Community College vs University

[CJMickeyMouse]

Originally posted by ripleysmom

In your area, high school doesn't either according to you. Just because the schools in your area are inadequate does not mean that schools in other areas are.

My opinions are based on my area.... I did not say that it applied everywhere. If there are CC's that adequately prepare students for professional school, then students in that area should by all means attend them.

On the flip side.... ALL CC's certainly are not created equally.

Honestly, does anyone know a doctor or lawyer who completed their first two years of study at a CC and did not have to make up ground upon transfering? I imagine it could happen... but does it?

 

[Cindy B]

I have no problem with a CC., in fact I am taking two classes right now.


I went to a neighboring county CC, a long time ago, 13 years ago to be exact. I wanted to get some education classes and my 60 credits as a requirement for my position in the school system.

Once I get my 60 done, (Only 5 classes after these 2), I will have some certification that the school likes to see, and I can also do some other things.

I know that Rutgers will take my credits. In fact my professor now (an excellent one!) has a PhD. in mathmatics, and also teaches at Rutgers Camden. I would never consider her a "bottom feeder".

I worked at a university, and some adjuncts were well.. out there. Some were excellent, hard working, and really gave the students much time and attention.

 

[DonnaS]

Honestly, does anyone know a doctor or lawyer who completed their first two years of study at a CC and did not have to make up ground upon transfering? I imagine it could happen... but does it?

Yes, I know doctors and at least one lawyer who completed their first two years at a CC. Did they have to "make up ground?" That depends on what you mean by that. Did they have to retake courses? No. Did they take 5 years to get their BS or BA? In some cases, but so did some of those who went straight to a 4-year university.

 

[CourtasanSatine]

there's also the money factor:I'm on leave from junior college thanks to lack of cash.But I may take one class in the fall term to keep my hours current.But the best part was meeting my DBF at a campus function

 

[ripleysmom]

"My opinions are based on my area.... I did not say that it applied everywhere. If there are CC's that adequately prepare students for professional school, then students in that area should by all means attend them."

That's right you didn't say it related to all areas. However, you do seem to be making a generalization about the CCs from your own area.

You indicate that they must not be good enough since most kids at the CCs in your area don't go on to a 4 year school. I have a couple of questions for you about that...

Do you have statistics from the CCs in your area to back up your assertions?

Are you sure that none of those kids that you are citing as examples did not instead go back to school after a haitus or return to school at night?

What about the children who didn't move on, were they able to get good jobs with their degree?


"On the flip side.... ALL CC's certainly are not created equally."

No they are not.


"Honestly, does anyone know a doctor or lawyer who completed their first two years of study at a CC and did not have to make up ground upon transfering? I imagine it could happen... but does it?"

Why couldn't or shouldn't that happen? You make it sound like if they do, they must be a bargain basement professional or something.

If someone wants to go on to school to become a doctor or lawyer, what the heck is wrong with them taking some of those initial credits at a less expensive school? Not everyone is ready to open a vein or even has one to open when it comes to college for their children.

Also, you might want to consider that starting out in a CC might help a child to attend a better 4 year institution for the rest of their academic career.

 

[AirForceRocks]

Honestly, does anyone know a doctor or lawyer who completed their first two years of study at a CC and did not have to make up ground upon transfering?

Hmmm...I don't know. I'm more interested in which medical school granted their degree than I am in which school they attended to study World Literature and Speech 101.

 

[CJMickeyMouse]

Originally posted by ripleysmom


"Do you have statistics from the CCs in your area to back up your assertions?"

No.

"Are you sure that none of those kids that you are citing as examples did not instead go back to school after a haitus or return to school at night?"

Yes.

"What about the children who didn't move on, were they able to get good jobs with their degree?"

What's the definition of a good job? If they want to stay in our area where the cost of living is low, then they can make enough to do OK.


"Why couldn't or shouldn't that happen? You make it sound like if they do, they must be a bargain basement professional or something. "

"If someone wants to go on to school to become a doctor or lawyer, what the heck is wrong with them taking some of those initial credits at a less expensive school? Not everyone is ready to open a vein or even has one to open when it comes to college for their children. "

"Also, you might want to consider that starting out in a CC might help a child to attend a better 4 year institution for the rest of their academic career."

BINGO. If a student plans on having the two years of CC to equal two years in their chosen four year university, then they need to do a lot of research and make sure the CC has what they need.

 

[ripleysmom]

"No."

Then don't make claims you can't back up. Until you can provide proof for your assertions, you should keep your prejudices to yourself.

I'm curious to know how many is many? Knowing SOME kids who didn't go on to a 4 year school does not constitute many especially in a CC.


"Are you sure that none of those kids that you are citing as examples did not instead go back to school after a haitus or return to school at night?"

Yes."

Once again that "many" keeps rearing its ugly head. You kept in touch with EACH one of those many and followed their careers that closely?


"What's the definition of a good job? If they want to stay in our area where the cost of living is low, then they can make enough to do OK."

How would you know that they didn't? You obviously do not know how many students fail to go on to 4 year school, how would you know how many are not successful?


"BINGO. If a student plans on having the two years of CC to equal two years in their chosen four year university, then they need to do a lot of research and make sure the CC has what they need."

And who's to say that some of those poorly educated children from your area don't do exactly that, especially considering their low cost of living.

 

[maleficent1959]

Originally posted by beachbunny
Katerkat, I totally agree that some cc professors are excellent. One problem is that cc's can't keep the good ones because they're lured away by higher paying university positions. Another problem is that most cc's rely heavily on adjuncts who don't have doctorates and/or are not trained teachers in order to keep costs down -- with adjuncts, it's hit or miss.

That may be true in business or the sciences. That's not the case in my field. Many of our friends from graduate school are/were unable to find tenure-track positions at universities even now (we graduated in 1997 and 1998). More and more jobs in our field have gone to one-year temporary positions based on funding or adjunct (if they aren't being taught by graduate students). It's just cheaper for departments who are looking to cut costs.

One friend finally had some success after four years at a CC on a reservation in New Mexico. Many of them have gone to CC because the salary is on par with universities, occasionally better, and they don't have to worry about finding another job in a year.
My DH was very lucky to find a tenure-track position right out of graduate school. The year he graduated he applied for every position in his specialization we saw advertised -- a grand total of nine. It helped that his PhD is in a growing field, there are not many folks with PhDs in that particular specialization, and that he went to the best school in the country for his area of interest. Even with that, there were over 500 applicants. If these people want to stay in academics, they have to go somewhere. The universities are just churning out more PhDs than the academic job market can bear.

 

[CJMickeyMouse]

Originally posted by ripleysmom


And who's to say that some of those poorly educated children from your area don't do exactly that, especially considering their low cost of living.

Nobody! Geez is this the debate board? LOL!

You don't know my area (OBVIOUSLY) and I don't feel the need to justify everything to you.

CC's are perfect for some, a last resort for others. Why is that wrong???

IMO, if a student has the academics, funds, focus and maturity to go to a four year school out of high school, then they should do just that.

 

[Ilove8Trax]

I went to a community college for 2 years and recieved my Associates degree. It was worth it. I was able to explore options, it was less expensive, and a good education.

"Quality, Affordability, Personal Attention, that's the Delta Difference" was the motto for the comm. college. The school was Delta College.

 

[Tiggeroo]

Like most have said, it depends. Before you start at the community college, if you know what 4yr school you want to go to do some research. Meet with their admissions department to see how they feel about cc transfers and also show them the courses you are planning to take. Remember, when you apply for your first job, what they will be looking at is where you graduated from. Not if you spent two years in a cc.
Community Colleges are great for unsure students who want to pursue college but really have no idea what they want to do. For not alot of money you can take a variety of courses and find your interests. They are also good for students who struggled in high school or did not take college prep classes. The small class size can help you build your confidence.
But, also as others have said you will miss out on the regular college experience. If you are a traditional high school student with pretty decent grades and it is a money issue apply to some other schools as well, especially your in-state schools. Then apply for aid and see what package is available. You may be pleasantly surprised to find you can afford one of these schools.
There are some fields where the school you graduated from makes a difference. But this really only matter so much with your first job or two. Then your resume will become the dominant thing.
I have a dd who is attending the local state college. She had choices and selected this. Her career path definitely includes grad school. So she found out the grad schools she wanted, and checked the stats at the college she is attending to see their acceptance rate at these schools. She then calculated the savings and decided that cheaper undergrad would give her more money to spend on grad school.

 

[Pin Wizard]

Originally posted by CJMickeyMouse
Honestly, does anyone know a doctor or lawyer who completed their first two years of study at a CC and did not have to make up ground upon transfering? I imagine it could happen... but does it?

There was a guy in my bio lab who's headed to be a doctor. He's a medic right now. Can't imagine why he's in a community college if he thought he'd have to make up much.

 

[Pin Wizard]

Originally posted by Cindy B
In fact my professor now (an excellent one!) has a PhD. in mathmatics, and also teaches at Rutgers Camden. I would never consider her a "bottom feeder".

I worked at a university, and some adjuncts were well.. out there. Some were excellent, hard working, and really gave the students much time and attention.

My professor for Algebra also has his Ph.D. He's a wonderful teacher. As a matter of fact, this is the 2nd class I've taken with him. I had another math "professor" I learned was actually fired from a local high school. I'll never take another one of his classes again. He stunk. And I've had an adjunct for Biology and lab. She's fantastic! She works with us as much as we need for things to click. As a matter of fact, she met with me during Spring Break so I would get it! How many professors would do that!?

 

[Pin Wizard]

Originally posted by maleficent1959
The universities are just churning out more PhDs than the academic job market can bear.

And I'm amazed at how may careers require a Masters! What can you do without a Masters these days? Pump gas and work at Burger King? I'm really interested in being a career/guidance counselor on the college level. After talking with my counselor, he informed me that I would need a Masters and 6 years of schooling!

 

[ripleysmom]

"Nobody! Geez is this the debate board? LOL!"

No it isn't. I just don't consider it to be unreasonable to back up your claims. Especially when they do not appear to be grounded in any reality other than some kids you know.


"You don't know my area (OBVIOUSLY) and I don't feel the need to justify everything to you."

Actually from what you post about your school system, the poor kids coming from your area are lucky they learned to walk and chew gum at the same time.

I don't think it's wrong of me to want you to justify your claims that "the ONLY kids that go to CC in our area are the ones who (for whatever reason) could not 'cut it' right away in a four year university. I have known many that said they would continue their education after two years at CC, but none of them have." especially when those claims are obviously not grounded in fact.


"CC's are perfect for some, a last resort for others. Why is that wrong???"

It's not wrong but that is not what you initially said. You said that all the kids who attended CC in your area couldn't initially hack it in a 4 year school. Once again without statistics to back it up you should refrain from trying to pass off your prejudice as fact.


"IMO, if a student has the academics, funds, focus and maturity to go to a four year school out of high school, then they should do just that."

And if you had posted that initially we would not have had to have this discussion.

 

[CJMickeyMouse]

Originally posted by ripleysmom




"I don't think it's wrong of me to want you to justify your claims that "the ONLY kids that go to CC in our area are the ones who (for whatever reason) could not 'cut it' right away in a four year university. I have known many that said they would continue their education after two years at CC, but none of them have." especially when those claims are obviously not grounded in fact. "

Actually I think it is wrong of you. I could make one quick phone call and give you the statistics and info you want... but why bother? You would just say I was lying and making them up.

"Once again without statistics to back it up you should refrain from trying to pass off your prejudice as fact."

I don't need you telling me what to do, and it is not a prejudice, it is a fact. Until you get a great deal more information about the area in which I live, you don't have any reason to pass judgement on what I say. Maybe you are the one with the prejudice???!? Just a thought.

Have a great day!

 

[Disney845]

Originally posted by CJMickeyMouse
IMO, if a student has the academics, funds, focus and maturity to go to a four year school out of high school, then they should do just that.

I honestly do not think that CC are just for those people who can't "hack it" in a University. To give you a little back ground on me before I explain my views. I was in the top 5% of my graduating class of approximately 600. I took honors and AP classes, was in GSP, took dual enrollment classes, impressive SAT and ACT scores, and was involved in lots of academically geared extracurricular. I was guaranteed the FL merit scholarship, but I was going to toss that aside for what I thought to be the path I was destined to take. All my top university choices were out of state. I was accepted to every one of them. During my senior year my grandmother, who lived with us, was diagnosed with cancer. My mother had to work, so I was the only one who was available to take her to her chemo and radiation appointments. I did not go away to college like I had planned on. Instead I went to my local CC so that I could stay at home and help with the responsibility of caring for my grandmother. I would be lying to say that I wasn't extremely discouraged and mad at the whole situation. Before starting classes at the CC you needed to meet with a counselor to discuss what classes you would need to take. I sat down in the counselor’s office, and she brought out my high school transcripts to discuss what credits I would have coming in from my AP scores and dual enrollment. She took one look at it and turned to me and said, "Why in the world are YOU attending a CC?" I lost it and started crying right there.

I was so sure that everything I had worked for was going to be over, that the AP grades and SAT scores wouldn't matter any more, and that I was resigned to a second rate education. I was going to the CC, the place where the athletes who weren't scholarship material, or the dumb pretty girls, or the class slackers were going, when all of my friends were attending 4-year schools. I was angry at the world, and felt horrible at the same time, because I blamed much of my anger on my grandmother. November of my first semester at the CC my grandmother passed away. I can't even explain how badly I felt that in my mind, even if I had never vocalized it, I blamed her. I decided that since I was currently going to school for free I might as well continue at the CC. I finished the AA degree in a year graduating with a 4.0 average and transferred to a FL state university. Because of the agreement FL state schools have with all FL accredited CC, all of my credits transferred, and I was able to start in as a junior when most people I had gone to HS with were still working on their sophomore year.

I agree that I never got to experience the dorm living, or the frat party lifestyle, but that was never who I was anyways. I wasn't into all that stuff. I intend to graduate early with my BA in Dec. with two majors. After which I am considering one of two paths, either a masters in one or both of my undergrad majors or law school. And let me tell you something, I will have no "CATCHING UP" to do if I do decide to become a lawyer.

I do think that if circumstances were different and I was able to go off to a University right out of high school I would have most definitely done so. The reasons that I did not go right to University however do not fit into your mold for the CC student. I didn’t have academic troubles, or money troubles, or maturity troubles, or trouble deciding what I wanted to do with my life. I was needed somewhere. Somewhere that was more important than N.O. or Boston, or D.C. I think to classify all CC students as kids who "can't hack it" is doing a serious disservice to the academic community.

Not all CC are pillars of academia, but again not all Universities are those either. I think it is more important to look at a school's worth first, then judge a student based on their performance within those parameters, instead of lumping all CC students into the lot of "losers who can't hack it at a BIG time University" like I once thought.

 

[CJMickeyMouse]

Originally posted by Disney845

Not all CC are pillars of academia, but again not all Universities are those either. I think it is more important to look at a school's worth first, then judge a student based on their performance within those parameters, instead of lumping all CC students into the lot of "losers who can't hack it at a BIG time University" like I once thought.

Disney845, I appreciate your sharing your story and I definitely do understand where you are coming from. You were/are an excellent student who put in a lot of work before you entered CC. You then had someone who knew what they were doing help you out with guidance. CC filled a gap for you, when things in your life sent you on a course different than you had planned.

It sounds as if you were not only an unusual CC student, but an unusual college student all the way around. And please take that in the complimentary way that is it meant.