Comments, thoughts, advice - first time buyers having a little trouble

[MxRacer965]

Hello all!

Been checking this site periodically (very helpful!) since my wife and I made the decision to buy DVC. We went in June '13 and Feb '14 when my daughter was just a little shy of 2 and again when she was 2.5. We figured we have many more trips to Disney in our future so it makes sense to get into DVC.

We figured SSR would be the best for us because the purchase price is reasonable (looks like $69/point on average right now), and MF's are lowest so they should remain lowest throughout the years. We figure we can't make more than 1 trip a year since my wife is a teacher so she can't take vacation, we live in Chicago area, and 2 trips to Disney in the Summer would be a little crazy. So we settled on 100-130 points. That should allow us to bank, use, and borrow enough to do just about anything we want, within reason and not have to spend as much up front, or in long-term MF's.

All those decisions made, we put in an offer for a gutted DVC contract that had 0 banked, 0 '14, and 0 '15 points for $65/pt - we were just there this year already, and my wife is expecting in Dec so that might put a '15 trip out of the picture anyway. Seller countered at $68, but with credit for '15 MF's that put the purchase price down to $63/pt. Seemed like an ok price, so we signed a contract through The Timeshare Store. The seller had until 5/8 to get the contract signed...that time has since come and gone with no response from the sellers. The folks at The Timeshare Store supposedly have been trying daily to reach the sellers, including at a business number that they own with no success. That seems a little strange to me that even a business the sellers own they couldn't be reached at? I almost wonder if TTS isn't really trying, hoping they can resell the points for a higher amount? Or is it the sellers really are that unreliable, untrustworthy, and inconsiderate (TTS had 4 other 100-130 listings we lost out on because we agreed on this listing)? Anybody have any thoughts, comments, advice, and additional outlets for DVC points other than Fidelity, TTS, and ReSlsDvc?

Right now I told TTS to keep trying and keep our deposit in escrow until we either find another listing we like, or the sellers respond with what their intentions are. Sound like a reasonable plan?

 

[DizBub]

I'm so sorry that this is happening to you.

We had a similar thing happen to us a couple of years ago. 150 points at SSR, we went through ROFR and passed, sent full amount with the signed final documents and waited for the sellers to sign theirs. And waited and waited some more. They never responded to e-mails or calls and our broker suggested we pull the plug after a couple of months of waiting.

Sometimes these contracts are on the market because of divorce, bankruptcy, loss of a job, illness, death, etc. Maybe the sellers are not signing their papers because they are indisposed or not communicating with each other, who know?

There are a lot of other contracts out there. I would suggest you move on and find another one. Eventually you will find the right one, maybe even a better one. We did.

Good luck!

 

[bwvBound]

It could be the seller is having second thoughts! I suffered similar on my first two purchase attempts some 10 years ago. In both cases the sellers cancelled the transactions after having accepted my offers. Oh, well ...

 

[Best Aunt]

OP, keep in mind that even if the sellers immediately sign now, there is a whole bunch of paperwork that the sellers have to sign after you pass ROFR, and I believe some of it has to be notarized. If they're being difficult now, my guess is that they will be difficult at that stage, also (for reasons explained by DizBub).

I'm not saying that you should back out of that contract immediately, but I definitely would keep looking.

I have used the Timeshare Store several times, and I wouldn't hesitate to use them again. My guess would be that the problem is the sellers, not TSS.

 

[MxRacer965]

I had not considered there was going to be a lot more paperwork for them to sign, great point. Obviously we are in no hurry for the aforementioned reasons so if they got their act together and things went smoothly I think I'd still be fine with going forward. Even if they were having second thoughts that's fine - just tell us so we can move on! After seeing some of the low prices others were able to get this year on SSR I felt $68/pt less '15 MF's was looking a bit better for the seller than for us (agree? disagree?). On the other hand, if I can find something that does have some points available for next year for around the same price, even better. What I would hate to have happen though is to have them respond finally, signing the paperwork, waiting for ROFR, passing that, send in thousands of dollars, and then sit waiting while our money was tied up.

I'll give the guys at TTS a call tomorrow and maybe just cancel the whole thing and move on.

 

[Msmithmd]

I would walk away and start a different offer. With the '15 points gone this is a really expensive contract.

Reason: If you aren't going to go in the '15 UY, you can either easily rent the points at $11pp, or bank them into '16 and enjoy double points in that year.

Bottom line, a contract stripped of both the '14 and '15 points is only a reasonable deal if it is a minimum of $12 a point less than a non-stripped contract (figuring a $6 spread between maintenance fees and rental prices on both the '14 and '15 points).

If the contract isn't a fantastic deal (this one doesn't appear to be) and the seller isn't extremely responsive, you shouldn't give a second thought to walking away and buying elsewhere. If you don't have a definite response by tomorrow, I would get a different deal started. There are tons of SSR resales out there.

Good luck!

 

[Millionaire2K]

OP, keep in mind that even if the sellers immediately sign now, there is a whole bunch of paperwork that the sellers have to sign after you pass ROFR, and I believe some of it has to be notarized. If they're being difficult now, my guess is that they will be difficult at that stage, also (for reasons explained by DizBub).

I'm not saying that you should back out of that contract immediately, but I definitely would keep looking.

I have used the Timeshare Store several times, and I wouldn't hesitate to use them again. My guess would be that the problem is the sellers, not TSS.

AGREE!!

If this seller is slow now.... RUN. Find another deal. There are many options.

I have dealt with 3 sellers with this same company. ALL 3 returned the signed contract the SAME day they accepted my LOW offer. I was the reason 2 of the contracts stopped (I changed my mind on resort/price/points).

Also I don't think the resale company would risk a sale because of a few $ difference in commission. They have plenty of contracts. They could have came back at you with a HIGHER offer if they didn't like the deal.

Best of luck to you.

 

[supersnoop]

I just paid $68/point for a fully loaded SSR contract. Find something better and move on.

 

[MxRacer965]

Thanks for the advice. I see plenty of other offerings but I see them quite frequently in the high $70's and mid $80's. Would any of you make offers in the mid $60's for these? That is one heck of a difference in price...

Where are you all seeing plenty of SSR contracts? I only know of the 3 major sites and none of them have anything reasonably priced in the points range I am considering.

 

[MxRacer965]

Just called Scot at TTS and canceled. Doesn't look like our deposit check was ever even cashed either. Strange. Now to find another listing I guess.

Checking the recent sales for '14 it looks like all listings are selling at an average of $69, with a low in the high $50's and high in the $80's. What are your recommendations for making an offer for contracts in the 100-130 pt range (which seem to be a bit more/pt)?

 

[nalajms]

Thanks for the advice. I see plenty of other offerings but I see them quite frequently in the high $70's and mid $80's. Would any of you make offers in the mid $60's for these? That is one heck of a difference in price...

Since you're not in a hurry, if you have the time then I'd make an offer to every listing that fits your needs. Start in the $60s. The worst they can say is no, and you will get a lot of "no"s. Decide what price you're willing to pay based on the points available in '14 & '15.

The larger contracts are more likely to go for lower price per point. Smaller contracts tend to sell closer to listing.

 

[crisi]

Since you're not in a hurry, if you have the time then I'd make an offer to every listing that fits your needs. Start in the $60s. The worst they can say is no, and you will get a lot of "no"s. Decide what price you're willing to pay based on the points available in '14 & '15.

The larger contracts are more likely to go for lower price per point. Smaller contracts tend to sell closer to listing.

And a smaller contract is going to include that 100-130 number you are looking for. Basically, because for so long DVCs purchase floor was 150 points, contracts for less than that are harder to find and more expensive. So when comparing what others are getting, make sure to look at the number of points.

I seldom recommend buying more than you need, but consider if you can make a 150 point contract that is a good deal work for you. You can bank and borrow points to have enough extra points every three years to rent them out - which is pretty easy now with a broker like David. There will be a lot more contracts to choose from and you'll get to yes faster.

 

[MxRacer965]

banked and/or current points are actually a negative for us I think. It means a more expensive contract up front since it's loaded, and also mean additional MF's on points we might not be able to use or rent. I'd hate to buy something loaded with the idea of trying to get into renting immediately and find that I can't make it happen for some reason...

 

[skier_pete]

I agree that you should forget about that deal, you made the right move.

As far as going forward, it sounds like you already know you don't want to go this year and probably not next year. My advice is to be patient. Continue to compare prices. Remember, prices ebb and flow with numerous factors, including the economy. Six months from now you may find that contracts are going for $5-10 per point more, or $5-10 per point less.

If I were you, I would look at current prices and try and find a contract on the low end of the scale that is stripped of 2014 UY points, but still has 2015 UY points. (Even if you don't go in 2015, these could always be banked.)

Try not to get hung up on small differences in the up front per point cost. The difference between $65 per point and $68 per point is only say $390 over a $9000 contract, and remember these costs really average across the entire life of your contract, so you are talking $10 per year of use difference.

I'm saying, if a contract works well for you, don't sweat a couple bucks. Make an offer, but be willing to move up a bit. Remember, after you make the offer, the process takes about 2-3 months before you can access your points.

 

[supersnoop]

banked and/or current points are actually a negative for us I think. It means a more expensive contract up front since it's loaded, and also mean additional MF's on points we might not be able to use or rent. I'd hate to buy something loaded with the idea of trying to get into renting immediately and find that I can't make it happen for some reason...

If you find a loaded contract that otherwise meets your needs, you can always rent out the extra points to lower your overall cost.

I do suggest looking at something in the 150-160 point range. For some reason, SSR doesn't have many contracts smaller than that. I'm sure you can find something at $70/point or lower if you buy a contract with 160 points.

 

[crisi]

If you find a loaded contract that otherwise meets your needs, you can always rent out the extra points to lower your overall cost.

I do suggest looking at something in the 150-160 point range. For some reason, SSR doesn't have many contracts smaller than that. I'm sure you can find something at $70/point or lower if you buy a contract with 160 points.

You can try to rent out points - the trick is to know when the points will expire - if you have six months from closing to when the points expire, they should rent easy.

(The reason is that for the sales period of SSR, that (150) was the minimum point purchase unless you were already a member. Not a lot of existing members bought small contracts at SSR so they'd be able to stay there (like you can find with other resorts) because there isn't a lot of reason to own 50 points at SSR for the booking window....a few did for Treehouse Villas, but not enough for there to be a regular supply of 100 point contracts on the resale market.).

 

[MxRacer965]

I'm certainly willing to pay a fair price for something that works for me, and as pointed out, a couple $ here or there certainly won't break us. What I think matters more is that it not have '14 points that I need to add the MF's on to the overall contract price since there is a chance we won't make it in '15 since we'll have a ~6 month old (though my wife says "WE ARE GOING", lol). I'm fine with banking '15 and being able to stay in a bigger room and/or at a property that has monorail access in '16 if it comes to that.

Not sure I want to move into 150-160 though. I had already been set on 100 (again, we can only go once a year or every other year), and opening up to 130 means $491 - $638 for MF's and going up to 160 means $785 - almost $300/year more than my original target. And that will only grow every year as the MF's rise. I figured 3% a year?

How likely is it I would be able to rent out 100+ points if I had to buy a loaded contract? As long as I rent them for more than the MF's I don't need top dollar...

 

[crisi]

I'm certainly willing to pay a fair price for something that works for me, and as pointed out, a couple $ here or there certainly won't break us. What I think matters more is that it not have '14 points that I need to add the MF's on to the overall contract price since there is a chance we won't make it in '15 since we'll have a ~6 month old (though my wife says "WE ARE GOING", lol). I'm fine with banking '15 and being able to stay in a bigger room and/or at a property that has monorail access in '16 if it comes to that.

Not sure I want to move into 150-160 though. I had already been set on 100 (again, we can only go once a year or every other year), and opening up to 130 means $491 - $638 for MF's and going up to 160 means $785 - almost $300/year more than my original target. And that will only grow every year as the MF's rise. I figured 3% a year?

How likely is it I would be able to rent out 100+ points if I had to buy a loaded contract? As long as I rent them for more than the MF's I don't need top dollar...

It depends on how long until those points expire. If they expire in December and you don't close until August, it wouldn't be easy at all. But if that money is make or break for you - right now renting points is pretty easy, there may be times when it isn't - and extra points isn't a good idea. But you will have a harder time finding a 100 point or 130 point contract that meets your needs at your price point than a 150 or 160 point contract.

 

[bisney]

It sounds as though you're looking to stay in a studio annually and with little ones, I think that having enough points to stay in a one bedroom provides a ton of value. I'm sure that tons of people can make staying in a studio work with little kids but consider that there is real value in having a seperate bedroom for nap times, a washer/dryer for the ridiculous amounts of laundry that kids generate and a full kitchen for mealtimes.

An extra 20 points is $1,300 upfront and approx $100 annually in MFs which will definitely add up but is realistically a drop in the bucket compared to the thousands annually that you will spend in park passes, flights, meals, etc, etc, etc.

We bought 150 points at SSR and for the time of year that we travel, it should be enough to stay in a one-bedroom for 7 nights 3x per 4 years.

 

[MxRacer965]

You are correct in that we don't mind staying in a studio. We tend to spend a vast majority of our time in the parks. No leaving for naps, etc. It's too hard unless you are at Epcot or Magic Kingdom and are at a resort on the monorail. That is part of the desire for DVC though in that by getting 100-130 we figured we could bank, use, and borrow enough if we wanted to and stay on monorail if we wanted to at some point.

We stayed at AKL in June '13 and Port Orleans French Quarter (NEVER again) in Feb '14 and had enough hassles with buses just getting to and from the parks once a day. We waited over an hour between buses more than once for French Quarter, and one day spent 3 hours on a bus trying to get to and from Downtown Disney to/from French Quarter. AKL was spectacular, but so far away from anything that all bus rides were pretty long. No way are we trying to leave for nap time and deal with all that! We'd spend our entire vacation on a bus.

Ultimately I was looking at just enough to get us a studio wherever we chose to stay, with the occasional splurge for a larger room when necessary (family comes along, kids' friends, etc). In talking with my wife though 150 might be a worthwhile expenditure for the right price, whatever we don't use we can just rent and recoup some of the cost of the MF's.