*Confirmed* G+ Changes to Advanced Lightning Lane

[SheSingsAlong]

There's some interesting discourse on here about G+, which got me thinking of a few things that I'd like to bounce off anyone on here who'd be willing to answer/ give their opinion:

1. Are Stand-By wait times more negatively impacted by G+ (and LL selections by extension), or an abuse of the DAS system?

2. There was a time where our local Great Wolf Lodge wouldn't let guests access the water park unless they were spending a night at the resort. Is there a world (no pun intended) where Disney bundles park tickets with on-site hotel reservations and only allows entry to APs and on-site guests? Probably wouldn't need G+ in this instance?

3. For anyone who thinks G+ isn't a solution to maximizing the overall ticketed guest experience, what solutions could Disney pursue? Every time I brainstorm this, the only solution I can think of is "make park tickets more expensive, lower park capacity/volume". In the spirit of WDW being a place for everyone, this doesn't feel like a solution, but I'm not sure what is. It seems like every idea lifts one group of people up, while simultaneously punishing a different group.

Thanks in advance for any anecdotal insight!

1.) I don't think there is any way for any of us to know the answer to this question. My guess is G+ has the greater impact because it is an authorized line-skipping method and *more* people are likely to do the Disney-approved thing than to "cheat" by getting DAS when they don't actually need it. Yes DAS abuse is a known issue, I do not think it rises to the level that it supersedes G+.

2.) No, I can't see this happening at all. Day guests without hotel reservations make up too much of the guest count.

3.) This is discussed not infrequently over on The Disney Tourist Blog and I agree with Tom Bricker's sentiment: the way you fix these capacity issues (because that's really what this problem boils down to) is by Disney *adding capacity* - as in more rides in each of the parks. Why does G+ work better at Disneyland than Disney World? There as as many rides in 2 parks in CA as there are in 4 parks in FL. Why does G+ work best at MK out of the 4 WDW parks? Because it has the most rides of all the parks.

I'm tired of Disney fans fighting over pieces of the pie - Disney needs to make the pie bigger. How much truly *additional* capacity has WDW added in the last 10 years (and by that I mean new rides/experiences that did not replace old rides/experiences)? Not enough by far considering how much attendance has increased in that same time. I'll get off my soap box now.

 

[firefly_ris]

I'm tired of Disney fans fighting over pieces of the pie - Disney needs to make the pie bigger. How much truly *additional* capacity has WDW added in the last 10 years (and by that I mean new rides/experiences that did not replace old rides/experiences)? Not enough by far considering how much attendance has increased in that same time. I'll get off my soap box now.

Hey, they need that money for more DVC buildings!

Ugh.

 

[Smugpugmug]

There's some interesting discourse on here about G+, which got me thinking of a few things that I'd like to bounce off anyone on here who'd be willing to answer/ give their opinion:

1. Are Stand-By wait times more negatively impacted by G+ (and LL selections by extension), or an abuse of the DAS system?

I don't know anything about DAS but standby lines are 100% impacted by Genie+/ILL. CMs often have a ratio 1 standby for every 10 Lighting Lane parties that they send through the merge point. However that can increase as I've personally seen 100 Lightning Lane go through with only one standby going through.

 

[TimbertopNJ]

I don't know anything about DAS but standby lines are 100% impacted by Genie+/ILL. CMs often have a ratio 1 standby for every 10 Lighting Lane parties that they send through the merge point. However that can increase as I've personally seen 100 Lightning Lane go through with only one standby going through.

My curiosity, and I'm just thinking aloud here and not asking a question, is how many of those ppl in the Lightning Lane are there because of G+/ILL, or because they're using DAS. And there's a great many of people who rightfully require the DAS service, so I hope I don't sound critical of the program. Just postulating about a number-figure that there's no way for me to actually know, which is rightful DAS users vs potential abusers.

 

[Lumpy1106]

If they scrap G+, I'm never coming back.

So you are only ever going to come back if they allow you to pay to cut in line?

You are not thinking this through; is there EVER a reason for an omni-mover ride like Haunted Mansion to have a line that is over an hour long? Of course not! But with G+, that's a pretty normal standby line wait. That line should be 30 minutes tops on all but the worst of the holidays. Frozen standby is absolutely intolerable. It was not the day before G+ was introduced. Do you have any interest in fixing that or are you just happy you got to cut the line?

 

[BrianL]

So you are only ever going to come back if they allow you to pay to cut in line?

You are not thinking this through; is there EVER a reason for an omni-mover ride like Haunted Mansion to have a line that is over an hour long? Of course not! But with G+, that's a pretty normal standby line wait. That line should be 30 minutes tops on all but the worst of the holidays. Frozen standby is absolutely intolerable. It was not the day before G+ was introduced. Do you have any interest in fixing that or are you just happy you got to cut the line?

Yes! One thing they should not do is allor LL for certain rides. Disneyland actually does not offer it for some of the rides that don't need it. They do for HM becuase it's so popular (especially Holiday), but I agree that Omnimovers shouldn't have it at all. Newer rides were designed with it in mind, but it just doesn't work for some of them.

 

[SL6827]

There's some interesting discourse on here about G+, which got me thinking of a few things that I'd like to bounce off anyone on here who'd be willing to answer/ give their opinion:

1. Are Stand-By wait times more negatively impacted by G+ (and LL selections by extension), or an abuse of the DAS system?

2. There was a time where our local Great Wolf Lodge wouldn't let guests access the water park unless they were spending a night at the resort. Is there a world (no pun intended) where Disney bundles park tickets with on-site hotel reservations and only allows entry to APs and on-site guests? Probably wouldn't need G+ in this instance?

3. For anyone who thinks G+ isn't a solution to maximizing the overall ticketed guest experience, what solutions could Disney pursue? Every time I brainstorm this, the only solution I can think of is "make park tickets more expensive, lower park capacity/volume". In the spirit of WDW being a place for everyone, this doesn't feel like a solution, but I'm not sure what is. It seems like every idea lifts one group of people up, while simultaneously punishing a different group.

Thanks in advance for any anecdotal insight!

Ok, off topic here, but I thought you had to be staying at Great Wolf to access the water park. Was I wrong? Did they have some other type of guest?

 

[HokieRaven5]

Ok, off topic here, but I thought you had to be staying at Great Wolf to access the water park. Was I wrong? Did they have some other type of guest?

You can buy day passes to just the water park.

 

[Lumpy1106]

There's some interesting discourse on here about G+, which got me thinking of a few things that I'd like to bounce off anyone on here who'd be willing to answer/ give their opinion:

1. Are Stand-By wait times more negatively impacted by G+ (and LL selections by extension), or an abuse of the DAS system?

2. There was a time where our local Great Wolf Lodge wouldn't let guests access the water park unless they were spending a night at the resort. Is there a world (no pun intended) where Disney bundles park tickets with on-site hotel reservations and only allows entry to APs and on-site guests? Probably wouldn't need G+ in this instance?

3. For anyone who thinks G+ isn't a solution to maximizing the overall ticketed guest experience, what solutions could Disney pursue? Every time I brainstorm this, the only solution I can think of is "make park tickets more expensive, lower park capacity/volume". In the spirit of WDW being a place for everyone, this doesn't feel like a solution, but I'm not sure what is. It seems like every idea lifts one group of people up, while simultaneously punishing a different group.

Thanks in advance for any anecdotal insight!

1. No question DAS abuse was pretty bad on some rides before G+. Now that 90% of the ride is filled with anyone in that line it would be impossible to know if DAS abuse has gotten better or worse, but safe to say, it does not matter to the people in Standby. DAS or G+ - who cares? Oh, maybe Disney since the DAS abusers are not paying.
2. GWL - no idea, never been.
3. TRON and Guardians lines work great. I'm a big fan of VQ and I really don't mind waking up at 7 to get one (or logging in at 1p from the park). The early mad rush for VQ at RotR left some very disappointed Star Wars fans but I think that has largely mellowed by now. If you added a VQ to SDD that would spread out the demand too. VQ for FoP? Yes please!

 

[TimbertopNJ]

Ok, off topic here, but I thought you had to be staying at Great Wolf to access the water park. Was I wrong? Did they have some other type of guest?

You're correct, I misused the word "guest". Apologies!

Meant to say that years ago, no one could access Great Wolf's waterpark unless they were a guest (staying the night). No ideas on the rules nowadays. I know Kalahari Waterpark allows day guests.

 

[Smugpugmug]

My curiosity, and I'm just thinking aloud here and not asking a question, is how many of those ppl in the Lightning Lane are there because of G+/ILL, or because they're using DAS. And there's a great many of people who rightfully require the DAS service, so I hope I don't sound critical of the program. Just postulating about a number-figure that there's no way for me to actually know, which is rightful DAS users vs potential abusers.

I don't think anyone can answer that question unless they have the actual numbers. The closest insight we have is that Len Testa (owner of Touring Plans and has direct insider contact with Disney) stated on a WDWMagic thread about this topic that he has noticed an increase of DAS usage since the implementation of Genie+/ILL.

 

[TimbertopNJ]

1. No question DAS abuse was pretty bad on some rides before G+. Now that 90% of the ride is filled with anyone in that line it would be impossible to know if DAS abuse has gotten better or worse, but safe to say, it does not matter to the people in Standby. DAS or G+ - who cares? Oh, maybe Disney since the DAS abusers are not paying.
2. GWL - no idea, never been.
3. TRON and Guardians lines work great. I'm a big fan of VQ and I really don't mind waking up at 7 to get one (or logging in at 1p from the park). The early mad rush for VQ at RotR left some very disappointed Star Wars fans but I think that has largely mellowed by now. If you added a VQ to SDD that would spread out the demand too. VQ for FoP? Yes please!

I personally love the idea of VQs replacing G+ and ILLs, and giving all guests access to that system as a part of their ticket functionality. I'm with you in theory, give me more VQs.

Mathematically, I have no idea how each park absorbs guests who aren't in queue. Would it be mayhem with all big rides having VQ? Maybe (Kinda wanna see it). There's definitely a numbers game to be played in all of this that we can only speculate because we don't see the statistical analysis of guest allocation in a park.

Thanks for the answer!

 

[TimbertopNJ]

I don't think anyone can answer that question unless they have the actual numbers. The closest insight we have is that Len Testa (owner of Touring Plans and has direct insider contact with Disney) stated on a WDWMagic thread about this topic that he has noticed an increase of DAS usage since the implementation of Genie+/ILL.

Which logically makes sense. Take away a free service (FP+) and people might try to find a way to get a different free service (DAS abuse).

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[thanxfornoticin]

I personally love the idea of VQs replacing G+ and ILLs, and giving all guests access to that system as a part of their ticket functionality. I'm with you in theory, give me more VQs.

Mathematically, I have no idea how each park absorbs guests who aren't in queue. Would it be mayhem with all big rides having VQ? Maybe (Kinda wanna see it). There's definitely a numbers game to be played in all of this that we can only speculate because we don't see the statistical analysis of guest allocation in a park.

Thanks for the answer!

Nah, VQs are essentially a controlled standby line. They only use it for the newest, most popular attractions so they can avoid that 5-hr standby lines that happened early on for a couple attractions. In theory, all the attractions already have VQs! And with your ticket, if you choose to not purchase G+ or ILLs, you have access to the standby/VQ lines already.

And yes, if G+/ILL didn't exist, the standby lines would move faster. They'd also be longer, so it's likely it wouldn't save as much waiting as some assume. So, I expect, like it or not, the decision guests will need to make is whether they wish to pay a few dollars more during the day to get shorter waits on a few attractions - or not. Paying for certain LL access is not going away - not at Disney and not at many other places either.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

They'd also be longer, so it's likely it wouldn't save as much waiting as some assume

Have been to Universal to see how no get ahead of the line option works? Most people know that once Universal adds EP on it drives up the SB line wait. But normally by that point the effect isn't as grand as you could hypothesize at Disney because Universal waits it out til an attraction's wait time is at a certain point. You can see it now with VelociCoaster where the reports immediately showed an uptick in wait time as opposed to the overall average time prior to EP being added.

The only people I see griping so hard about going to a standby line only are the ones who are so used to 20 maybe 30mins wait with LL (or previously FP+). That's all very logical but the point really isn't that people in Standby suddenly save a huge ton of time but that there aren't merge points to halt people, there aren't situations where people in SB are being let through only a few at a time so yes physically the line gets longer but that's purely because everyone is in the same line. People in SB are still going to wait but at that point it keeps going.

Really the crux is to start thinking about it from the perspective of the SB line user and not how those already using LL's perspective.

 

[Brian Noble]

Disney needs to make the pie bigger.

That costs money to build and to operate. There are only two ways to make that make sense from Disney's perspective:

1. Increase the number of guests (which defeats the purpose of increased capacity),
2. Charge the existing number of guests more money (which most DISers dislike).

Increasing capacity is going to require some combination of those two things, because Disney is not in the business of making less money this year than they made last year.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I have always said Disney will find another way to “lock” us into a park reservation. Advance G+ bookings are it so I think this rumor is pretty spot on.

I was one of the lone people who was excited for FP+ when it came out (I remember those threads!) because the old paper passes sucked so bad for our family. If G+ goes back to being just like FP+ we will adjust.

We were fine using G+ and don't find it that bad. It worked better than FP+ for us since we usually booked FP+ for our PM park and didn't pull extras. With G+ we were able to ride many more rides. If we go back to advance bookings I will probably move to AM rides and keep grabbing additional passes throughout the day.

My favorite part of G+ is being able to change your park the day of (if there are available park reservations which most of the time there usually is) and not worry about losing your coveted FP+ selections. We did this a few times this past trip. With FP+ we wouldn't dare cancel our FOP FP+ or 7DMT FP+ and switch to another park. We were locked in and didn't deviate from those plans too much.

I'm with those that wants Disney to pick something and stick with it. I'm tired of learning and relearning these products.

 

[SheSingsAlong]

That costs money to build and to operate. There are only two ways to make that make sense from Disney's perspective:

1. Increase the number of guests (which defeats the purpose of increased capacity),
2. Charge the existing number of guests more money (which most DISers dislike).

Increasing capacity is going to require some combination of those two things, because Disney is not in the business of making less money this year than they made last year.

Any option is going to cost more - some people here are proposing a Universal style pass that is ~$200 per person for skip the line. I'd rather have value added to the parks in the form of more rides/experiences and pay more for the ticket because of it. But that's just me and everyone has their own opinion. At the end of the day one thing is true: whatever "solution" Disney devises will definitely result in higher costs for the customer.

 

[BrianL]

That costs money to build and to operate. There are only two ways to make that make sense from Disney's perspective:

1. Increase the number of guests (which defeats the purpose of increased capacity),
2. Charge the existing number of guests more money (which most DISers dislike).

Increasing capacity is going to require some combination of those two things, because Disney is not in the business of making less money this year than they made last year.

That's the issue with the current corporate mentality - they only see the short term. They do need to increase capacity so that they CAN increase the number of guests. That should go hand-in-hand as they continue to grow, however there will always be points at which things skew one way or the other. Growth may slow, but that's not the time to take the foot off the gas, or it WILL lead to declines. It amazes me that so many corprate leaders can't see that.

 

[SL6827]

Isn't a DAS pass much harder to get now? And VQs, they can be a long wait as well once you get in line, right?