competition run amuck...6th grade choir limited to auditions?

[Rock'n Robin]

I was at DD#2's elementary school tonight for the carnival and noticed a sign noting who "made" 6th grade choir for next year (out of the current 5th graders). Seems they are limiting the 6th grade choir and only 30 kids from each elementary can make it. Well, 70 tried out so 40 kids can't sing next year! And I know of at least one girl who was sick with the flu and missed tryout day, and was given no alternatives.
DD#1 did not have to try out when she was in 6th grade, so this is a new thing. I know the size of the choir is huge, and certainly not everyone has perfect pitch, but at that age if they want to sing, shouldn't they be able to? Are they already grooming them for the select choir in HS? Are they looking for pitch, volume, enthusiasm, what?
At the junior high, if the 6th graders aren't in music they are forced to take art and living skills--then they are limiting their electives later as well (there are 8 elective choices for 8th graders, and non-music students need 5, so if they've already taken those 2 they are forced to take whtaever else is available). So these kids that didn't make choir either have to join orchestra or band (try at least $30 a month to rent an instrument) OR take those electives. What if they aren't artistic? What if they are on free/reduced lunches and can't afford an instrument? If they had a general music class option that would be different, but they don't--it's performance or nothing.
The sad thing is no one will complain because everyone is in mortal fear of the choir director--even I'm afraid if I say something, it might keep DD#1 out of the musical next year. Other parents voice the same concern--you can't complain about something she does because your kids might never get a part in the shows. Of course she would say it was talent related. I was thinking an option might be an anonymous letter to the administration/superintendent, explaining the position and that it's anonymous to avoid recriminations later. But I know anonymous letter aren't very credible regardless of the motivation. I don't know if any 5th grade parents are upset enough to say anything.
I'm getting so sick of living in a competitive district. This is just too much.
Robin M.

 

[DVC Jen]

Boy to I understand what you are saying. I think it is HORRIBLE that kids are no longer allowed to do something simple because they enjoy it..regardless of how "good" they are.

The message sent is incredibly sad. I also think it is the adults who want to be the coach, teacher, or whatever of a "successful" group that pushing this.. the kids don 't care.. they just want to enjoy what they are doing.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if acceptance was taught as a goal instead of a trophy.

 

[Cindy B]

Our district is huge... 12 elementary schools! (with most at over 500 in each school) yes, 6,000 elementary students in this district.

They have to audition for things at an early age. There is an town elementary band that you had to audition for and get recommended for, and this process starts at 4th grade. Yes, 4th grade. (and be glad your instrument rental is "only" 30 per month, my oboe is 60 per month, plus lesson fee).

Unfortunately with the district the size that it is, cuts are necessary in band and orchestra. Our choirs are huge as well, and cuts are necessary there as well. Even the sports have A and B teams so everyone plays. (or they get cut). It happens..

I'm sorry to hear that they need to audition now, but its the nature of the beast at my district.

 

[Talking Hands]

Let's see. My daughters auditioned for elementary magnet music, superintendents honors( all levels), all-state orchestra(all levels), middle school magnet music, high school music magnet, youth symphony (beginners, intermediate and senior), elementary chorus, middle school chorus and for many other things like chairs, solos and ensembles. If your child wants to do music then she needs to get used to it. There is just so big a chorus, orchestra or band can be and maintain an excellent performance level. Auditions are the norm.

 

[TNMom]

My daughter had to audition for the elementary school chorus when she was a fourth grader and was selected as a member. She also had to audition for the varsity band as an incoming ninth grader and was not chosen. It does seem harsh when it's something your child wants so badly, but I don't really see the difference between auditioning for the "arts" and sports teams. On the other hand, my children never had to audition for a spot in the church choir. My point is that there are usually other outlets for children who don't "make the other team". It's all a part of growing up.

 

[hdecker]

We have 1 elem; 1 middle; and 1 high school. When you get to Middle School you have to take 2 out of 3 choices. The choices are band; choir; and art. To be in choir you have to try out; if you don't make it that leaves you with band and art. Our school does not provide instruments or art supplies. My DD made the choir and chose to play french horn in the band at 40.00 a month. Art wasn't much better - initial supplies about 100.00 and then supplemental lists each month. What exactly are we paying taxes for? Apparently the try out thing is the growing trend everywhere.

 

[RadioNate]

I had to try out for Jr high choir and that was 15 years ago. I don't think try outs are anything new. We also had to do an "aptitude" test for band. If you didn't place well you could take art and if you didn't want that it was study hall.

 

[vettechick99]

I had to try out for Jr high choir and that was 15 years ago. I don't think try outs are anything new. We also had to do an "aptitude" test for band. If you didn't place well you could take art and if you didn't want that it was study hall.

In 6th grade (just 60 students in the grade), we also had to chose between art and band. Anyone could get into band, but you had to "audition" to get into the art class. I made it, but several of my friends didn't, so they ended up in band.

Like RadioNate said, this was 15 years ago and so it's nothing new. I think 6th grade is a great time for separating those talented kids into a class that requires a higher skill. At the same time, those with no singing ability can learn something they might really be talented in, like athletics or art. As far as I'm concerned, we need to raise our kids to be able to deal with the trials and tribulations in real life. This is one little way and doesn't seem like a huge deal.

Please don't take any offense to my words, but it's just life, ya know?

 

[sharbear]

Robin,
I don't know how big your JH is so I have no idea if it is necessary to make cuts at the 6th grade level. It sounds as if this is a new development. This is what I would do. You should have a music liasion to the school board. If you don't know how this is call the music association president and ask who that person is. Talk to them about your concerns and ask if they know about the changes in the JH (a lot of times no one but the choir director knows that any changes have taken place). Give them your concerns and say that you just want all of the children in the JH to have the opportunity to try choir as an elective.

Our JH has a requirement of one semester of music for everyone. The purpose of JH (at my school) is for all of the kids to see what the opportunities for electives are at the HS level. So every kid take a variety of electives and then at the HS level they have choices. We also have a HS choir that has no cuts but we have a small HS and there are very few cuts in any activity.

Personally, it sounds like the choir director is a bit of a despot.

 

[Poohnatic]

We had auditions for chorus in elementary school. It was limited to 4-6th grades (back in the day that 6th was elementary). I auditioned every year, made it in every year, but only participated one year because the art club met at the same time.

In 7th and 8th grade, a music class was required:General Music (basically, music theory), Band, Orchestra or Chorus. Our 7th grade chorus wasn't audition and there were kids who just did it because the general music teacher had a rep as being horrible (she just was a good teacher who didn't let anyone slack off).

While I understand your worry about kids not making chorus, I think it's a good life lesson that we parents can use. A child not making it could be better at art, sports, computers, etc...and encouraging their skills in another area is always good.

I'm probaby in the minority that I appreciate that my kids aren't cushioned from rejection-I think it opens up a good dialogue with my kids and will make them better adults.

Suzanne

 

[grinningghost]

I think it's terrible. Auditions should be for high school choirs. There's no reason for them in 6th grade. In a group, the good singers can balance out the not-so-good singers and it will sound fine - or fine enough for 6th grade.

No wonder kids develop self esteem problems so much these days.

 

[DisDuck]

I may be in the minority but I believe in auditions at all levels for chorus/band in school. Why? because if child has some talent and wishes to continue then auditions help set standards and guidelines, ie. Not Just Anyone Can Make It.

This opinion is formed from my youngest daughter's experiences over the last 10-11 years. She is a vocal major in college. She started with 4th grade chorus which required a test to enter then regular chorus in middle school which also required test. Now without the test just anyone could join even if could not sing. Interesting enough this happens in HS where chorus is an elective subject opened to anyone. A fairly easy A class so at one point the general chorus grew to 150 members and had to be split into 2 separate periods. In her senior year she had to support the entire soprano 1 section. Even moved for a time to the soprano 2 section as they were weak.

When she was looking at colleges she rejected any that did not require an audition for admission into the BM program as she figured that how good could it really be if anyone can enter. Also, if she turned out to be the 'best' then what kind of training would she get.

On top of this I do think it is important to learn 'No' you didn't make it at a young age. In this way if something is important enough to you then set goals and steps to reach that goal. I know of several students in my daughter's HS class who would never pass college or community theater auditions and yet think they are good because 'I' spent 4 years in chorus and always got an A.

 

[disykat]

I think it's sad, but to expect a music teacher to single handedly handle 70 kids is not realistic in today's schools. Maybe you can talk to the teacher and see if you can set up a volunteer schedule to help with supervision etc. so that more children could participate?

 

[Karel]

In our elementary school, chorus is an extension of music class. The fourth graders sing a couple of songs for the concert. The fifth and sixth graders are one big chorus. We also do a big musical that has try outs and cuts but there's always a place for someone who wants to sing and dance.

There should be a place for kids who just want to sing, even if they are not particually good. Just as there should be a place for kids to do sports. Our town sports do not require tryouts and cuts. There's plenty of time for that when they are older.

Shouldn't the 'arts' be about expressing one's self and finding joy in one's performance?

In the middle school, chorus is taken as a class for anyone. There are also higher levels, like the Madrigal singers and Jazz band, for those who want to take it to a higher level.

 

[tar heel]

Karel said: There should be a place for kids who just want to sing, even if they are not particually good. Just as there should be a place for kids to do sports.

I totally agree with you. Middle school students are children and they should be encouraged to explore a variety of things. I strongly believe that there should be opportunities for all the kids. If 70 kids try out for 7th grade basketball, as they did when my son was in that grade, then there should be six teams. Ditto for chorus -- have two of them.

Cindy B -- I consider your school system to be small. We have twice that many kids in elementary school.

 

[jgmklmhem]

When I was in Middle school about 15 years ago we had concert choir which had to be auditioned for and then general choir for anyone else who wanted to sing. The same was true of band we had beginner, intermediate, and concert bands as well. You auditioned to move into the higher bands. I think competition is in many ways a good thing and has been taken out of the school in other ways (we are all winners all the time type teaching). This type of teaching is what I think more harshly hurts kids self esteem in the long run because they are never taught that losing does sometimes happen and you cannot be at the top of the heap in everything all the time thus when they don't make the choir, the baseball team etc they are crushed even more because they weren't aptly prepared for any sort of "failure."

 

[Rock'n Robin]

I am just worried about those kids that do love to sing and aren't in the top tier. I agree with having "audition" choirs later on, but not so early. There is so much talk about the arts and how they are being cut left and right these days. Well, in our district the arts are very popular. I hate to see a kid disheartened and not caring about music anymore.
I was in the select choir in HS. I know there is a big difference between select and general choirs. But I think there is a place for both. One of my BFs in high school was tone deaf but she was in choir through grade 12--general, not select.
The jr. high has about 300 kids in each grade. There is one choir director (who I privately refer to as "her highness") and an assistant. He handles the 6th grade choir. Each grade level has 2 periods of choir so at no time do they have all 100 kids in one room--for example 7th grade choir is periods 6 and 9. There are also 2 band directors plus one half-time. They use the scheduling policy to push music performance but now they are limiting the choirs.
These kids are just transitioning from elementary to jr. high in 6th grade. Even the sports teams don't cut until grade 7 (if a kid wants to play basketball and isn't good enough for travel, she/he can play house through grade 6).
We have a select choir at our elementary for 5th graders that is audition only. I think DD#2 may try out and if she doesn't make it, she'll be prepared for this too. But the non-music options are very limited. If you only take non-music electives, you'll be forced to take every non-music elective there is, and some of them are just not my girls--esp. art and industrial tech. They can both dance, and DD#1 can really sing well, but all 3 of my kids are pretty much limited to stick figures!
I appreciate the input. I don't know if anything can be done about this, but if not, at least I know it's not uncommon for 6th graders to have to audition.
Robin M.

 

[olena]

I had to audition for choir in 6th grade and that was 20 years ago. My best friend auditioned and didn't make it. She sang with her church choir until a spot came open in the school choir. She got in a few months later.

Conducting a huge choir is a big challenge and I can't even imagine trying it with a huge group of children.

 

[Hippychickali]

The way I see it is, you have several choices. If you legitimately concerned about the children who would like to sing but don't make the cut, you could always work at forming an "intermural" choir or approach your PTA to see about this sort of thing. As well, many churches have children's choirs and you don't have to audition for those.

I agree with many other posters who see auditions as being positive. Children should be rewarded for their talents. Those who excel academically make the honour roll. Those who excel in sports make the team. Those who excel in music get accepted into musical programs.

Ali

 

[Cindy B]

Karel said: There should be a place for kids who just want to sing, even if they are not particually good. Just as there should be a place for kids to do sports.

I totally agree with you. Middle school students are children and they should be encouraged to explore a variety of things. I strongly believe that there should be opportunities for all the kids. If 70 kids try out for 7th grade basketball, as they did when my son was in that grade, then there should be six teams. Ditto for chorus -- have two of them.

Cindy B -- I consider your school system to be small. We have twice that many kids in elementary school.

We're one town, not a huge township. We are the biggest district in the county here. Its not as large as an urban city, but we are one suburb town.