out in full.

 

[Superspectral]

Department of Homeland Security:
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/privacy/privacy_advcom_rpt_rfid_draft.pdf

"Recommendation: RFID Should be Disfavored for Human Tracking" This document is highly critical of RFID for human tracking, and many of the safeguards (such as being able to turn off the device; and to provide shielding) Disney is not providing with the MagicBand".

Canada:
http://www.ipc.on.ca/images/Resources/up-rfidgdlines.pdf

OECD:
http://www.oecd.org/sti/interneteconomy/40892347.pdf