Complicated contract question---HELP!

[Mic]

This is confusing and complicated, but I know the experts here can help. My husband and I are both listed on the deed for our DVC contracts, and we have several(add-on-itis hits me about every year!). I would like to purchase a small contract of 25-50 points to let my sister use every other year, but my husband is trying to discourage me from doing so. I am not sure if I can add her to just 1 of our contracts, or if I need to add her to all of our contracts in order to let her use the one 50-point contract I currently have at Vero Beach. My husband will never agree to add her name to our DVC contracts, even as an associate. Is it possible to remove my husband's name from our Vero contract, and just add my sister's name as an associate? My husband would possibly agree to that, as long as his name and her name are not on the same contract. If Disney will allow us to remove my husband's name from the Vero contract, and leave all the other contracts as they are, then I can give up my search for a 25-50 point resale, which is getting harder to come by. I could never afford to purchase a new contract through Disney of 150(or is it 160 now)points to give to my sister, but I can afford a very small contract to give her. Of course, just adding her name to a contract I already have would be ideal. My main goal is to make sure my little nephew gets to Disney at least once every few years, but I don't want to end up in divorce court over it! Thanks!

 

[Caskbill]

Keep in mind you really only have a single contract, in your and your husband's name.

Add-on purchases are just that, an add on to your existing master contract, even though they are listed as separate contracts, they really are an extension of your original contract. If you look at the contract numbers, you'll see that. For example your original contract may be # 12345.000, and your first add-on will be contract # 12345.001, and your second add-on is contract 12345.002. Note that they are all part of master contract # 12345. All of these are under a single membership number.

A totally different contract might be #34567.000, #34567.001, #34567.002, etc.

All add-on's must have the same names, addresses, etc that's on the master contract.

You cannot remove one name from a single add-on, and put a different name in it's place.

You cannot purchase another small add-on and put your sister's name on it instead of your husband's. It wouldn't be an add-on contract then. But you could try to find a small contract and purchase it outright under your and your sister's name. It would not be an add on, would have it's own membership number, and would be as distinctly different from your current contract(s) as my contracts are from yours. The points could not be combined with your current contract when making reservations, and the points would have their own banking window percentages. As a totally separate contract, it could be a different use year so you would not have to restrict your small contract search to your current use year as you would if you were doing a truly add-on purchase.

As for the VB add-on, the only possible thing you could do is actually sell the VB contract, and then buy it back under your and your sister's name. This would involve going through a closing broker of some kind, and you would have to pass ROFR. Basically you'd sell your own small contract and buy it back under different names.

 

[dcfromva]

My husband will never agree to add her name to our DVC contracts, even as an associate. Is it possible to remove my husband's name from our Vero contract, and just add my sister's name as an associate? My husband would possibly agree to that, as long as his name and her name are not on the same contract.

Mic,
Could you transfer your Vero interest to your DSis? I believe you have to go through a process similar to closing in order to do this and Disney ROFR (and your DSis would then be responsible to pay the maint. fees)

-DC

 

[DISNEY FIX]

I could never afford to purchase a new contract through Disney of 150(or is it 160 now)points to give to my sister, but I can afford a very small contract to give her.

Would she be able to do an add on with just her and her sisters name through Disney, since she is already a member? How long could the waitlist be? Just a thought.
Chris

 

[LisaS]

Would she be able to do an add on with just her and her sisters name through Disney, since she is already a member? How long could the waitlist be? Just a thought.
Chris

No because as Caskbill explained an "add-on" is an extension of an existing contract, with the same names on the deed. She could purchase a new master contract with her sister but that would require purchasing a minimum of 160 points. A new master would be completely separate from her other contracts (no "co-mingling" of the points on a reservation) which would satisfy her DH's requirements, but it's more points than the OP wanted to purchase.

I believe there is a way to sort of "spin off" an add-on, adding a name to the deed and turning it into a master contract with a new membership number. I've seen posts describing how to do this but I am not familiar enough with the process to even attempt to describe it.

 

[DISNEY FIX]

No because as Caskbill explained an "add-on" is an extension of an existing contract, with the same names on the deed. She could purchase a new master contract with her sister but that would require purchasing a minimum of 160 points. A new master would be completely separate from her other contracts (no "co-mingling" of the points on a reservation) which would satisfy her DH's requirements, but it's more points than the OP wanted to purchase.

Still learning...

 

[LisaS]

Still learning...

Me too! It takes a while to get familiar with all the details but you're in the right place. Just keep reading and asking questions!

 

[Chuck S]

Mic, you are very generous to want to give a contract to your sister. If you really want to pursue that course, I would purchase a small resale contract for her, in her name ONLY as a gift, unless you are prepared to accept the entire cost of the contract, including dues, for the life of the contract.

Also remember, if for some reason your sister would need to declare bankruptcy in the future, that contract could be in jeopardy...even if you have proof YOU paid for it and all the dues, even if your name is also on the contract, thus involving you in any potential problems.

 

[Mic]

Wow! You guys are good---and fast!
Caskbill-
I understand you completely about the master contract and add-ons. I just did not know how to put it into words! I guess what I was asking is "how difficult would it be to make my VB add-on a separate contract, with just mine and my sister's name?" She is not responsible enough for me to "sell" it to her, or even gift it to her, as she would not pay the maintenance fees(I love her, but the girl doesn't pay her bills). My name would have to stay on the contract until I willed or gifted it to my sister's son(who is in kindergarten right now). I have at least 15 years to figure out how to do that! So now that I know what I need to do, how do I do it? Is there some way to bypass the ROFR through Disney? I would call them and ask, but I feel I would get more knowledgeable advice here! Thanks to all that have responded so far!

 

[LisaS]

Here is another post where people are discussing this same situation. It doesn't provide much in the way of details about the steps involved in adding someone to the deed of one of your add-ons. But there is a bit of discussion on the risks which should be considered when adding someone else on to the deed: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1347936

Here is another thread on this topic that might be helpful: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1387237

 

[Mic]

Thanks Chuck for the reminder about the financial ramifications of owning something jointly. That is the very reason my husband refuses to have her name on our contract in any way! She has recently lost her home to foreclosure, partly because of medical problems, and partly due to the fact that neither she nor her husband has a clue what a budget is! And while I am waiting for the two of them to grow up, my poor nephew IS growing up without having ever been to Disney World! I know it sounds a little silly for me to be concerned about a Disney trip when they are renting a house instead of purchasing, but giving money to my sister and her husband has never solved their problems. She has an ex-mother-in-law and a set of current in-laws that have done that for years. My parents have, too, but they don't share how often they do it(and I don't ask). It would probably upset me. I want to give her something that my nephew will benefit from, with no strings attached. As long as I keep the contract in my name(and the maintenance fees are deducted from my bank account), my sister can enjoy it. Even though it would be a small contract, I really would hate to lose it due to some stupid financial mess my sister got into. I was thinking I would just add her on as an associate member; I believe this entitles her to make reservations with the points, but her name would not be on the deed. Is that possible? Thanks again for all the responses...you guys are the best!

 

[HM]

Mic-
Seems to me that you should just offer to make vacation plans for your sister and nephew every few years using your own points in DVC. I don't see the point in getting her involved in owning anything DVC.

Or since you seem more concerned about your nephew getting a chance to see and experience Disney....why not just take him with you on one of your trips. What a treat it would be to show him the World!

 

[mikesmom]

Really it seems like HM has the best idea here. If you co-own something with your sister and she gets in so much trouble financially that she goes bankrupt, they can come and take that contract away in bankruptcy even if you have totally paid it off - anything she "owns" is fair game for the creditors to get their money from.

If she gets in some kind of hot water that someone sues her, there are possibilities that someone could approach you in a lawsuit as co-owning some of her assets. Not to say they could win, but the expense of defending your self wouldn't be pretty.

 

[kdzgon]

I *think* Mic wants to spin off the VB contract ownership to her name only, and then add her sister's name as an associate ONLY - thus giving her permission to use it but no ownership rights (or responsibilities). I'm not sure that would have to go through ROFR, but I do think her DH might have to sign off on it. I also believe it must be unencumbered (no loans, pledges, etc) in order to do this, and there is a fee to make the deed change.

BTW, is the naming of an associate revocable? I don't know the answer, Mic, but you might want to find out this as well.

 

[RobDoc]

... I was thinking I would just add her on as an associate member; I believe this entitles her to make reservations with the points, but her name would not be on the deed. Is that possible? Thanks again for all the responses...you guys are the best!

Yes, you can add her as an associate. She would have the ability to make reservations - the confirmation would still be mailed to your address. She would have no financial (legal) interest in your contract - so there would be no repurcussions if she were to have contiuned financial difficulties. She would NOT have a membership card of be eligible for member perks beyond those extended to other onsite resort guests.

You could separate one of your contracts into your name and your sister's name. Your husband would have to approve and it would still need to go thru ROFR (although they usually rubber stamp that type of request). You would have another closing to record the deed and would have normal costs associated with that transaction. ... and once she is on the deed, she then would have member status for discounts, etc (and that contract would also be subject to any legal/financial responsibility she might incur).

 

[Mic]

Mikesmom and HM-
Of course, you're right about just making the plans for my sister every few years. Unfortunately, that is what I've been doing since mid-2004, and she always cancels at the last minute. Thanks largely to my sister, I am now very familiar with "holding points". A typical scenario for us is: my sister calls, usually looking for an overnight sitter for my nephew, about twice a month. On occassion, I have had to decline because we will be at Disney. She even once called my cell phone while I was on the monorail! She always says she wishes they could afford to go, and take my nephew, since my parents took her and her older son years ago. I always let her know when our next trip will be, and offer to make a room reservation for her(for FREE!!!). She seems excited, and tells me to go ahead. She always bails within the last 30 days, though, leaving me with holding points. She usually wants to go over a holiday, so I've been left with Christmas/New Year's points, as recently as 3 months ago! Her reasons for cancelling have been: she just started a new job, and could not take the time off work(3 times, 3 different jobs), she could not afford the tickets(twice), and she(and/or my nephew) was sick, which was the reason last December. My husband has said "No more", so I am no longer allowed to make reservations for her. I feel so bad, since I have given free rooms to everyone else in our family. Her son is the only neice/nephew on my side who has not been to Disney. And I have offered to take my nephew, but my sister insists they go as a "family". My husband thinks she is just waiting for me to pay for her room AND tickets, and he has refused to do that, too. Well, he did not refuse, per se, but he has let me know that if we pay for my sister's family of 3, then I had best be prepared to pay all expenses for his brother's family of 7 to go on our next trip!! So I am in a pickle of sorts. If I have a few points to use just for her, then my husband will not complain about me using "our" points to book her room. Also, a small contract would only allow me to book a room every other year, and if she cancels last-minute, then only those points(no more than 100) will be in holding. I will not feel guilty if she fails to re-book and loses the points. I have put in calls to 2 different DVC resalers, so hopefully a small contract will come through soon. Thanks everyone!

 

[cobbler]

From your description in the post above I wouldn't feel bad. You have given her more than ample opportunity to come and she is the one that has canceled, not you.

Plus if you put her on the contract, even as an associate, what is to prevent her from still continuing the cancelations she has been doing. This might make actual point loss, which you said you don't care if that happens. But me personally I WOULD care if I paid for the contract and the maintanence fees every year and all the points were continually lost. Might as well through that money in the fire - literally.

Adding her as an associate isn't going to make her vacation any more than giving her the free room you have tried to do so many times.

 

[LisaS]

I agree with cobbler. I think you would just be throwing your money away. If you have enough disposable income to do this then why not put the money you would have spent on the contract and annual fees into an investment account for your nephew's college education? It would do more good there than being spent on points that just get booked, canceled, go into holding and then expire year after year after year.

Good luck whatever you decide but I think your DH is making a lot of sense here.

 

[Lynne M]

I agree with cobbler. I think you would just be throwing your money away. If you have enough disposable income to do this then why not put the money you would have spent on the contract and annual fees into an investment account for your nephew's college education? It would do more good there than being spent on points that just get booked, canceled, go into holding and then expire year after year after year.

Good luck whatever you decide but I think your DH is making a lot of sense here.

LisaS, you have hit it right on the head.

OP, you have no reason to believe that your sister will ever actually USE the points that you so generously want to provide. Why spend thousands of dollars to buy the points, and then thousands of dollars in maintenance fees over the life of the contract, in the hopes that she might actually show up for a trip someday? That would be a very sad waste of money that might do your nephew some good.

You're a good person and a terrific aunt for trying to help your nephew have fun at WDW. But, having such irresponsible and immature parents, your nephew is going have a difficult life, and missing a trip to WDW is the least of his problems.

A college education is a gift that will serve him all of his life. Put the money into a college fund, and continue to offer to bring him along on your trips.

 

[Chuck S]

It sounds like it would be cheaper in the long run to pay for her trip, then pay for your Brother in law's trip, too. At least it would be a one time thing, not a continuing obligation. There is no advantage to having a small contract for her, even if completely in your name, if the points are lost on a regular basis.

We have a rule with our friends and family. We invite you along, the room is "on us" we do not charge you a fee, but if you cancel for anything short of an actual emergency, you are not invited a second time. So far, there are four folks on my never again list, one of them is a relative.