Confirmed: Prices for Tickets and Passes going up on 2/11/2018

[Mamato4boys]

Not like I would ever expect Disney to release this information, but it makes me wonder how much they make per visit of APs versus non-APs.

While I believe that there are a decent amount of people (likely many people here), who are APs and spend a good amount of money on their trips, I also imagine there are a lot of AP holders who spend little money outside of buying their pass. I know I have spoken to several locals on my trips who say things like, "Oh, I never eat here!" Or encourage me to bring in snacks and leave for meals ("I come a few times a month and don't remember the last time I bought anything! "), or to buy souvenirs from the Character Warehouse (back when it was still open).

They are, of course, trying to be helpful and I've always appreciated it, but I doubt someone who spends $400 (or whatever low level APs are), comes multiple times a month, and rarely spends any more money are quite the customers that Disney is trying to bring in. Especially if too many of those types of customers end up discouraging customers who are likely to spend more.

If they can get the same amount of money from someone in 5 days (tickets, Maxpass, food, souvenirs) or much more (in the case of people staying on-site) than they can get from a good number of their passholders over the course of a year and possibly MANY trips, I imagine they don't want to lose those 5 day (or fewer) visitors to the lower spending APs. And those non-AP holders are the ones much more likely to decide not to visit because of crowding because they can't just easily come back again.

And in the case of the 5 day visitors, there are a lot fewer business expenses associated with bringing in that money than there are when someone goes to the parks many days to spend the same amount of money.

 

[Nonsuch]

When I first started buying our annual passes we had what we would call the premium AP for $89. Yup, passes have gone up. If prices stay stagnant, the crowds will only get worse. I seriously doubt this increase (10-18% for APs, 5-7% on tickets) is really going to slow down attendance. A lot of people will gripe initially, but will make the trip anyway. Do I love a price increase? No, but I will renew. As a shareholder, the price increase makes sense.

It was a hefty increase. But I agree that if prices don't rise crowds will just get even more out of control. I'm not sure they're high enough still to keep crowds in check. The initial announcement I saw said there will be more changes to APs later this year. I think more pruning is needed as they prepare for Galaxy's Edge. To me the price for APs just means I may not be able to justify purchasing APs and visiting multiple times in a year. But it doesn't mean we can't or won't visit. I hope over time they can balance crowds a bit better.

Not that I want to pay more, but I suspect Disney could rise prices much more without significantly reducing the crowds. This would make more money in the short term, but long term higher prices reduce the "fan-base". Most guests were introduced to Disneyland as children, so tickets need to be priced for family visits -- particularly single day tickets.

I'm hoping for some sort of advance reservation timed-entry for SW:GE, similar to how WDW does fastpass. No one wants to wait hours just to enter SW:GE

 

[smartlabelprint]

Not that I want to pay more, but I suspect Disney could rise prices much more without significantly reducing the crowds. This would make more money in the short term, but long term higher prices reduce the "fan-base". Most guests were introduced to Disneyland as children, so tickets need to be priced for family visits -- particularly single day tickets.

I'm hoping for some sort of advance reservation timed-entry for SW:GE, similar to how WDW does fastpass. No one wants to wait hours just to enter SW:GE

I agree that people would pay higher prices. But I feel with the AP deluxe increase we will now be an every 18-24 mos family rather than every 11-12 mos.

 

[cmwade77]

Not like I would ever expect Disney to release this information, but it makes me wonder how much they make per visit of APs versus non-APs.

While I believe that there are a decent amount of people (likely many people here), who are APs and spend a good amount of money on their trips, I also imagine there are a lot of AP holders who spend little money outside of buying their pass. I know I have spoken to several locals on my trips who say things like, "Oh, I never eat here!" Or encourage me to bring in snacks and leave for meals ("I come a few times a month and don't remember the last time I bought anything! "), or to buy souvenirs from the Character Warehouse (back when it was still open).

They are, of course, trying to be helpful and I've always appreciated it, but I doubt someone who spends $400 (or whatever low level APs are), comes multiple times a month, and rarely spends any more money are quite the customers that Disney is trying to bring in. Especially if too many of those types of customers end up discouraging customers who are likely to spend more.

If they can get the same amount of money from someone in 5 days (tickets, Maxpass, food, souvenirs) or much more (in the case of people staying on-site) than they can get from a good number of their passholders over the course of a year and possibly MANY trips, I imagine they don't want to lose those 5 day (or fewer) visitors to the lower spending APs. And those non-AP holders are the ones much more likely to decide not to visit because of crowding because they can't just easily come back again.

And in the case of the 5 day visitors, there are a lot fewer business expenses associated with bringing in that money than there are when someone goes to the parks many days to spend the same amount of money.

Yes and no, the problem with that is it looks at solely a per visit cost vs profit. In the short term this works, but in the long term this doesn't, as Disneyland doesn't get that many tourists during the off season. Realistically without annual pass holders they would end up having to close at least Tuesday-Thursday during the off season like they once did in order to remain profitable during the off season, then the tourists that do come during that time would complain about the parks being closed, so APs are necessary on the west coast.

Now, I can't say for all APs, but for the ones that I know and for me, I would say an average of about $150 per month per person is spent in the parks on food and merchandise alone and over the course of the year probably about another $250 on special experiences and other miscellaneous things. This isn't even counting the cost of the annual pass itself. So, don't think for a second Disney doesn't make a healthy profit on APs, they absolutely do.

 

[momof2n2]

I’m so happy. I got my new credit card today so I went to LMT and got tickets for our June trip. (I needed to wait for my new card so I could put this whopping purchase toward the “spend x in 3 months and get cash.”)

I saved $454 over Disneyland.com prices for our family of 8!

 

[Mamato4boys]

So, don't think for a second Disney doesn't make a healthy profit on APs, they absolutely do.

I'm sure there are a good number of APs that spend a lot of money in the parks. If people on these boards were an accurate representation of all APs, one could assume that they are making good money on most of their APs. However, I am just questioning if that is the case with the average AP holder. Particularly the lower level(s).

I am hoping that their restructuring includes a plan for encouraging more local and AP visits during non-peak vacation times and fewer during times when lots of people are coming from out of town. Seems like it would be win-win for everyone. Consistent income and improved customer satisfaction for Disney, fewer crowds for out of towners, keeping things as affordable as possible for the frequent visitors and locals.

 

[SOCALMouseMommy]

I am hoping that their restructuring includes a plan for encouraging more local and AP visits during non-peak vacation times and fewer during times when lots of people are coming from out of town.

Isn't that already the case now?

 

[Mamato4boys]

Isn't that already the case now?

Yes, I just think they should probably do it further. I've seen suggestions that they stop the payment plan. Maybe that would help a lot.. (I have no idea if it is common to use it or not, or if people take advantage of it because it is there and would still buy without the option)? I don't know.

It's hard to say what should be done, but most people seem to be in agreement that the crowds are getting to the point that, without a proper plan, it is getting harder to enjoy yourself in the parks. That used to be a major plus to Disneyland... I have never been to WDW, but have read so many times where people say the laid-back vibe of DLR is a huge part of the charm. But now, more and more you see people (rightly) advising upcoming visitors to have a good plan in place so they are able to enjoy themselves, despite the crowds.

I've just been thinking that, from a business standpoint, it doesn't make much sense to scare off higher paying customers to allow lower paying customers access to so many park days. (Most of this is referring to lower levels of AP, I imagine that there are fewer of the higher passes out there and that those customers are likely bringing a good amount of money to the table.)

 

[azdisneylover]

I'm sure there are a good number of APs that spend a lot of money in the parks. If people on these boards were an accurate representation of all APs, one could assume that they are making good money on most of their APs. However, I am just questioning if that is the case with the average AP holder. Particularly the lower level(s).

I am hoping that their restructuring includes a plan for encouraging more local and AP visits during non-peak vacation times and fewer during times when lots of people are coming from out of town. Seems like it would be win-win for everyone. Consistent income and improved customer satisfaction for Disney, fewer crowds for out of towners, keeping things as affordable as possible for the frequent visitors and locals.

We currently have deluxe passes and with the insane increase, we will not be renewing the passes when they expire. We are in AZ, so, when we go, we stay onsite, eat all meals either in the parks or in DTD, (anyone with teenagers know how much they can eat), shop and send things back to the room, but all that will change once these passes expire. If the passes went up $20-$30, we wouldn't have liked it, but having the renewal discount would have made it easy to talk the hubby into it. But, the gougefest Disney is having, not only did the renewal price skyrocketed, they took away the renewal discount! That is a lot of money to cough up for 5 passes. NO monthly payments for us. So, we will enjoy our passes now and plan for annual passes for Knotts along with other places to see in CA other than Disneyland. Unless there are great deals, we won't be back to Disneyland in 5 years.

 

[Mamato4boys]

We currently have deluxe passes and with the insane increase, we will not be renewing the passes when they expire. We are in AZ, so, when we go, we stay onsite, eat all meals either in the parks or in DTD, (anyone with teenagers know how much they can eat), shop and send things back to the room, but all that will change once these passes expire. If the passes went up $20-$30, we wouldn't have liked it, but having the renewal discount would have made it easy to talk the hubby into it. But, the gougefest Disney is having, not only did the renewal price skyrocketed, they took away the renewal discount! That is a lot of money to cough up for 5 passes. NO monthly payments for us. So, we will enjoy our passes now and plan for annual passes for Knotts along with other places to see in CA other than Disneyland. Unless there are great deals, we won't be back to Disneyland in 5 years.

That is a huge bummer, and I'm sure you are the exact customer that Disney doesn't want to "scare off." While I would rather pay a little more (despite being a budget traveler who has to save for 2 years between trips for my family of 6) and thin the herd a bit, it is sad when people get priced out. Maybe an occasional trip with just tickets? But then, the cost of tickets is getting hard to afford, too (especially for big families). It really is a double-edged sword with no perfect solution. Except to magically create a third park and pay for it without any price increases, of course.

 

[Sergio S]

Not like I would ever expect Disney to release this information, but it makes me wonder how much they make per visit of APs versus non-APs.

While I believe that there are a decent amount of people (likely many people here), who are APs and spend a good amount of money on their trips, I also imagine there are a lot of AP holders who spend little money outside of buying their pass. I know I have spoken to several locals on my trips who say things like, "Oh, I never eat here!" Or encourage me to bring in snacks and leave for meals ("I come a few times a month and don't remember the last time I bought anything! "), or to buy souvenirs from the Character Warehouse (back when it was still open).

They are, of course, trying to be helpful and I've always appreciated it, but I doubt someone who spends $400 (or whatever low level APs are), comes multiple times a month, and rarely spends any more money are quite the customers that Disney is trying to bring in. Especially if too many of those types of customers end up discouraging customers who are likely to spend more.

If they can get the same amount of money from someone in 5 days (tickets, Maxpass, food, souvenirs) or much more (in the case of people staying on-site) than they can get from a good number of their passholders over the course of a year and possibly MANY trips, I imagine they don't want to lose those 5 day (or fewer) visitors to the lower spending APs. And those non-AP holders are the ones much more likely to decide not to visit because of crowding because they can't just easily come back again.

And in the case of the 5 day visitors, there are a lot fewer business expenses associated with bringing in that money than there are when someone goes to the parks many days to spend the same amount of money.

Ask and you shall receive!!!

Ok, so I did a “little” number crunching...taking to account the following information provided by statista.com.
So...in 2016 DL reported an attendance of 17.94 million visitors.
Taking 17.94 million and dividing it by 365...that averages out to around 49,150 people a day at DL only. I'm going to round up to 50,000 although DL probably holds more than 50,000 (I mean Dodger Stadium holds 56,000), but this is just for information. But before we break down know much per day is made by Corp Disney, we need to break down some other info first.

First, the Non-AP costs for visiting ONLY DL:

Daily (baseline): $117
Two day: $210
Three day: $280
Four day: $305
Five day: $320

Now, we look at the prices of the APs from the APs POV, here's the broken down info per each AP (note the value per day is if the AP holder goes every day and ONLY to DL):

So. Cal $369
Total days: 162
Value per day $2.28

Deluxe $729
Total days: 315
Value per day: $2.31

Sig Pass: $999
Total days: 327
Value per day: $3.06

Sig+ Pass
Total days: 365
Value per day: $3.15

Now from the Business POV. Well it is hard to determine what day is a value day and what day is a peak day, I am going to set the baseline price of $117/day. So what does Corp Disney value the price of the APs (again ONLY visiting DL):
So. Cal (162 days): $18,954
Deluxe (315 days): $36,855
Sig (327 days): $44,799 (Parking Included)
Sig+(365 days): $50,005 (Parking Included)

What is Corp Disney losing from each AP sale based on the daily price they set at $117 and the number of days allowed to visit:
So. Cal: -$18,585
Deluxe: -$36,126
Sig: -$43,800 (Parking Included)
Sig+: -$48,856 (Parking Included)

There is no real accounting cost or lost here because that the differences between the lost if a single day price ticket going the same amount of days as the non-blackout days. And its not really recorded anywhere (that I'm aware of).

So how much does Corp Disney lose every time an AP visits (again just DL)?

So. Cal: -$114.72
Deluxe: -$114.69
Sig: -$113.94 or -$133.94 (Parking Included)
Sig+: -$113.85 or -$133.85 (Parking Included)

Now, going back to the daily attendance number of 50,000 attending DL.

Let's take a day where there are no black out dates at all, and all the APs can go, but the attendance is capped at 50,000.

So Cal: 7500 (15%) -$1,235,416.67
DP: 5000 (10%) -$573,428.57
SP: 5000 (10%) -$669,724.77 (remember this price include parking)
SP+ 2500 (5%) -$334,630.14 (parking included)
Daily: 15000 (30%) $1,579,500.00
2 Day 6000 (12%) $630,000
3 Day 4500 (9%) $420,030
4 Day 3000 (6%) $228,750
5 Day 1500 (3%) $96,000
$316,579.85

If we remove the parking from SP and SP+, then the profit would be $466,609.76.

Okay, now lets do a blackout date for both So Cal and DP, but still keep the number of attendance at 50,000

SP 5000 (10%) -$669,724,77
SP+ 2500 (5%) -$334,630.14
Daily 21250 (43%) $2,486,250
2 Day 8500 (17%) $892,500
3 Day 6375 (13%) $595,042.50
4 Day 4250 (9%) $324,062.50)
5 Day 2125 (4%) $136,000
$3,429,500.09
And again, if we remove parking for SP and SP+, then it would be $3,579,530

And this is just visiting ONE PARK. Yes, I have the numbers for doing a park hopper, but this information is good enough and I don't want to overload some people with crazy numbers.

Now many will probably criticize these figures and that's fine and all feedback is welcomed. If you find an error, please tell me so I can readjust my spreadsheets. Another point I should make... these are just fictional numbers made up based on the data provided through several websites. In fact, I really exaggerated with the AP attendance numbers per day because I do not believe that 7,500 So Cal pass holders will visit on a single day (though again I could be wrong). Next, this is based on that APs holders paying their passes all up front and not taking into consideration payment plans (and yes I have a spreadsheet for that too). Finally, these numbers are NOT to represent the actual figures. DIS will not release those figures. I'm just a numbers detailed person and when I get some free time at work, I do spreadsheets like this on a regular bases for fun. Yes, for fun! If you want me to run more realistic numbers, I'd be more than happy to.

 

[smartlabelprint]

Yes, I just think they should probably do it further. I've seen suggestions that they stop the payment plan. Maybe that would help a lot.. (I have no idea if it is common to use it or not, or if people take advantage of it because it is there and would still buy without the option)? I don't know.

It's hard to say what should be done, but most people seem to be in agreement that the crowds are getting to the point that, without a proper plan, it is getting harder to enjoy yourself in the parks. That used to be a major plus to Disneyland... I have never been to WDW, but have read so many times where people say the laid-back vibe of DLR is a huge part of the charm. But now, more and more you see people (rightly) advising upcoming visitors to have a good plan in place so they are able to enjoy themselves, despite the crowds.

I've just been thinking that, from a business standpoint, it doesn't make much sense to scare off higher paying customers to allow lower paying customers access to so many park days. (Most of this is referring to lower levels of AP, I imagine that there are fewer of the higher passes out there and that those customers are likely bringing a good amount of money to the table.)

I agree that they need to decrease AP presence. It costs $185 for a one day park hopper during peak times. I think all but the highest pass should be blocked during peak times. I think the highest pass should be doubled in price. There should be a mid level AP pass that is good during "regular" periods on the calendar. It should be the price of the current Signature but allow photos and maxpass. Then there can be a non-peak pass that's considered the California pass and meant to fill the parks during the actual slow season when there aren't enough day guests for their budget.

I don't know the answer. But I'm sure the number crunchers are working on finding a balance between completely pissing off the mid-level AP's and pissing off day guests that are be paying $80-185 PER DAY to be there. I appreciate that they do surveys on top of their other number stuff that they store in the background. It seems like it would be a really fun job (I'm an accountant) but you could easily get fired!

 

[azdisneylover]

Disney needs to take away the payment plan, that would make AP holders thin a bit.

 

[cmwade77]

So. Cal $369
Total days: 162
Value per day $2.28

Deluxe $729
Total days: 315
Value per day: $2.31

Sig Pass: $999
Total days: 327
Value per day: $3.06

Sig+ Pass
Total days: 365
Value per day: $3.15

This isn't really accurate, you need to actually divide by the number of visits over the course of a year, obviously this depends on each person, but overall, the average is probably around 14 times a year.

Now from the Business POV. Well it is hard to determine what day is a value day and what day is a peak day, I am going to set the baseline price of $117/day. So what does Corp Disney value the price of the APs (again ONLY visiting DL):
So. Cal (162 days): $18,954
Deluxe (315 days): $36,855
Sig (327 days): $44,799 (Parking Included)
Sig+(365 days): $50,005 (Parking Included)

What is Corp Disney losing from each AP sale based on the daily price they set at $117 and the number of days allowed to visit:
So. Cal: -$18,585
Deluxe: -$36,126
Sig: -$43,800 (Parking Included)
Sig+: -$48,856 (Parking Included)

Again, we can't really count this in this manner, as this would assume that there is a single day ticket for every day that someone with a pass attends the park, but there isn't necessarily.


Also these figures don't account for money spent on food, merchandise, special experiences, hotels, etc. All of these are factors that they look at as well.

 

[cmwade77]

Disney needs to take away the payment plan, that would make AP holders thin a bit.

It is true that it would, but it would also mean they would have to lower pass prices dramatically to get profit levels back to where they are now and they would end up in a worse overcrowding situation. I could foresee them changing to 6 payments over the course of the year, the higher per month payment would reduce the number of APs at a more reasonable rate even if prices remain as they are now.

 

[azdisneylover]

It is true that it would, but it would also mean they would have to lower pass prices dramatically to get profit levels back to where they are now and they would end up in a worse overcrowding situation. I could foresee them changing to 6 payments over the course of the year, the higher per month payment would reduce the number of APs at a more reasonable rate even if prices remain as they are now.

They could just put passes back to the prices they were and not have the payment plan. That would cut down on AP holders and increase ticket buyers.

 

[dina444444]

Rumor

RUMOR: Disneyland Annual Pass Program to be Revamped Due to Star Wars – Galaxy’s Edge

 

[mom2rtk]

Rumor

RUMOR: Disneyland Annual Pass Program to be Revamped Due to Star Wars – Galaxy’s Edge

Well, if they do make SW a MaxPass only deal, that will ruin the entire MP program. It works great now because not everyone uses it. That will cause FPs all over the parks to disappear so much faster.

 

[lcp9]

I agree that they need to decrease AP presence. It costs $185 for a one day park hopper during peak times. I think all but the highest pass should be blocked during peak times. I think the highest pass should be doubled in price. There should be a mid level AP pass that is good during "regular" periods on the calendar. It should be the price of the current Signature but allow photos and maxpass. Then there can be a non-peak pass that's considered the California pass and meant to fill the parks during the actual slow season when there aren't enough day guests for their budget.

I don't know the answer. But I'm sure the number crunchers are working on finding a balance between completely pissing off the mid-level AP's and pissing off day guests that are be paying $80-185 PER DAY to be there. I appreciate that they do surveys on top of their other number stuff that they store in the background. It seems like it would be a really fun job (I'm an accountant) but you could easily get fired!

I don't think I realized a 1 day PH could be $185. That's INSANE. I get they want to encourage multi-day visits, but most people are planning visits based on time constraints and not wants. So that said, it's kind of interesting because I imagine more people coming for one day will just pick one park, which seems the opposite of what Disney wants.

 

[mom2rtk]

I don't think I realized a 1 day PH could be $185. That's INSANE. I get they want to encourage multi-day visits, but most people are planning visits based on time constraints and not wants. So that said, it's kind of interesting because I imagine more people coming for one day will just pick one park, which seems the opposite of what Disney wants.

Wait until you add the price of MaxPass on top of that (especially after it goes up like we all know it will before SWL opens).