Common Core.... someone please explain

[AnAmericanInDisney]

Your K students are using the 3rd grade standards...and it is CC fault they are doing poorly???

When they are asking a K, 1st and even 2nd to show their work in writing it is by using a picture not by writing a thesis on the answer.

Go to pinterest and search CC K math lessons and you will see some amazing lessons. It is all free to sign up for pinterest for those cash strapped districts:

http://www.pinterest.com/teaching4real/kindergarten-common-core/

http://www.pinterest.com/search/pins/?q=common core math for kindergarten

Advanced Kindergarteners are doing third grade Math lessons. They aren't Kindergarten Math lessons. Aren't some Kindergarten kids in your district advancing to that level? If not, your method of instruction is not adequate, and I suggest you spend less time on Pinterest and more time on research. Pinterest? Really? A bachelor's and often master's degree and teachers are using Pinterest to fill in gaps in curriculum? Fascinating.

 

[nugov2]

I havent read this whole thread but just wanted to add my two cents. My son is significantly affected by autism he is currently in a third grade gen ed class. he is doing so great but having to explain his math answers is something he will never be able to do. I saw a paper the other day where he got a 50%. He got the equations right but couldnt explain them. I had to laugh out loud when I was reading his explanations. This is a great math problem. This is another really good math problem etc etc. I am really upset right now because I know they want to take him out of the gen ed english and math, all because he might not be able to pass these stupid tests at the end of the year.

Your son should be on an IEP that allows him to be in the regular classroom with accommodations. So for example he wouldn't have to write his explanation, but show a picture to represent his answer. Is he allowed to use math tools to help him solve...ex number line.

 

[nugov2]

Advanced Kindergarteners are doing third grade Math lessons. They aren't Kindergarten Math lessons. Helllooooo????

Hello to you

If your advanced program for K is just the teacher taking third grade lessons and teaching them to K that is a big problem and CC again has nothing to do with it.

 

[nugov2]

I have read all the posts here... and several early one made sense HOWEVER where I live, many of those examples do NOT apply. I in fact DO have skin in this game. Should you go back and read many of MY posts you'll see I'm trying to better understand CC because we are/were considering sending our son to our local public school. I also am involved in my local community sports and talk to many other parents that have similar aged children in our public school. One of which is the chair of the school committee. ALL of them have nothing good to say about how CC is being implemented in MY local public school. So by all means, go ahead and tell me how great it is on your district, which has ZERO impact on me. Maybe I should latch onto all the positive posts here and base that on my district?

Let me add, I came here and on line to better understand CC to see if its only a problem for me locally or if it's nationwide. So far, for me, based on local and national feedback, there seems to be more bad than good.

When I say no skin in the game I mean you currently cannot say what is going on in your district b/c you are not in it. Not that you don't have a right to know. You are commenting on some examples and not examples from your district even if it is the same state or region. I suggest you make appointments to observe classroom and look at the lessons being used in your district. Also, just like my great district has zero impact on you, so do the awful examples and that was my point. You don't know unless you go to your district and witness and experience what is going on. No amount of positive and negative experiences posted on a board will change that. It is hard to understand CC at this point b/c like I posted there are lots of supporters of CC who see it as just another shift in education, but the naysayers are the loudest and do not represent what the majority of teachers, educators and parents feel. I know there are tons of links to bad press, but the surveys done by independent companies and not just the Bill Gates foundation suggest this is the case, but that is irrelevant if your district is doing it wrong. So again, that is what you need to find out. Even if your friends tell you it is bad, you still should find out for yourself if you are considering moving your child. It just "feels" like you just wanted to more complain about CC and that you had your mind made up and if I am wrong about that I apologize.

 

[AnAmericanInDisney]

Hello to you

If your advanced program for K is just the teacher taking third grade lessons and teaching them to K that is a big problem and CC again has nothing to do with it.

In reality we just skipped the writing, but they'll never learn the useless Math writing required for the third grade "test." They'll probably be doing Middle school Algebra or Geometry, but won't know exactly how common core wants them to write things. I'm ok with that.

 

[nugov2]

Advanced Kindergarteners are doing third grade Math lessons. They aren't Kindergarten Math lessons. Aren't some Kindergarten kids in your district advancing to that level? If not, your method of instruction is not adequate, and I suggest you spend less time on Pinterest and more time on research. Pinterest? Really? A bachelor's and often master's degree and teachers are using Pinterest to fill in gaps in curriculum? Fascinating.

Ah, I see deleted your original post and change it to this.

See in our district we have a gifted program that has a whole different set of curriculum, again written by our district with a committee of parents, educators and administrators. We also have an honors program, so I think we are more than adequate.

I am a parent...former teacher now SAHM, so I can spend as much time as I like on pinterest. I also find lots of great ideas to reteach lessons at home with my kids there and other places many of my teacher friends use. It is sad that you don't think it is acceptable for teachers to reach out to their peers all over the country to share amazing, fun and creative lessons with each other. I also have friends who gasp...have PHD's who use pinterest Are you also disgusted by other websites that encourage teachers to share lessons with their peers? Technology is the wave of the future and I think you will be surprised to hear that there are actually sites like pinterest teachers pay to be on. There are tons that are free, but some great ones with subscriptions too. I am shocked your schools advanced program uses their 3rd grade curriculum. I am also shocked that they expect that just because a K student is advanced enough to understand math at a third grade level also must also understand written and language skills as a third grade level. Maybe your school would benefit from a little time surfing the pinterest site to find challenging math lessons for K students working several grades ahead that don't require them to have all of the knowledge a third grader has.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Still confused.


Did we not have standards before?

I can't talk about when you or I were in school, but starting around the time of NCLB (so, 2002-ish), if not earlier, each state came up with it's own set of standards. They were created through the state's department of education (I assume with input from districts). FYI, PA came up with its standards in 1999. I'm sure other districts were earlier.

Each state had different standards and had its own standardized tests.

Now, when I was in school in Pennsylvania in the 80's and early 90's, we took the CAT (California Achievement Test) to assess how well we were doing. But I don't think PA had its own set of standards back then.

As I said before, the style of teaching is independent of the standards. Unfortunately, there are a lot of districts without the time, talent, money, or commitment to come up with their own curriculum, so they use Pearson's. States pay for standardized tests created by Pearson or other companies instead of coming up with their own. That's not the fault of the standards. Again, let's look at PA: PA has a test called the PSSA. It's been called the PSSA since 1999. A few years ago, they added the end-of-course Keystone test for certain classes. These are all in-house created tests, and were aligned to Common Core last spring. We don't use PAARC or SBAC. Our state does not require all district to use Pearson's curriculum.

Here's an example of PA common core aligned test questions: http://www.portal.state.pa.us/porta...liminary Item and Scoring Sampler Grade 3.pdf

 

[Lolsmum]

So, to adopt a new set of standards, that not ALL states are doing, will now get everyone to understand the same things, from state to state? Even though the old methods did the exact same thing? Would it make more sense to actually have a standard curriculum for ALL to use so then there's no doubt everyone is "on the same page", from state to state? Why force what appears to be odd practices to get to the same place we all have to get to? Again, as I've said before, I was taught several ways to do similar math problems. Some methods were easier than others. With what is being taught now (only based on a few examples that I've seen on line and locally) seems to be from way out in left field. If it is in fact an alternate way to think through the question then great, but when it comes across as an extremely long and difficult process, why limit it to only thinking that way? If a child can explain HOW they got to the answer, right or wrong, then why say that's not how we're doing it? If one can not simply say 7+2 is 9 because I had 7 trucks and I then put 2 cars with them so I now have 9. To say that's wrong, is.... well, wrong! Instead, going the route of having 7 trucks that each have 4 wheels will be a total one hundred pounds of rubber and then removing the added weight of the steel rims now reduces the area needed to occupy that area. With the introduction of 8 more wheels you should now be able to see that there are 36 wheels (knowing that 10 vehicles would be 40 wheels less the rims) so 40 - 4 is 36 or 9 vehicles.

Actually, the old methods did not lead to everyone understanding the same things from state to state. Most children who moved form one state to another found themselves repeating loads, sometimes an entire year or more worth of lessons and/or gaps in their education. I personally would have no trouble with a national curriculum all states must follow, or a national set of standards even, but those ideas have been rejected. Common Core is not a federal program, so the only states using it are the ones which choose to do so.

Demonstrating how 7 + 2 = 9 can be done in a number of ways. A number line, a drawing of seven objects then adding two more to give nine objects or manipulating objects (beads, blocks, whatever) would all be acceptable demonstrations. This would be done while learning this level of addition. Obviously kids in high school are not asked to show this every time. Your 7 cars plus 2 cars equals 9 vehicles is actually a fine demonstration.

 

[ilovefh]

Actually, the old methods did not lead to everyone understanding the same things from state to state. Most children who moved form one state to another found themselves repeating loads, sometimes an entire year or more worth of lessons and/or gaps in their education. I personally would have no trouble with a national curriculum all states must follow, or a national set of standards even, but those ideas have been rejected. Common Core is not a federal program, so the only states using it are the ones which choose to do so. .

"Choosing" common core is not so cut and dry. It was not mandated but those states that did adopt it made out better financially with money from the federal government. So while it's not mandated, essentially connecting funds to it for adoption is a pretty big incentive.

I will say that I am a fan of national standards. We're a very mobile society so it is better is all students are learning the same thing.

The problem I do have is implementation. The trainings I went to were garbage.

 

[AnAmericanInDisney]

Ah, I see deleted your original post and change it to this.

See in our district we have a gifted program that has a whole different set of curriculum, again written by our district with a committee of parents, educators and administrators. We also have an honors program, so I think we are more than adequate.

I am a parent...former teacher now SAHM, so I can spend as much time as I like on pinterest. I also find lots of great ideas to reteach lessons at home with my kids there and other places many of my teacher friends use. It is sad that you don't think it is acceptable for teachers to reach out to their peers all over the country to share amazing, fun and creative lessons with each other. I also have friends who gasp...have PHD's who use pinterest Are you also disgusted by other websites that encourage teachers to share lessons with their peers? Technology is the wave of the future and I think you will be surprised to hear that there are actually sites like pinterest teachers pay to be on. There are tons that are free, but some great ones with subscriptions too. I am shocked your schools advanced program uses their 3rd grade curriculum. I am also shocked that they expect that just because a K student is advanced enough to understand math at a third grade level also must also understand written and language skills as a third grade level. Maybe your school would benefit from a little time surfing the pinterest site to find challenging math lessons for K students working several grades ahead that don't require them to have all of the knowledge a third grader has.

You're right. The clothespin number line and caterpillar counter would be invaluable to the advanced Math kids. That wouldn't be busy work at all.
Actually, the only Pinterest activity on either page that addresses the issue at hand is a poster with, "can I prove it?" And "What's the strategy? " That's typical Common Core lingo. Blah, blah, blah.

 

[nugov2]

In reality we just skipped the writing, but they'll never learn the useless Math writing required for the third grade "test." They'll probably be doing Middle school Algebra or Geometry, but won't know exactly how common core wants them to write things. I'm ok with that.

My first question is why is your school worrying about a test your kids will not take for several years and worrying about them meeting those expectations in K?? Also a good gifted/enrichment/honors program does more than just introduce curriculum from older grades to younger students. All gifted programs need to tailor their curriculum to meet the needs of their gifted students. Even pre CC you could not have a good program based only on the standards that are in place in higher grades being taught to younger students who are advanced. Your school should not be teaching K students the language and writing skills that the 3rd grade is doing, when they are clearly not ready for that. They should be introducing the concepts along with higher level thinking that coincide with math concepts that the students are ready for without the "useless math writing" The fact that the gifted program at your school is just doing a carbon copy of what the 3rd graders are doing for their program is a huge red flag(which they obviously are if they are worried about or skipping the writing portion of the 3rd pieces of the curriculum). The so called "useless" writing is still acceptable as a simple picture at that level, which I'd imagine all K students could do, but especially gifted K students. Many concepts taught in older grades can be introduced to younger learners with them representing how they got an answer through a simple picture, which meets the K CC requirement of math writing in.

I have also seen many examples of what the expectation is of the writing portion of the test and it isn't anything outlandish...can I see why some kids will score on the lower end, yes...but that was the way with all state testing prior to CC. There is never going to be a test that fits all learners and kids who have special needs(and sometimes that is the gifted population...twice exceptional) should be getting accommodations and should be on an IEP. Either way standardized testing is always going to be a horrible way to assess kids alone and should only be used as a small portion of assessment, but that is nothing new and has not changed with the implementation of CC. We took 4 tests a year prior to CC and we take 4 tests a year with it in full roll out. I hate testing and felt that way prior to CC, but that is not the issue at hand.

 

[Lolsmum]

You're right. The clothespin number line and caterpillar counter would be invaluable to the advanced Math kids. That wouldn't be busy work at all.
Actually, the only Pinterest activity on either page that addresses the issue at hand is a poster with, "can I prove it?" And "What's the strategy? " That's typical Common Core lingo. Blah, blah, blah.

You must have worked hard to avoid seeing all the things on those pages. I love the poster with math vocabulary for K. The clothespin number line is cute and yes, number lines can be very helpful in learning and demonstrating addition. There are quite a few things that address the concerns mentioned in this thread, like discussions with kids about math and the subtraction strategies the kids are expected to learn.

I'm pretty sure the pages were not "Common Core math for Kindergarten kids doing 3rd grade math" so cherry picking items that would likely not be needed by that particular class is not actually helping your argument. Of course, some of these activities might not address the math level these kids are at, but instead address other needs, such as developing fine motor skills by cutting with scissors or discussions of simpler math problems to practice explaining their work.

 

[nugov2]

You're right. The clothespin number line and caterpillar counter would be invaluable to the advanced Math kids. That wouldn't be busy work at all.
Actually, the only Pinterest activity on either page that addresses the issue at hand is a poster with, "can I prove it?" And "What's the strategy? " That's typical Common Core lingo. Blah, blah, blah.

1. I wasn't saying everything on that page was perfect lesson, but just an example of what comes up when you do a simple CC math search.

2. I never said a single lesson was meant for "advanced math kids". Sorry to have posted lessons beneath the academic ability of your little snowflake and they are from pinterest to boot....I hope you don't have nightmares tonight from the mere idea of it

 

[Lolsmum]

Tonight I was discussing the math strategies issue with my 8 year old. I showed him the way I was taught to add*:

(1)
47
+ 27
---
74

The (1) is to show the "carrying the 1" most of us were taught.

He literally laughed at this, telling me he would never do it that way because then what would you do if it were written 47 + 27= ? There's no room to carry a 1 to.

He said he would use mental math (do it in his head) unless he was asked to show his work. He then listed 3 other strategies he would use, explaining them quickly to me when I looked blank.

We also discussed the fact he often just knows the answer when he looks at the problem but will pick a strategy to show his work because that is part of "doing maths properly".** According to him it's like using capital letters and punctuation in writing. Even when it doesn't actually affect the answer or meaning, you have to do it anyway.

*My son is well beyond basic addition, but I chose an addition example in my discussion with him because it had been used here.
** "Maths" is the proper way to shorten mathematics here in the UK.

 

[AnAmericanInDisney]

1. I wasn't saying everything on that page was perfect lesson, but just an example of what comes up when you do a simple CC math search.

2. I never said a single lesson was meant for "advanced math kids". Sorry to have posted lessons beneath the academic ability of your little snowflake and they are from pinterest to boot....I hope you don't have nightmares tonight from the mere idea of it

Apology accepted

 

[BCDisneyFanatic]

You're right. The clothespin number line and caterpillar counter would be invaluable to the advanced Math kids. That wouldn't be busy work at all.

Personally, I find number lines invaluable for explaining the addition and subtraction of positive and negative numbers, the cartesian plane, and the concept of discrete vs. continuous data, but hey what would I know about teaching 'higher level mathematics' to those advanced Math kids?

 

[jodifla]

I just got back from a moms group meeting, and the subject turned to math, and every parent who had a kid currently in school launched into how they despised what their children were being taught -- and the kids hated it and were giving up, even in second grade. People are hiring tutors -- and a couple are just planning to pull out their kids and homeschool. And these were kids from different districts.

People also brought up Everyday Math, and how that had been a joke as well.

It's one math fad after another.

 

[Lolsmum]

I just got back from a moms group meeting, and the subject turned to math, and every parent who had a kid currently in school launched into how they despised what their children were being taught -- and the kids hated it and were giving up, even in second grade. People are hiring tutors -- and a couple are just planning to pull out their kids and homeschool. And these were kids from different districts.

People also brought up Everyday Math, and how that had been a joke as well.

It's one math fad after another.

What exactly do these parents despise?

Is it just that the parents do not understand the strategies their kids are being taught? Is it the teaching methods (again, not Common Core)? Is it badly written worksheets (also not Common Core)?

 

[sam_gordon]

What exactly do these parents despise?

Is it just that the parents do not understand the strategies their kids are being taught? Is it the teaching methods (again, not Common Core)? Is it badly written worksheets (also not Common Core)?

The bolded is where my money is.

 

[nugov2]

I just got back from a moms group meeting, and the subject turned to math, and every parent who had a kid currently in school launched into how they despised what their children were being taught -- and the kids hated it and were giving up, even in second grade. People are hiring tutors -- and a couple are just planning to pull out their kids and homeschool. And these were kids from different districts.

People also brought up Everyday Math, and how that had been a joke as well.

It's one math fad after another.

I'm just curious if it was all complaining or did you discuss actions besides just homeschooling? Is it teachers who need training or ineffective teachers that need to go that are the problem in your district? Is it poorly purchased materials because administrators were too lazy to rewrite the curriculum? Which of these do you feel is the problem? If it is the first join together with parents in your district to raise money to purchase true materials and not Pearson money makers with CC stamped on it. If it is the second research speak at a board meeting about the school writing their own curriculum that best fits the needs of the students. Bring in examples of good lessons being taught in other places that the teachers in your district should be using. Complaints and discussing with others is a start, but if that is all you do then it really not that important to you to change it. Also going to one board meeting isn't enough, go to multiple board meetings. Get a group of upset parents to share the load and keeping bringing in good examples of implementing CC over and over and the ones your district is using as a poor comparison so they see there are alternatives out there.

What exactly do these parents despise?

Is it just that the parents do not understand the strategies their kids are being taught? Is it the teaching methods (again, not Common Core)? Is it badly written worksheets (also not Common Core)?

The bolded is where my money is.

Mine too