Congrats to Magic Kingdom!!

[cakebaker]

So since you were conjecturing as to what those who saw a downturn might say if the Disney parks were at 1-4 then you meant just the one poster (and probably a few others that I've forgotten)? I guess that I didn't realize that.

In the spirit of discussion I stated my opinion. Sorry if I went off topic.

I'm not going to hunt through the entire thread- I went to the first page and picked up one of the 2 negative comments. There are plenty more. I'd like to see the examples of people who have stated that the results are bad because Disney wasn't #1. I don't believe there are any.

I'm assuming you think the previous poster who questioned people's motives before I did is simply conjecturing as well?

 

[cakebaker]

We all know the answer to that musing.

As much as we know the answer to mine-

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

We all know the answer to that musing.

Are you willing to share?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I think the word "profound" is throwing you. When #1 is 4.6 in approval and #3 is 4.55 (or whatever), a single (or very small number of) negative review(s) can have a significant (profound) impact on ordinal ranking. So all it takes is a few disgruntled dads who are peeved that they have to drag their kids around to a place they'd rather not be without the ability to get a beer and all of a sudden our favorite place slips behind a place we enjoy less. But if that other place escapes the wrath of the disgruntled dads, it wins. And I maintain that the dad I describe exists more at WDW than at IOA or Discovery Cove. And of course I am using "dads" broadly. Could be moms. Grandparents. Teens. Again, using wild generalizations here, picture a family coming to Florida and meeting up with the grandparents. Mom and dad pay for grandma and grandpa to hang out with them at a theme park for the day. Grandma and grandpa aren't in love with theme parks but decide to play along. Whose park is this family most likely to visit? Disney's or Universal's? And if grandma or grandpa decide to post a review on TA, whose park is going to get the 2 or 3 star review? When the results are this close, it doesn't take much to shift them. And I maintain that Disney is the unfortunate recipient of some people who are there under protest than any of its competitors.

It certainly is. But thank you for clarifying. I understand what you are saying better than I did at Midnight the other night.

As for grandma and grandpa--I guess that depends on if they prefer roller coasters and Harry Potter over some mountains and a Mouse.

 

[itchin2go]

Itchin2go called into question the motivation for the opinions some people posted in that if they have questions as to how these results came to be, that it may be because they don't like the results. I'm simply saying that perhaps those who take the results at face value and deem them credible and telling do so perhaps because they do like the results.

Speaking for me only, I do take the results at face value and they are credible ... for what they are. There is no ONE test for how a theme park is doing. There are lots of lists, lots of criteria, lots of opinions. This list is the amalgam of a lot of opinions of (what I think are, by and large) regular people. It's a snapshot of its own variety.

As has been said in this thread, just because a certain publication or website ranks something a certain way, doesn't mean I'll necessarily agree. And the truth is, (especially when you're dealing with a reputable website like TripAdvisor), neither is wrong or invalid. What's good for 90% of people may not be good for me.

As far as liking the results, I don't have a horse in the race, which is why I keep asking, why is this such a big deal? I have a trip planned to WDW in 2016, and don't have a trip planned to any of the other places. And reading the list hasn't made me change my mind about that, but it has made me think about some things.

Maybe I'm reading things wrong, but it *feels* like the list is threatening in some way to people, so they question the methodology, or offer reasons why the results may be invalid. What if the results are straight up valid? It doesn't change my plans or my opinions so it just doesn't feel threatening to me. It does make me want to look into some of the other parks. But our one and only 2016 vacation will be spent at WDW, with multiple days at the number 16 rated theme park ... happily so.

Edited to add: I don't know how much Disney cares about this. They can't be jumping for joy about it. If anything, selfishly, I hope any negative feedback will speed up plans for building new attractions, the re-inventing of DHS and finding a productive use for all the dead space in Future World. Those are things I would really like to see - preferably before my 2016 trip .

 

[jtowntoflorida]

Regardless of your own personal opinion on specific things, surveys and reviews and rankings ARE important to businesses. Maybe your personal opinion doesn't align with every outcome, but don't think for a second that results of things like this aren't important. If consumer opinions weren't important, then Trip Advisor (and its awards) wouldn't exist. Rotten Tomatoes wouldn't exist. Angie's List wouldn't exist. Disney sending out guest surveys wouldn't exist. Heck, one of the reasons why Amazon is so popular is because of the bounty of consumer opinions that it has amassed in one spot. Just because your opinion doesn't align with the majority doesn't mean that a particular result is completely off-base, especially when such a large sample is involved. The law of large numbers shows that a large sample is the absolute best way to legitimize a result. And THAT's why businesses find data like this important and helpful. And THAT's why businesses who win awards from sites like this brag it up.

 

[JimmyV]

Edited to add: I don't know how much Disney cares about this.

I know a lot of people in the hospitality business and they care about Trip Advisor reviews very very much. In fact, for some, it is the single most important thing that they care about in terms of guests feedback. They don't sit around musing about the scientific nature of the results or their legitimacy. They are what they are and they take great pains to improve upon anything they see in there that is negative. Now, none of these people own theme parks. So I do not know where Disney comes out on this. But I think it is safe to say that they are not writing it off as an unscientific compilation of reviews by people who don't know what they are talking about. As far as not being thrilled with the results, that is difficult to say, because #3 in the world is not a bad place to be. But #16 for Epcot has got to turn heads.

 

[cakebaker]

Maybe I'm reading things wrong, but it *feels* like the list is threatening in some way to people, so they question the methodology, or offer reasons why the results may be invalid.

And it *feels* like to me that some people think these results are an indictment of WDW, it confirms their negative opinions and they get very defensive when anyone dares to question how these results were obtained or how it is some just don't seem to make sense.

 

[cakebaker]

But #16 for Epcot has got to turn heads.

I would think DCA's ranking would worry them even more- having just beat out a Six Flags by 1 spot and being topped by Sea World. It's been a while since I've been to DCA, but I read an awful lot of posts with people raving about what a great place it is. Seems a bit odd.

I have no issues with the MK being ranked #3 as an amusement park. I think it's pretty good actually- combined with other things I've read, they seem to be doing just fine. I'm also not surprised at Epcot coming in so low as an amusement park. I'm pretty sure the powers that be at WDW realize Epcot is not brimming with thrill rides.

I do question some of the other results- and that makes me question the whole thing.

 

[itchin2go]

And it *feels* like to me that some people think these results are an indictment of WDW, it confirms their negative opinions and they get very defensive when anyone dares to question how these results were obtained or how it is some just don't seem to make sense.

Well, if you mean me, I have both positive and negative opinions regarding WDW. And I gather how these results were obtained and accept them for what they are. For me - they don't really need to "make sense". People are free to disagree with them. If my opinion doesn't match up with the results, that doesn't make either the results or my opinion invalid.

 

[Magpie]

I had to think about this for a bit... IOA placing higher than the Magic Kingdom?

But when I break it down, Islands is actually a very strong contender.

Nostalgia? Magic Kingdom wins... for me. For others, maybe for them nostalgia is Spiderman and Harry Potter.

The Magic Kingdom comes packaged with three other theme parks, two water parks, and tons of resorts. Islands comes with one other park and a handful of resorts. Magic Kingdom is the clear winner in this category.

Coasters: I have to give this one to Islands, as they have the Hulk, the Dueling Dragons, and the Hippogriff, serving a wider range of interests than the Barnstormer, Space Mountain, and BTMRR. I can't count the 7 Dwarves as a real coaster, given that it slows down the moment it begins a descent. It's really a slightly speedier than average dark ride.

Water rides: Magic Kingdom has nothing even remotely resembling the two flume rides at Islands. Splash Mountain and the Jurassic ride are very similar. So, this one also has to go to Islands.

Shows: I'm giving this one to the Magic Kingdom for sheer variety. Plus, Sinbad is pretty awful, and a lot longer than any of Disney's shows, and not even air conditioned.

Parades: Magic Kingdom wins.

Fireworks: Magic Kingdom wins.

Food: Mythos is far better than any restaurant in the Magic Kingdom. However, the Magic Kingdom offers more variety and varied theming. It's a draw.

Theming: Everyone likes to point to Harry Potter and claim it's the only well themed section in the entire park, but I don't believe this is true. Islands is a gorgeous park in its own right. I'm calling this one a draw, though personal taste will dictate your opinion on the matter.

Cleanliness and Service: A draw. The people who work at Islands are the same people who work at Disney, some of them literally. Their training is very similar. One of my favourite moments was walking into Guest Services at Islands and having a young lady jump up and say to the other team members, "Can I help her? Please? She'looks be my first!"

Meet and Greets: This one goes to Disney.

Playgrounds: Personally, I prefer the Jurassic playground to Tom Sawyers island, but that's a matter of personal taste. It's a draw.

Dark rides: Disney has more of the slow moving variety, such as Winnie the Pooh. And the Haunted Mansion is far better than any of the Seuss rides. But Islands has the Forbidden Journey and Spiderman. I'm giving this one to Islands, because the Forbidden Journey is my favorite ride EVAH. Ymmv.

Drop Rides: Islands has Dr. Doom. The Magic Kingdom has nothing in this category.

Shopping: Magic Kingdom offers far more variety.

Games: Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom offers more entertainment and replay value than the interactive wands, plus, free cards! This one goes to Disney. Though I still love my wand.

Broadness of Appeal: I think Islands squeaks ahead in this respect, as there are attractions and rides that appeal to both young children and teens, boys and girls, ride wimps like me and extreme coaster junkies. Magic Kingdom, on the other hand, has many more rides for toddlers, as well as ones that are senior-friendly, which brings us to...

Accessibility: Disney is far more accessible to people with 'unusual body dimensions', and also people who are mobility impaired. I don't know how their accommodations for people with special needs compare, but I'll give this one to Disney anyway.

Parties and Special Events: Disney, all the way.

Size: Disney has more rides, more shows, more of almost everything.

I've probably forgotten something, but depending on the value you assign to different aspects of your vacation experience, I could easily see either park coming out ahead.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I think there is an element of JimmyVs point about what type of people post on sites like TA.

But I also think MK is a victim of its own popularity. It's damningly crowded most days now, even on the slow days, which are few and far between. If you look carefully at the 3s and the 4s, it strikes me that the crowds what people are complaining about at MK.

 

[bcrook]

I had to think about this for a bit... IOA placing higher than the Magic Kingdom?

But when I break it down, Islands is actually a very strong contender.

Nostalgia? Magic Kingdom wins... for me. For others, maybe for them nostalgia is Spiderman and Harry Potter.

The Magic Kingdom comes packaged with three other theme parks, two water parks, and tons of resorts. Islands comes with one other park and a handful of resorts. Magic Kingdom is the clear winner in this category.

Coasters: I have to give this one to Islands, as they have the Hulk, the Dueling Dragons, and the Hippogriff, serving a wider range of interests than the Barnstormer, Space Mountain, and BTMRR. I can't count the 7 Dwarves as a real coaster, given that it slows down the moment it begins a descent. It's really a slightly speedier than average dark ride.

Water rides: Magic Kingdom has nothing even remotely resembling the two flume rides at Islands. Splash Mountain and the Jurassic ride are very similar. So, this one also has to go to Islands.

Shows: I'm giving this one to the Magic Kingdom for sheer variety. Plus, Sinbad is pretty awful, and a lot longer than any of Disney's shows, and not even air conditioned.

Parades: Magic Kingdom wins.

Fireworks: Magic Kingdom wins.

Food: Mythos is far better than any restaurant in the Magic Kingdom. However, the Magic Kingdom offers more variety and varied theming. It's a draw.

Theming: Everyone likes to point to Harry Potter and claim it's the only well themed section in the entire park, but I don't believe this is true. Islands is a gorgeous park in its own right. I'm calling this one a draw, though personal taste will dictate your opinion on the matter.

Cleanliness and Service: A draw. The people who work at Islands are the same people who work at Disney, some of them literally. Their training is very similar. One of my favourite moments was walking into Guest Services at Islands and having a young lady jump up and say to the other team members, "Can I help her? Please? She'looks be my first!"

Meet and Greets: This one goes to Disney.

Playgrounds: Personally, I prefer the Jurassic playground to Tom Sawyers island, but that's a matter of personal taste. It's a draw.

Dark rides: Disney has more of the slow moving variety, such as Winnie the Pooh. And the Haunted Mansion is far better than any of the Seuss rides. But Islands has the Forbidden Journey and Spiderman. I'm giving this one to Islands, because the Forbidden Journey is my favorite ride EVAH. Ymmv.

Drop Rides: Islands has Dr. Doom. The Magic Kingdom has nothing in this category.

Shopping: Magic Kingdom offers far more variety.

Games: Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom offers more entertainment and replay value than the interactive wands, plus, free cards! This one goes to Disney. Though I still love my wand.

Broadness of Appeal: I think Islands squeaks ahead in this respect, as there are attractions and rides that appeal to both young children and teens, boys and girls, ride wimps like me and extreme coaster junkies. Magic Kingdom, on the other hand, has many more rides for toddlers, as well as ones that are senior-friendly, which brings us to...

Accessibility: Disney is far more accessible to people with 'unusual body dimensions', and also people who are mobility impaired. I don't know how their accommodations for people with special needs compare, but I'll give this one to Disney anyway.

Parties and Special Events: Disney, all the way.

Size: Disney has more rides, more shows, more of almost everything.

I've probably forgotten something, but depending on the value you assign to different aspects of your vacation experience, I could easily see either park coming out ahead.

And that was quite fun to read!

 

[Magpie]

And that was quite fun to read!

Thank you!

Something else I thought of...

Crowds: Magic Kingdom is more crowded overall, but Hogsmede in Islands can get slammed. Disney has Fastpass, which can be viewed as a positive or negative, depending. Islands has an express pass which allows considerably more flexibility than fastpass, but which also costs extra (either up front or bundled into the cost of the resort, and which doesn't include Forbidden Journey. I'm giving this one to Islands only because it's an easier system for a newbie to understand.

Cost: The gate price is less at Islands, but neither is inexpensive and if you're any kind of Harry Potter fan, you'll have to buy a two park pass, so you can ride the train to Diagon Alley. It's a draw.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I know a lot of people in the hospitality business and they care about Trip Advisor reviews very very much. In fact, for some, it is the single most important thing that they care about in terms of guests feedback. They don't sit around musing about the scientific nature of the results or their legitimacy. They are what they are and they take great pains to improve upon anything they see in there that is negative. Now, none of these people own theme parks. So I do not know where Disney comes out on this. But I think it is safe to say that they are not writing it off as an unscientific compilation of reviews by people who don't know what they are talking about. As far as not being thrilled with the results, that is difficult to say, because #3 in the world is not a bad place to be. But #16 for Epcot has got to turn heads.

EPCOT needs more. As bad as DHS is becoming with closures, it just seems more pronounced at EPCOT. When does it get its overhaul?

 

[DoingDisney]

And it *feels* like to me that some people think these results are an indictment of WDW, it confirms their negative opinions and they get very defensive when anyone dares to question how these results were obtained or how it is some just don't seem to make sense.

The problem is their questioning is invalid as they don't offer a convincing critique.

 

[itchin2go]

EPCOT needs more. As bad as DHS is becoming with closures, it just seems more pronounced at EPCOT. When does it get its overhaul?

I adore Epcot. It is my favorite park, but that is largely because of World Showcase. Future World is just a shame right now. I kind of think it is skating by, though, on the strength of World Showcase, the festivals and the "one after the next" closures at DHS. I know they're adding capacity at Soarin, and the new Frozen ride is underway. Those changes will probably improve things a great deal (and, sure, create new problems), but the park will still be so far short of what it could be. I heard rumors of a new nighttime show? I don't think that's what it needs, but we'll see.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I adore Epcot. It is my favorite park, but that is largely because of World Showcase. Future World is just a shame right now. I kind of think it is skating by, though, on the strength of World Showcase, the festivals and the "one after the next" closures at DHS. I know they're adding capacity at Soarin, and the new Frozen ride is underway. Those changes will probably improve things a great deal (and, sure, create new problems), but the park will still be so far short of what it could be. I heard rumors of a new nighttime show? I don't think that's what it needs, but we'll see.

I flip back and forth between EPCOT and DHS.

When DHS lost all the production and no longer was a working studio, I changed loyalties. I had a fellow student
That interned at DHS in the production department when it was active. But by that point it was already had become much less active. A group of us were able to arrange a professional tour. At that point, the production was already on the decline and it was so sad. We sat on a sound stage and talked about it. Which was funny because that was when folks would walk through and they could peak through the windows. I always wondered what they were
Thinking. The sound stage was in progress of being set for a production that was halted. It was for a show that would have aired in another country. But they had funding issues. I think it all went quietly away because Who wants to Be a Millionaire, the attraction, took its place. The bonus is we got to eat in the CM cafeteria. Boy was that a gazillion times cheaper than where the guests eat.

After that I flip flopped back and forth between DHS and EPCOT being my favorites. DHS holds the edge because of TOT, bit I prefer all else at EPCOT to DHS. But they really need more. It seems they are in a friendly contest of who can close the most things. Had DHS at least remain a production studio, hands down it would be my favorite because I love that sort of thing.

For EPCOT, spend a few bucks and use the vacated space. I don't even need a billion dollar
Blockbuster.

 

[itchin2go]

It seems they are in a friendly contest of who can close the most things.

This statement cracks me up. Part of me *knows* there's a grand plan that will make this all make sense. And part of me is worried there isn't.

 

[bcrook]

This statement cracks me up. Part of me *knows* there's a grand plan that will make this all make sense. And part of me is worried there isn't.

I think we would all be more optimistic if that Wonders of Life Pavilion hadn't been shuttered for the past 10 years with no replacement. AND I don't want to hear that it is used for the Food and Wine demos. That doesn't count. They have other places to do that. Like the Innoventions space. Or the Odyssey. Or in the Stave Church... Just kidding.