Communities with an HOA

[Kestryl]

Rules can change. A relative of mine bought a house in an HSA. They started requiring specific toned Christmas lights and banned inflatables. It just took a simple majority from the number of people who showed up to a board meeting.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

According to the OP he is in clear violation of the rules, and the HOA has attempted to get him to remove it. She also says he does this "sometimes" so there are other places that truck is parked at other times.
His personal issues are just that- personal. The HOA and his neighbors are not responsible for dealing with his personal issues. He is. Why does the OP and everyone else have to "let" him break rules they are all expected to follow? What happens when it's another neighbor and then another.
There is a reason there are rules in place and if a person isn't willing to follow them, even at an inconvenience, then do your neighbors a favor and move somewhere else.

It's easy to give a pass to someone when it doesn't effect you personally.
I wonder how many change their tune when it does.

Yes, all of this is according to the OP. There are two sides to every story and OP may not know all of the details of what has been said between the truck owner and the HOA. Maybe the two are actually trying to work together to reach a compromise and OP isn't privy to that info.

I agree that everyone is responsible for their own issues, but at the same time, a little understanding can go a long way.

Sometimes it isn't so easy to just move somewhere else, especially if you own your home and still owe money on it. There are really so many factors that come into play with selling your home, finding a new one, work responsibilities, expense, etc. It's not something most people can just do at the drop of the hat.

I'll address your last 2 sentences further down.

True but that's a case for where impartiality needs to rule.

If the OP had a newborn baby and the beeping woke the baby up everyone who says the tow truck driver should be left alone it may be him supporting his family, etc would they now flip the switch and say "well but the OP has a newborn baby and they're just trying to get sleep when they can and they have work to go to, etc?"

I've been in that exact same situation. It wasn't an HOA, but at our last house, we were awoken every morning at 5 am from a tow truck driving neighbor a few doors down backing out of his driveway to get to work. On top of that, every Friday, we also listened to a garbage truck as early as 4 am when it began emptying the dumpsters at the businesses behind our house. And in the winter, the guy across the street owned a snow plow and would plow his and our next door neighbor's driveways at all hours of the night and he had the backup beeps too (and it was even more annoying since he and to make multiple backups for both his and the other neighbor's driveway). I got pregnant shortly after we moved there and lived there until my youngest was almost 4 and my oldest was 9. When DS was an infant, he was repeatedly woken up from the sounds, as was DD who had to be up a couple hours later for school. So yes, I have been there with an infant who was being woken up. It did suck, but we managed, and after being friendly with the tow truck driver, he was willing to make some changes that disrupted us less, and we understood more about his situation and how this was how he was supporting his family. Even if I did live in a HOA, I never would have personally complained to them about those issues as I wouldn't want to impact someone else's ability to support their family.

Likewise, at that same house, we were in a situation where DH was away for work for 5 weeks and our yard did not get mowed. I at the time couldn't even push an empty grocery cart, let alone a lawn mower, DD was 6 and DD was 1 so they couldn't do it, didn't have family or friends nearby who could do it, and literally could not afford to pay anyone what they wanted to do it. I tried, offering my last $20 up front to a neighbor kid and another $20 when DH's paycheck came in a week later. Tried bartering tools and babysitting services with neighbors in return for mowing. No dice. I don't know what else I could have possibly done and had it been an HOA and they gave me a fine, it would have made it that much harder to simply buy diapers, water, and food. No, it's no one else's problem to fix anyone else's personal situations, but at the same time a little understanding in not doing something that will contribute to someone else's hardships (ie complaints that result in a fine or difficulty in someone going to work) can go a long way.

@Hikergirl It's easy to complain about someone else when you don't personally understand their situation. I wonder how many people change their tune when they too are in a tough situation.

 

[Colleen27]

Thank you. This is kind of my point. Why would anyone move into a community knowing what the HOA rules are, but assume it's okay if they don't abide by them? You read the rules and made a decision that was right for you. Perfectly reasonable!

Yeah, I don't get that either, though I know in some areas it is hard to find non-HOA communities in desirable areas/school districts so I suppose some people figure they'll roll the dice on lax enforcement to get a home in the right location. And I know sometimes HOA rules do change. The friend I mentioned in my first post bought in what was meant to be a "family" neighborhood, but they were among the first to move in... then the bottom dropped out of the housing market and the developer ended up scaling down the size of the planned community, eliminating some of the family amenities (playgrounds and such), and selling a LOT of the remaining homes to older people. So the rules ended up being very family un-friendly - some because of the change in community amenities, like the "no play structures" rule that seemed okay when there was a playground going in just down the street that was a problem now that the closest park was miles away, and some because the HOA board ended up full of older adults who were unsympathetic to/intolerant of families with young kids. At one point, they passed a "no sidewalk chalk" rule. The "no chain link" rule became no fences at all, to "preserve the natural beauty" of the community. Bikes and skateboards and scooters weren't allowed on sidewalks. But my friend was stuck living with it because they bought near the peak of the market and were deeply underwater on it for a long time, and since this all happened just before we got into the market for our "forever" house, it really soured me on HOAs.

But in your case, it sounds like exactly the kind of thing HOA rules are meant to prevent.

And how exactly is his horrid rule breaking hurting the op?

Not being able to sleep through the night because of a commercial back-up beeper would be hard on most people, I think. And those things aren't quiet - 100dB is pretty average for a backup alert system, and that's just as loud as a tractor, an ATV or a lawnmower, none of which would be acceptable in a residential area in the middle of the night.

 

[MamaBelle4]

Speaking of the rule change, OP mentioned she just moved in a couple of months ago. How do we know the rules didn't change relatively recently, and he had been able to park his work truck there previously, for everybody saying you know the rules when you move in. The rules change sometimes. But that doesn't mean working or living situations change.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I've been in that exact same situation. It wasn't an HOA, but at our last house, we were awoken every morning at 5 am from a tow truck driving neighbor a few doors down backing out of his driveway to get to work. On top of that, every Friday, we also listened to a garbage truck as early as 4 am when it began emptying the dumpsters at the businesses behind our house. And in the winter, the guy across the street owned a snow plow and would plow his and our next door neighbor's driveways at all hours of the night and he had the backup beeps too (and it was even more annoying since he and to make multiple backups for both his and the other neighbor's driveway). I got pregnant shortly after we moved there and lived there until my youngest was almost 4 and my oldest was 9. When DS was an infant, he was repeatedly woken up from the sounds, as was DD who had to be up a couple hours later for school. So yes, I have been there with an infant who was being woken up. It did suck, but we managed, and after being friendly with the tow truck driver, he was willing to make some changes that disrupted us less, and we understood more about his situation and how this was how he was supporting his family. Even if I did live in a HOA, I never would have personally complained to them about those issues as I wouldn't want to impact someone else's ability to support their family.

Likewise, at that same house, we were in a situation where DH was away for work for 5 weeks and our yard did not get mowed. I at the time couldn't even push an empty grocery cart, let alone a lawn mower, DD was 6 and DD was 1 so they couldn't do it, didn't have family or friends nearby who could do it, and literally could not afford to pay anyone what they wanted to do it. I tried, offering my last $20 up front to a neighbor kid and another $20 when DH's paycheck came in a week later. Tried bartering tools and babysitting services with neighbors in return for mowing. No dice. I don't know what else I could have possibly done and had it been an HOA and they gave me a fine, it would have made it that much harder to simply buy diapers, water, and food. No, it's no one else's problem to fix anyone else's personal situations, but at the same time a little understanding in not doing something that will contribute to someone else's hardships (ie complaints that result in a fine or difficulty in someone going to work) can go a long way.

The role of the HOA should be to impose things with no bias..we know that doesn't always happen but that's the original intent.

I have a good relationship with most of my neighbors (there's one that no one has a good relationship with but their home is on the market soooo). Anyways truly there's only so much that relationship should count for. My point was everyone can have their own story..at some point those stories may not make any sense to be considered.

What's being said here is the tow truck driver who may be doing this and may be doing that should have more consideration towards them than the OP. But what if the OP had their own thing and I'm not just meaning this OP in particular but in general. What if the person's livilihood depended on getting as much good sleep as possible through the night because of their job and the beeping was keeping them up or they were trying to sell their home and this commercial vehicle was impacting their ability to get the selling price they could get and no one knows if that selling price is truly important for that person's overall financial well being. Who wins out there? That's why sometimes it really becomes easier to leave out those backstories. Sounds like from the OP's HOA the beeping, which I would probably perceive to be a bigger issue to me, isn't against the rules it's that the vehicle should be in the garage not on the driveway. BUT I totally understand the frustration of having to deal with that day in and day out.

I'm not saying people shouldn't feel like they can't talk to each other but nor am I going to take a hard and fast never going to complain to the HOA or never complain to the HOA without talking to someone first stance. It's usually a case by case basis.

 

[sam_gordon]

Speaking of the rule change, OP mentioned she just moved in a couple of months ago. How do we know the rules didn't change relatively recently, and he had been able to park his work truck there previously, for everybody saying you know the rules when you move in. The rules change sometimes. But that doesn't mean working or living situations change.

Can HOAs change the rules without notifying home owners? I doubt it.

 

[soccerdad72]

Can HOAs change the rules without notifying home owners? I doubt it.

Not without a majority vote of the homeowners, normally. I don't have time to sift through our HOA Bylaws, but I'm sure there's specific language in that regard.

 

[piccolopat]

Live in a truck stop? Seriously? A bit over dramatic there don’t ya think? Extenuating circumstances like not having another way to work? He is being selfish and entitled because he is going to work? Wow. How is it a nuisance?
If seeing a truck every day is “ horrid”, then there are bigger issues here than a truck. Goodness. And some work trucks are newer and better looking than personally owned vehicles. So again, over dramatic.

Sorry but this neighbor should either find a place outside of the HOA neighborhood to store his commercial truck or move to an area where they are permitted. The OP is disturbed by the late night beeping when he backs up in addition to the eyesore of having a large commercial truck in a residential neighborhood. It's isn't the OP's responsibility to get used to the noise, it is the offending neighbor's responsibility to abide by the rules he signed up for.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Speaking of the rule change, OP mentioned she just moved in a couple of months ago. How do we know the rules didn't change relatively recently, and he had been able to park his work truck there previously, for everybody saying you know the rules when you move in. The rules change sometimes. But that doesn't mean working or living situations change.

Sometimes you'll have things that get grandfathered in and other changes that there is no leeway towards that. Regardless for our HOA any changes have to be added as an admendment to the existing covenents and refiled through the City. All residents are notified of such changes.

 

[piccolopat]

Sure. Couldn't afford groceries or the mortgage payment but we could afford to hire someone to landscape for us. No, sometimes things are outside of your control. We survived on me earning $10/hour working 60-70 hour weeks and the literal $67 a week my DH got in WC because he was injured working a part time job he took on to save money for when I was on maternity leave. So I don't know how miraculously you would have managed but I felt pretty good that I saved our house the 9 months he was out of work. Landscapers cost money, but compassion is free. Even $20 to a neighbor kid was out of the question for us.

Thank God I don't live in an HOA, and if I did, I wouldn't care about someone violating the rules as long as they weren't breaking the law. You absolutely never know what someone else is going through.

As painful as your situation was, it would still be your responsibility to have the grass cut. If you had a decent relationship with your neighbors up until then they would probably help out for free. If not, explaining it to the HOA might have brought about solutions that hadn't occurred to you. For example, many HS kids have to earn a number of service hours for graduation and one of them might have cut lawns to earn theirs. I don't think it would be unreasonable if the grass was only cut biweekly and so was a little longer than the rules may have required. I do think it would be unreasonable if it wasn't cut for a month.

If you don't already have it, consider buying long term disability insurance. It could have alleviated some of the financial strain you faced.

 

[Kestryl]

Can HOAs change the rules without notifying home owners? I doubt it.

It probably varies by HOA. In my aunt’s case, according to hers, they need a quorum of 2/3 of unit owners to vote, and then a rule could pass with 50% vote of the vote. So if there were 30 units, 20 needed to show up, and only 11 had to vote yes for it to pass. Also, Each unit was limited to one person- so a arrived couple couldn’t get two votes, for example. It was per unit.

 

[Disneypro1]

Can HOAs change the rules without notifying home owners? I doubt it.

Maybe. But all that is winnable in court if it’s a silly rule. HOA or not. A good lawyer will shoot a silly rule down asap. IE. Color of house. Or flag flying. Things like putting a trailer by your house would not be winnable.

 

[luvflorida]

I was a STAUNCH anti-HOA person. That is, until my neighbor built a wall hard up against or driveway making it unusable. Although he broke several city codes doing it, the city would do nothing because it was under 4 feet high. So...off to court we go. It's been 6 months so far and it will be another 2 before our attorney even meets with a judge, probably another 6 months before he will have to take the wall out. We're out of pocket $10K in legal fees already and expect that to double. We have a very strong case, but that's no guarantee. Do I wish we lived in an HOA community where the community would have gone to bat for me? Yes, a thousand times yes.

Hang in there - it sounds like the HOA will take care of it for you.

Wow, I'm sorry you have to deal with this. That's just awful.

And we wonder why there are so many threads over the years about people not getting along with their neighbors. Good grief.
If the worst thing a neighbor does is park a truck he uses for work in his driveway, consider yourself lucky and move on with your day. It really isn’t effecting you even if he is breaking a rule.

And how exactly is his horrid rule breaking hurting the op?

The bottom line is that consideration for other’s lives and reasons would go along way in getting along. But hey, if she has no issue making an enemy, more power to her. I wasn’t aware that my OPINION was somehow forcing her into anything.

No. I think that it would be a much better world if people at least tried to get along. “Reporting” your neighbor for a truck doesn’t do this.
She has every right to be bothered about the truck. She has ever right to be bothered if he planted blue flowers instead of red flowers. Doesn’t mean that the best course of action is to do something that causes a great inconvenience to her neighbor and just maybe she should find that out before pressing the issue.

I am still waiting for someone to tell me how it’s hurting the OP.
And if him parking a truck in his driveway makes her his enemy then the problem is not the truck.
And if you bothered to read—I said there may be extenuating circumstances that she doesn’t k ow about.
Not thinking every rule is a life or death situation isn’t being hypocritical, it’s being reasonable.

Wow, so much I'd like to address here, but first and foremost: We live in a community with an HOA that has covenants/rules/bylaws that very clearly state that commercial vehicles must be parked or stored so that they are not visible from any street or other property within the community. If further states that any vehicle that falls under the description of a commercial vehicle must be parked in a garage. Before we put our house under contract, we read the declaration of covenants for our community. We felt the rules were reasonable and we had no issues abiding by them, so we bought the house. Crazy as it might seem to some people, we assumed that everyone else buying houses in the community had also read the declaration of convenants and would follow them.

I agree with you that everyone needs to be considerate of others, but you make it sound as if WE are the ones being inconsiderate. We have done nothing wrong. On the other hand, we have a neighbor that is being completely inconsiderate by ignoring the HOA rules, and thinking it's okay to do so.

How is this hurting us?

The truck is big, unsightly and looks very out of place parked in the neighborhood. It is loud when coming and going at all hours of the day and night, and we can clearly hear the beeping mechanism from inside our house. It is parked right up against our property line, so that when we are doing anything in the front yard, the cab of the truck is right there. There have been a few times when the truck was partially blocking the sidewalk. Even after installing a 6-foot privacy fence on that side of our house, we can still see the row of flashing lights on top of the truck and hear the beeping. Down the line, when we decide to sell our house, it certainly won't be a selling point to have this commercial vehicle parked beside it. So, yes it does affect us.

I have to say at this point, that we aren't too concerned about making an enemy out of our neighbor. HE is the one in the wrong. HE is the one choosing to continue to park his truck where it shouldn't be parked. HE is the one that continues to ignore all HOA notices, even though he knows he is in violation of the bylaws. As far as any extenuating circumstances, I'm sure anyone can make a case as to why they can't or won't abide by certain rules. This has been going on for almost four months now, so I'm of the mindset that they just don't believe the rules apply to them. Another reason I believe this is because this isn't the only rule they've shown a disregard for.

And, speaking of the privacy fence that we had installed, the HOA had to approve it. It is in the rules that we had to fill out an application and had to have neighbors on both sides of us (and behind us, if we had any, which we don't) sign off on the application, too. So my husband went to the truck owner's house, knocked on their door and explained that we were having a fence installed and needed them to sign off on our application. When my husband came back home, he said the wife looked at him like he had two heads or something. He said she was surprised that we were going through all that just to put up a fence. She said normally people just go ahead and do it without asking the HOA's permission. Okaaaaaaay.

 

[sam_gordon]

It probably varies by HOA. In my aunt’s case, according to hers, they need a quorum of 2/3 of unit owners to vote, and then a rule could pass with 50% vote of the vote. So if there were 30 units, 20 needed to show up, and only 11 had to vote yes for it to pass. Also, Each unit was limited to one person- so a arrived couple couldn’t get two votes, for example. It was per unit.

But wouldn't they need to notify home owners after the rule change?

 

[Kestryl]

But wouldn't they need to notify home owners after the rule change?

Yes. And they need to notify that there’s a proposal for a rule change.

There were people posting that anyone who buys a house in an HOA knows what the rules are ahead of time, and I just wanted to point out that rules change.

 

[sam_gordon]

Yes. And they need to notify that there’s a proposal for a rule change.

There were people posting that anyone who buys a house in an HOA knows what the rules are ahead of time, and I just wanted to point out that rules change.

While possible, the odds of a specific rule changing between when you put an offer on a house and closing would be pretty long.

 

[Kestryl]

While possible, the odds of a specific rule changing between when you put an offer on a house and closing would be pretty long.

Right, but I’m saying that you could buy a house, move in, and then face voting on a new rule. Just because you don’t like it and vote no doesn’t mean it can’t become active and you now have to abide by it.

 

[Christine]

Can HOAs change the rules without notifying home owners? I doubt it.

It would probably vary by state (some or more strict than others). I can tell you that in Virginia, the HOA cannot just change a covenant without some serious $$$$. Our HOA contemplated changing the covenants to allowing home-based businesses. It would have required a certain number of votes, and then all the by-laws/covenants would need to be redone at a significant price. Our HOA did not have the funds to do it, so we didn't.

 

[sam_gordon]

Right, but I’m saying that you could buy a house, move in, and then face voting on a new rule. Just because you don’t like it and vote no doesn’t mean it can’t become active and you now have to abide by it.

And you could live there 10 years, vote "no" on a new rule, but it still passes and you have to abide by it. If Congress passes a new law that you don't like should that mean you don't have to abide by it?

 

[mnrose]

It’s a truck. The man is using it to work. Most people in this world have to have a job.


It may not be a matter of the rule just not suiting him. There could be extenuating circumstances. But hey that doesn’t matter right? It’s a RULE.

And how exactly is his horrid rule breaking hurting the op?

I answered that upstream. One, damage to the roadway from heavy vehicles (this is a REAL thing...talk to a city engineer). Two, diminishment of MY property values (ask any real estate agent..aesthetics of the neighborhood is something people consider). But, hey, keep on believing that the "rules" are there just to annoy people. But the biggest reason to me is HE AGREED to the rules, and now wants to flaunt them. If there was some TEMPORARY reason that he had to do this, the responsible thing to do is ASK and explain the TEMPORARY problem. But, clearly this did not happen. There's always people in the HOA who think the rules are for other people. Seriously, abiding by the rules (all of which have been entirely rationale in the HOAs I've been part of) is the EASIEST way to get along with the neighbors.