Commercialize Christmas or ELSE!

[TheOtherVillainess]

Commercialize Christmas or ELSE!

Is Christmas too commercialized?

OR..is it just what the Christians get for stealing the holiday from the Pagans and subverting it (like so many other religious holidays/high holy days) to fit their own agenda?

Discuss.

But don't forget...no swearing, no hitting below the belt and keep the phasers set to 'gentle whacking' only.

TOV

 

[lil mermaid]

Just curious, how did the Christians steal Christmas from the Pagans and subvert it to fit their own agenda? Isn't Christmas a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ?

 

[TheOtherVillainess]

Nobody knows for sure the exact date of Jesus' birth,lilmermaid. The reason it is celebrated on Dec. 25 is NOT because Jesus was born on that exact day,but because the early Christian church stole it from the Pagans.

Pagans celebrate Winter Solstice which is usually on or very close to Dec 21.

You'd be surprised at how many of our 'holidays' originated in Celtic/Pagan traditions,lilmermaid.

*ETA Lookie what I found on Wikipedia! That explains it better than I could. ***

TOV

 

[Free4Life11]

All I know is I am sick and tired of the friggin' AFA sending me emails! I've gotten probably 10 of them whining about how Target wont use Christmas in their ads. In fact, I just got one today.

Do I think we need to start calling CHRISTMAS trees holiday trees? No and I think it's stupid (does Hannukar or Kwanza decorate evergreen trees as part of their tradition) but it's not that big of a deal for me to get all worked up over it.

The only thing would bug me is if the schools would exclude Christmas, which my elementary school did. We had to go to a Kwanza assembly and learned all about Hannukah, but just made paper Santas for Christmas. We protested and the teacher gave in and read a sanitized version of the Christmas story (wow that was almost a decade ago, time sure flies!)

 

[disneymom3]

lil mermaid--some pagans believe that the only reason Christmas is celebrated on the day it is has to do with the timing of a pagan celebration at the same time. Also, the christmas tree and some other symbols also have meaning in the pagan rituals/beliefs etc. I am not going to address that as I don't know enough to be fair, I will say though that the reason Christmas is Dec 25th is that it is believed that Jesus died exactly 33 yrs after he was conceived and that would be Mar 25th, thus the choosing of Dec 25th.

Anyway, for the OP, I think the great thing is that we live in the US where anyone is free to be mad at anyone else for any reason and they even have the right to sue them. Seriously, you can't do there basically anywhere else.

 

[cardaway]

If you're Christian, and people start using Happy Holidays in church, then you have a problem.

Everything else is marketing and lots of hot air about nothing.

 

[vivilasvegas]

It's commercialized because corporations realized they could make a lot of money with it. And people still support and buy into it(which is fine.)

It has nothing to do with what you suggested.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Until further notice--all those that share my birthday are asked to find another date. My date is my date only. Anyone else with my birthday has stolen it .

And anybody who goes to Disneyworld and celebrates their birthday not on the exact day--that is blasphemous as it isn't your day.


I'm sorry--but no one day belongs to any one thing. There are only 365 days per year. The pagans need to deal with it. And yes, Christmas is too commercialized, and no it isn't punishment for stealing the holiday unless the pagans took over retail--I seem to have missed that memo.

 

[sodaseller]

The Whos will still sing in Whoville!

 

[TheOtherVillainess]

no it isn't punishment for stealing the holiday unless the pagans took over retail--I seem to have missed that memo.

Yes..yes we have. *evil Mr.Burns-like cackle*

But seriously..what about all the other holidays like Kwanzaa, Channukuh and Festivus (for those who don't celebrate Christmas...FESTIVUS FOR THE REST OF US! )? They seem to get swept aside (even though, IMO, they are no less great) in this huge tide of Santa-topped red and green crappola that the stores put out every year.

TOV

 

[vivilasvegas]

Yes..yes we have. *evil Mr.Burns-like cackle*

But seriously..what about all the other holidays like Kwanzaa, Channukuh and Festivus (for those who don't celebrate Christmas...FESTIVUS FOR THE REST OF US! )? They seem to get swept aside (even though, IMO, they are no less great) in this huge tide of Santa-topped red and green crappola that the stores put out every year.

TOV

Because the majority celebrates Christmas. Retailers won't make as much money selling Kwanzaa decorations. It's simple really.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Yes..yes we have. *evil Mr.Burns-like cackle*

Kwanzaa is "new", Festivus I have not heard of, and Channukah--though not as commercialized as Christmas--is much more commercialized than when I was a kid.

Also--let's talk numbers. The Christmas celebrations I would guess far outnumber the others--and retail wants to make money and they cater to where they will get that money.

 

[disneymom3]

kwanzaa and Christmas are not mutually exclusive at all, btw. FIL celebrates both as do many people we know. It is quite possible to celebrate black heritage and be Christian too.

And I am dying here as Cardaway, I agree with your post. I think that has to be the first time that has ever happened on anything remotely religious!

 

[lil mermaid]

Guys, I know that Jesus wasn't born on December 25.

I was wondering how the "Christians STOLE the holiday from the Pagans and subverted it to fit their own agenda." The OP is inferring that Christmas is to commercialized and it is the Christians' own fault for doing such a dastardly deed. I am looking for an explanation on how they did that

 

[cardaway]

And I am dying here as Cardaway, I agree with your post. I think that has to be the first time that has ever happened on anything remotely religious!

That's because we rarely have an occasion to post about the commonly accepted religious opinions, only the ones that tend to end in padlocks.

I guess if I was to post those it would be like mass murder, everybody dying of the same shock disneymom3 is feeling now.

 

[Bella the Ball 360]

I agree Easter was also the pagan holiday Eostre(sp) and a celebration of spirng.

I for one do not care if Christmas is commercialized. I LOVE it. You can do with it what you will. I have a friend who is Jewish and celebrates as does her whole family not because it is Christmas but because she likes it. I say to each his own. IF you want a big Christmas then so be it. If you want a Spartan Christmas that is your choice. IF it is the reinvention of a Pagan Holiday so what? It is what you yourself believe that is important.

I will say I think it is crimminal that suddenly we cannot call it what it is. All the other holidays including the "made up ones" are called by the correct name. It is just like everything else. Minorities rule. It is okay for us to use the names of all the other religious and non religious holidays that other groups celebrate or observe but the "bad" Christians cannot even call their own holiday what it is. I think it is bull and I for one hate this stupid political correctness.

Luckily in my school, the principal lets us call "a rose by its own name" to para phrase the "Bard of Avon."

 

[helenabear]

Guys, I know that Jesus wasn't born on December 25.

I was wondering how the "Christians STOLE the holiday from the Pagans and subverted it to fit their own agenda." The OP is inferring that Christmas is to commercialized and it is the Christians' own fault for doing such a dastardly deed. I am looking for an explanation on how they did that

They didn't steal it. The Christians intentionally made sure that certain holidays would coincide with holidays that pagans celebrated. That way they could more easily attempt to convert pagans to Christianity. They borrowed some of the customs, moved dates around and that's the closest one could say to Christianity stealing from the Pagans.

Same thing happened with Halloween... go look up the history of that one. You'd be shocked. Nothing at all to do with Devils and the like.

Things become too commercialized thanks to our modern society that likes to make a big buck. You can sell Christmas to the majority in the US. Eventually it rubs off on those who aren't Christians and it becomes a very secular and non-secular holiday at the same time.

Again, look at Halloween. Exact same thing happened.

Yep it bothers me to a certain extent, but at the same time I know what's in my heart so that's all that really matters in the long run.

But to say it is punishment for trying to steal from Pagans... sorry that's about as mature sounding as saying that the people who were killed and had homes and all surrounding their lives destroyed by hurricanes were evil and deserved to be wiped out.

 

[True North]

I think the problem is there are almost two diffrent Christmas holidays that exist now. There is the Christian Jesus birthday Chritmas, and the secular Chritmas of Santa and the season of giving and family. While you can celebrate both, there is a large number of people that focuses only on the latter. The "secular Christmas" can apeal to the masses and therefore is easier to market. The problem is that the two are linked, share the same day and name, and can't realy be seperated. If there was one all inclusive holiday that everyone could celebrate that would be easier, but to many that all inclusive holiday has been adopted into Christmas.

Hmmmm.... That makes sense in my head. I hope it came out right. I can picture someone not understanding me and getting really mad.

 

[DisDuck]

Folks, go to MSNBC.com where there is an interesting article (if still listed) on the Christmas 'season'. In a synopsis, it seems that Christmas was not always celebrated in any fashion in the US and this is not the first time that Christmas 'bashing' has taken place.

As pointed out in the article, Puritans did not celebrate the day and in fact passed a short lived law making it a crime to celebrate Christmas. The Tree was is Germanic/Nordic in original did not make its way to the US until after the Civil War. According to the article, Christmas as a 'celebration' outside of 'church' became in vogue only after the publication of drawings of Santa, etc. Then in NYC early in the 1900's, Christmas Carols/Songs were banned from public school choruses because of a boycott of approximately 20,000 Jewish students/teachers who felt insulted that they had to sing these songs.

Even today groups like Jehovah Witness and 7th Day Adventis do not 'celebrate' Christmas.

So, in conclusion, this is nothing new and has a long history of anti-celebration. We are a diverse religious population when 'one' is deemed to be emphasized over another then from the outside looking in it may seem that the outsiders are being diminished.

 

[jenm2878]

Guys, I know that Jesus wasn't born on December 25.

I was wondering how the "Christians STOLE the holiday from the Pagans and subverted it to fit their own agenda." The OP is inferring that Christmas is to commercialized and it is the Christians' own fault for doing such a dastardly deed. I am looking for an explanation on how they did that

I recently took a mythology class and had to write a research paper on Mithras. Mithras was thought to be the savior god in Mithrasism, which was practiced mostly in 1st -5th centuries B.C. Many of the Christian details of Christmas coincide with Mithras and his birth. He was thought to be born in a cave on December 25, and was sometimes referred to as a sun god and savior of the world. It was also said that sheppards were present at his birth, and came bearing gifts. They also believed that when Mithras died, he blocked himself into a cave where he stayed for three days before ascending into heaven, which happened around the spring equinox. (Easter?) The night before he died, Mithras had a dinner with twelve followers which represented the twelve signs of the zodiac. I think I'm rambling at this point, but it was really interesting to research and see the parallels between this ancient religion and Christianity. I'm not sure I answered how the Christians STOLE Christmas day, but I thought I'd share what I learned.