College Sororities - Sad and Confused......kinda of long sorry

[edwardsfire]

My wife graduated from a large university.
She always says that sororites are for girls that have to buy their friends.

 

[Karibeth19]

I know that perception is reality, and those of you who had bad experiences with sororities in the past have strong and negative opinions of them and the girls that participate. However, to paint sororities and the greek system as a whole with such a broad brush is extremely unfair, and being just as judgemental as you accuse sorority girls of being. As in every aspect of life, there are the "good" ones and the "bad" ones, and you can't classify them all by the actions of a few. I joined a sorority as a Freshman in 1989 and my four years in the house were wonderful, and my sisters were kind, wonderful girls, many of whom I still consider my closest and dearest friends. No, I didn't join because I felt I needed to "buy" friends (I find that extremely offensive.); I joined because I am a social type of person who enjoys being involved with a group, and I looked forward to the philanthropic work in which my house was involved. Plus, it helped with the adjustment and homesickness of being away at school by providing a "family" away from home filled with friends, activities, and a lovely place to live.

OP, I am so sorry that your daughter is upset, but I would be extremely willing to bet that she didn't recieve a bid because of her past grades and/or her upperclassman status. The national headquarters of each sorority set guidelines for academic eligibility and number of upperclassmen allowed to pledge, and no matter how wonderful a girl may be, if she doesn't meet those guidelines, the house can't give her a bid, period. I remember many tears being shed during Rush over girls we absolutely loved, girls who would have been such an asset to the house, but because of their grades, or because we had already met our small quota of upperclassmen, we had to turn them down. Our hands were tied and it didn't matter how unfair we thought it or how much we argued with our alumni rush advisor, in the end it wasn't up to us, and there was nothing we could do. It's not like we were a bunch of b**chy girls sitting in a room looking at pictures of girls going, "We want that one, that one, ooooo no way, not that one, DEFINITELY NOT that one..." There is much, much more to the selection process, and the opinions of the sisters in the house are only small part. I know she's hurting, but maybe this knowledge will help her to feel better in some way; to know that she was not rejected because of who she is or how she looks, but probably because of a technicality.

 

[mumom95]

Has your DD considered Alpha Phi Omega? It's a coed service fraternity (not technically part of the greek system). They take anyone who is willing to join and fullfill the pledge requirements (so many hours of community service, and a few other things). But it's a great organization, they do a lot of good work for the community, plus they have a lot of social events. And the best part, it's not expensive. When I was in college back in the early 90's I think it was $30 a semester. That's where I met my dh, and still keep in contact with many of my friends from there.

 

[TwinsinCA]

I remember many tears being shed during Rush over girls we absolutely loved, girls who would have been such an asset to the house, but because of their grades, or because we had already met our small quota of upperclassmen, we had to turn them down. Our hands were tied and it didn't matter how unfair we thought it or how much we argued with our alumni rush advisor, in the end it wasn't up to us, and there was nothing we could do. It's not like we were a bunch of b**chy girls sitting in a room looking at pictures of girls going, "We want that one, that one, ooooo no way, not that one, DEFINITELY NOT that one..." There is much, much more to the selection process, and the opinions of the sisters in the house are only small part.

But your older "sisters" at some point, somewhere, decided people must meet whatever random rules they came up with in order for someone to belong. THAT is what so many of us have an issue with. Why are there any rules at all?? Why isn't anyone who wants to join welcome?? I understand YOU didn't make the rules, but the higher ups in the organization that you support DID.

Not everyone can live in the house but why can there only be X amount of girls accepted in a given year? A school's PTA takes anyone who wants to join. They don't care if your kids get straight A's or if your car is a certain color, they let you in. Period. WHY is the Greek system so exclusionary?? Why is there magic number they cannot go over? It is like they are trying to make themselves more artifically important by making it limited. I just do not see the reason for it.

It sounds like there are some that are service oriented and welcome all who want to join. Good for them. But for those that have that magic number that they "can't" go over they are simply adult sanctioned cliques. Period.

 

[mykidsand_i]

My wife graduated from a large university.
She always says that sororites are for girls that have to buy their friends.

I know that some of you may agree with this post, but this is actually quite harsh...

I was in a sorority for 4 of my 5 years of college. It was the best organization I was involved with in school. Sure, there are sororities that go only on looks and how much money you have, but there are also a large majority that reach out and do volunteering in their communities. Saying that "sororities are for girls that have to buy their friends" may be true in about 1/8 of the sorority houses- but what about the other 7/8ths of them?

sororities (in my experiance) look for people who are out-going...they cannot be shy. In my sorority, we did a TON of fundraising and we had to be willing to approach and talk to people with out being worried about what they'd think of us. We had to have good grades...not just for a year or two- but if we were "average" for grades even for 1 semester, that lowered the chances of us getting in or even staying in...and that is not because they are prejeduce...it is because people have to prove that they can handle it. If an average grades college student is looked at by a frat or sor. they say " the grades aren't outstanding now, so how will they be able to keep their grades up AND have the time to be in a frat/sor. house?"

The sor. I was in (and now I'm a big part of the alumni) was an organization that helped women who suffered from abuse, children who were abused, we did fundraisers for local non-profit organizations. Being "greek" doesn't mean that we're stuck up snobs who only worry about our looks...that is not what all of them are about. So, please don't "generalize" just because a few are bad...there are "a few bad apples" with every different organization, with every different things people get involved in...just because a few are bad, does not mean all of them can be "lumped" into the same bad category.

Sure, there are a few that go off of looks and how much $$$ you have...but I'd be willing to say that most of them are probably better than that.

I, myself, did not join a sorority (at a very well known school) because I needed to buy my friends...I joined to be a part of a great group of women and do things for the community. I wish people would stop making "general comments" about things...But, if I were to make a "general comment" about sorority houses I'd have to say the words "supporters of the community" and "great group of friends that I've made and will have for life"...

 

[Nennie]

But your older "sisters" at some point, somewhere, decided people must meet whatever random rules they came up with in order for someone to belong. THAT is what so many of us have an issue with. Why are there any rules at all?? Why isn't anyone who wants to join welcome?? I understand YOU didn't make the rules, but the higher ups in the organization that you support DID.

Not everyone can live in the house but why can there only be X amount of girls accepted in a given year? A school's PTA takes anyone who wants to join. They don't care if your kids get straight A's or if your car is a certain color, they let you in. Period. WHY is the Greek system so exclusionary?? Why is there magic number they cannot go over? It is like they are trying to make themselves more artifically important by making it limited. I just do not see the reason for it.

It isn't the sorority that makes the rules, it's the university. Every sorority has the same cap (for example 30 pledges) they can take each year. The reasoning is so that all the sororities stay the same size. We would have loved to have taken more girls, b/c the bigger you are, the better. The cap is also the reason we only took freshman b/c if we could only take 30 girls, then we wanted 30 girls who would be active for the next 4 years. Hope that clears up some of the confusion.

 

[Deb & Bill]

But your older "sisters" at some point, somewhere, decided people must meet whatever random rules they came up with in order for someone to belong. THAT is what so many of us have an issue with. Why are there any rules at all?? Why isn't anyone who wants to join welcome?? I understand YOU didn't make the rules, but the higher ups in the organization that you support DID.

Not everyone can live in the house but why can there only be X amount of girls accepted in a given year? A school's PTA takes anyone who wants to join. They don't care if your kids get straight A's or if your car is a certain color, they let you in. Period. WHY is the Greek system so exclusionary?? Why is there magic number they cannot go over? It is like they are trying to make themselves more artifically important by making it limited. I just do not see the reason for it.

It sounds like there are some that are service oriented and welcome all who want to join. Good for them. But for those that have that magic number that they "can't" go over they are simply adult sanctioned cliques. Period.

Exactly what I was thinking. Kind of like the Miss America pagent is a scholarship organization. Unless you look good in a bathing suit, you are not going to that pagent.

 

[TwinsinCA]

It isn't the sorority that makes the rules, it's the university. Every sorority has the same cap (for example 30 pledges) they can take each year. The reasoning is so that all the sororities stay the same size. We would have loved to have taken more girls, b/c the bigger you are, the better. The cap is also the reason we only took freshman b/c if we could only take 30 girls, then we wanted 30 girls who would be active for the next 4 years. Hope that clears up some of the confusion.

But then why can the service frats take an unlimited number?

 

[freckles and boo]

I know that some of you may agree with this post, but this is actually quite harsh...

I was in a sorority for 4 of my 5 years of college. It was the best organization I was involved with in school. Sure, there are sororities that go only on looks and how much money you have, but there are also a large majority that reach out and do volunteering in their communities. Saying that "sororities are for girls that have to buy their friends" may be true in about 1/8 of the sorority houses- but what about the other 7/8ths of them?

sororities (in my experiance) look for people who are out-going...they cannot be shy. In my sorority, we did a TON of fundraising and we had to be willing to approach and talk to people with out being worried about what they'd think of us. We had to have good grades...not just for a year or two- but if we were "average" for grades even for 1 semester, that lowered the chances of us getting in or even staying in...and that is not because they are prejeduce...it is because people have to prove that they can handle it. If an average grades college student is looked at by a frat or sor. they say " the grades aren't outstanding now, so how will they be able to keep their grades up AND have the time to be in a frat/sor. house?"

The sor. I was in (and now I'm a big part of the alumni) was an organization that helped women who suffered from abuse, children who were abused, we did fundraisers for local non-profit organizations. Being "greek" doesn't mean that we're stuck up snobs who only worry about our looks...that is not what all of them are about. So, please don't "generalize" just because a few are bad...there are "a few bad apples" with every different organization, with every different things people get involved in...just because a few are bad, does not mean all of them can be "lumped" into the same bad category.

Sure, there are a few that go off of looks and how much $$$ you have...but I'd be willing to say that most of them are probably better than that.

I, myself, did not join a sorority (at a very well known school) because I needed to buy my friends...I joined to be a part of a great group of women and do things for the community. I wish people would stop making "general comments" about things...But, if I were to make a "general comment" about sorority houses I'd have to say the words "supporters of the community" and "great group of friends that I've made and will have for life"...

Stop the presses. I agree with edwardsfire. Or at least his wife.

Women don't "join" a sorority. They beg to be a part of it by rushing and then someone deems them "good enough". Sorry if that sounds harsh, but the system is inherently elitist and exclusionary. I wonder if the abused women you so generously help would have been deemed good enough?

To me sororities are like "scholarship" pageants. The emphasis is on all the wrong things. Even if there is some good that comes from it, it isn't worth the negative that goes along with it.

 

[Nennie]

But then why can the service frats take an unlimited number?

I know...it doesn't make sense, does it??? Male fraternities could take as many guys as they wanted...not fair in my opinion. It has to do with the panhel system, which governs all the sororities and makes very strict rules.

 

[TwinsinCA]

I know...it doesn't make sense, does it??? Male fraternities could take as many guys as they wanted...not fair in my opinion. It has to do with the panhel system, which governs all the sororities and makes very strict rules.

That is outright discrimination and I honestly am having a hard time buying that is the case. But for the sake of argument, let's say it is. If you know you can only let in 10 new girls a year, then why not pick the first ten who show up on your doorstep? Why make them jump through a series of hoops before you LET them join??

 

[onelilspark]

Stop the presses. I agree with edwardsfire. Or at least his wife.

Women don't "join" a sorority. They beg to be a part of it by rushing and then someone deems them "good enough". Sorry if that sounds harsh, but the system is inherently elitist and exclusionary. I wonder if the abused women you so generously help would have been deemed good enough?

To me sororities are like "scholarship" pageants. The emphasis is on all the wrong things. Even if there is some good that comes from it, it isn't worth the negative that goes along with it.

Seriously? Re-read that and just see how nasty that is. And of course those IN the sororities are the nasty and judgmental ones. I didn't beg to be in a sorority. I made a decision to join one. If I didn't get a bid, I wasn't going to place my self-worth on it. I didn't pay for my friends, I was friends with independents and those in Greek life. If I hadn't have joined, I would have had the same friends, but certainly not the same opportunities and experiences.

 

[SomedayI'llBe]

Seriously? Re-read that and just see how nasty that is. And of course those IN the sororities are the nasty and judgmental ones. I didn't beg to be in a sorority. I made a decision to join one. If I didn't get a bid, I wasn't going to place my self-worth on it. I didn't pay for my friends, I was friends with independents and those in Greek life. If I hadn't have joined, I would have had the same friends, but certainly not the same opportunities and experiences.

THANK YOU. I wanted to say something, but it would have come out downright ugly.

 

[TheLittleRoo]

Whew, I just finished ALL the thread, and first to the OP, I'm sorry your DD is hurting. I think everyone has experienced rejection similarly, but to have it all at once from multiple sources IS brutal.

I loved the advice given about those sororities not rejecting the *real* girl, but rather who they perceived your DD to be in 3- 30 min "parties". Someone pointed out it's like speed dating and that's partly true too.

When I was in college at OU in the late 80's, Greek was beyond huge on campus. It was very much Greek or geek. I rushed and pledged a very popular house. I know the sting of rejection though b/c my first couple of choices cut me, but in the end here's my insight on what your daughter is missing out on: not a lot. I had a 4.0 and was STILL forced to sit through mandatory study hall, my parents didn't have a lot of money and all I remember was dues, dues, dues. If it wasn't dues, it was "Here, go sell these balloons for $2 each and if you can't sell them all, you're buying them". It was a LOT of mandatory parties at frat houses. If you couldn't make it on a Tues night and you were on the calendar for that frat party, you had to find your own replacement to go in your place. Test the next day? Well, you better study early or find a girl who'd go in your place.

I remember lots of issues I had with being a pledge - house rules chafed me, it was shocking that "your" room wasn't really yours at all. There was one twin bed for two girls, so you had another bed on a sleeping porch. Call me finicky, but I LIKE having a place of my own that I can always crash in without it being my night for the bed! Ick. Just writing this brings back memories I'd forgotten about!! Was it fun? Sometimes yes. I liked having a pack of girls (the pledges) that I could identify with in class or in the cafeteria. I liked the parties for the most part. I just hated having to ask my parents for more money ALL the time.

When I transferred to a smaller school midyear (living at home to save my parents money) I rushed again. Glutton for the rush process I ended up pledging the SAME house, different school. Wow, I didn't do my homework because Greek life there was about 100x slower and less important than at OU. But they still had all the same rules and pecking order and mandatory stuff that just got in the way of my LIFE! I was working p/t, had a full time boyfriend so the frat parties were awkward, and living at home. I de-pledged about 6 weeks later. Best decision I ever made!!! I remember feeling so liberated telling the pledge captain I was leaving!

So, if that helps your DD in any way to read some of the parts of Greek life that aren't so pretty - - if she chafes in any way when people tell her what to do, when to do it, if she is turned off by how the girls actually schedule circles where a girl announces she's been "pinned" by a guy and girls are CRYING with glee, if she's in any way independent minded - - chances are she might have been less than thrilled with what the wizard of Oz held for her behind the green curtain.

And lastly, if she can take something else from this and learn to apply it to her dating life in the coming years? It's exactly what was said earlier; guys aren't rejecting her, esp after a few dates. They're sizing up what she's projecting or what they're interpreting as what she's projecting (sheesh..) and making a quick decision. Add to that the fickleness of youth! I wish my mom had prepared me more for the sting of dating and how to deal with that.

I hope your DD finds some comfort in the coming days and weeks. It will get better, and she will soon find other people and groups to fill her time. I'm sorry she's hurting right now.

 

[onelilspark]

That is outright discrimination and I honestly am having a hard time buying that is the case. But for the sake of argument, let's say it is. If you know you can only let in 10 new girls a year, then why not pick the first ten who show up on your doorstep? Why make them jump through a series of hoops before you LET them join??

Out of 60 girls, chances are good that 10 of those girls are a good fit, but which 10 girls? The probability of it being the first 10 girls that "show up" is extremely low. It's possible, but not probable. Why would you want an organization full of people who don't get along? At our school, we would usually only have about 3 girls who didn't get placed in a sorority and that's because they would "suicide" a group and say that if they didn't get a bid from one sorority they wouldn't join any. (Which is kind of what I did.) Which is everyone's prerogative. If you only like one group, why settle for any group just so you can feel like you "belong" somewhere. In our system, you were required to go to every sorority, you couldn't just pick and chose which ones you wanted to visit. Which means that those first 10 on your door step might not even want to be there to begin with. (I hope I'm making sense.) So really the interaction during recruitment is mutually beneficial.

 

[Nennie]

That is outright discrimination and I honestly am having a hard time buying that is the case. But for the sake of argument, let's say it is. If you know you can only let in 10 new girls a year, then why not pick the first ten who show up on your doorstep? Why make them jump through a series of hoops before you LET them join??

I promise I'm telling the truth. To get more specific, this is how it works. Everyone who wants to rush signs up ahead of time. Then they take the number of rushees and divide it by the number of sororities, and that's how they get the number that each sorority can take. For example, 300 girls sign up to rush, and there are 10 sororites...so each sorority is allowed to take 30 girls. Theoretically, that means that there is a spot for every girl. The problem comes in when all 300 girls want to be in the same 2 or 3 sororities...so now there are 300 girls trying for 60-90 spots. If everyone is willing to be in ANY sorority, there would of course be a spot for them, but such is life, a lot of them are trying for the same ones.

As for taking the first 10 girls that show up...it's not like that. It's very organized, and all 300 girls will be there the first night. Again, to get into more specifics, the first night the 300 girls go to all 10 sororities (yes, it's an exhausting night!), then 8 the next night, then 6, then 4, then 2, and then bid day is when ideally every girl gets into one of their top 2 choices. It USUALLY works out believe or not, but unfortunately there are a few girls that get left out in the cold, and it stinks for everyone, but expecially for those few that don't get a bid.

 

[Karibeth19]

But your older "sisters" at some point, somewhere, decided people must meet whatever random rules they came up with in order for someone to belong. THAT is what so many of us have an issue with. Why are there any rules at all?? Why isn't anyone who wants to join welcome?? I understand YOU didn't make the rules, but the higher ups in the organization that you support DID.

Not everyone can live in the house but why can there only be X amount of girls accepted in a given year? A school's PTA takes anyone who wants to join. They don't care if your kids get straight A's or if your car is a certain color, they let you in. Period. WHY is the Greek system so exclusionary?? Why is there magic number they cannot go over? It is like they are trying to make themselves more artifically important by making it limited. I just do not see the reason for it.

It sounds like there are some that are service oriented and welcome all who want to join. Good for them. But for those that have that magic number that they "can't" go over they are simply adult sanctioned cliques. Period.

It isn't the sorority that makes the rules, it's the university. Every sorority has the same cap (for example 30 pledges) they can take each year. The reasoning is so that all the sororities stay the same size. We would have loved to have taken more girls, b/c the bigger you are, the better. The cap is also the reason we only took freshman b/c if we could only take 30 girls, then we wanted 30 girls who would be active for the next 4 years. Hope that clears up some of the confusion.

That's exactly right!!!! If those caps were not in place then, for example, out of 30 rushees, house A could pledge 15, leaving houses B with only 8 and house C with only 7, therefore negatively impacting the B and C's finances and their means of operating. It's actually a very fair way to do things, and not done to make the houses "self-important" or "exclusionary". I know that where I went to school, the more girls that went through rush from year to year, the larger the pledge classes were allowed to be.

As far as grades, the sororities have grade requirements because the University has grade requirements for the house (or any organization) to stay in good standing on campus. If the house grade point slips, the house can be put on probation or kicked off campus. Isn't that the same with many school organizations? If you don't make good grades, you can't play sports, participate in the school musical, etc. Same with the Greek system. The universities want good grades, so the sorority national headquarters put guidelines in place to recruit women who will make good grades and contribute to an good overall house GPA.

All sororities have a service aspect and each one has a specific philanthropy to which that they donate time and money. We spent a lot of time when I was in college doing fund-raisers and participating in events which benefited local and national charities, as did all the other Greek houses on campus.

 

[onelilspark]

I promise I'm telling the truth. To get more specific, this is how it works. Everyone who wants to rush signs up ahead of time. Then they take the number of rushees and divide it by the number of sororities, and that's how they get the number that each sorority can take. For example, 300 girls sign up to rush, and there are 10 sororites...so each sorority is allowed to take 30 girls. Theoretically, that means that there is a spot for every girl. The problem comes in when all 300 girls want to be in the same 2 or 3 sororities...so now there are 300 girls trying for 60-90 spots. If everyone is willing to be in ANY sorority, there would of course be a spot for them, but such is life, a lot of them are trying for the same ones.

As for taking the first 10 girls that show up...it's not like that. It's very organized, and all 300 girls will be there the first night. Again, to get into more specifics, the first night the 300 girls go to all 10 sororities (yes, it's an exhausting night!), then 8 the next night, then 6, then 4, then 2, and then bid day is when ideally every girl gets into one of their top 2 choices. It USUALLY works out believe or not, but unfortunately there are a few girls that get left out in the cold, and it stinks for everyone, but expecially for those few that don't get a bid.

This is exactly how it worked at our school as well, except on a much smaller scale We'd have about 60 girls "rush" and had 6 sororities. So about 10 each. And that would include the girls that would drop out of recruitment.

That's exactly right!!!! If those caps were not in place then, for example, out of 30 rushees, house A could pledge 15, leaving houses B with only 8 and house C with only 7, therefore negatively impacting the B and C's finances and their means of operating. It's actually a very fair way to do things, and not done to make the houses "self-important" or "exclusionary". I know that where I went to school, the more girls that went through rush from year to year, the larger the pledge classes were allowed to be.

As far as grades, the sororities have grade requirements because the University has grade requirements for the house (or any organization) to stay in good standing on campus. If the house grade point slips, the house can be put on probation or kicked off campus. Isn't that the same with many school organizations? If you don't make good grades, you can't play sports, participate in the school musical, etc. Same with the Greek system. The universities want good grades, so the sorority national headquarters put guidelines in place to recruit women who will make good grades and contribute to an good overall house GPA.

All sororities have a service aspect and each one has a specific philanthropy to which that they donate time and money. We spent a lot of time when I was in college doing fund-raisers and participating in events which benefited local and national charities, as did all the other Greek houses on campus.

We had the same thing with grades, they were a big deal.

Also with philanthropies, at our school Greek life was very heavily involved with philanthropies. Not only did we have the national events and every organization supported each other, but we had some that we'd get a few organizations together to do. I think that's a reason I changed my mind about sororities after I got to school.

 

[SomedayI'llBe]

That is outright discrimination and I honestly am having a hard time buying that is the case. But for the sake of argument, let's say it is. If you know you can only let in 10 new girls a year, then why not pick the first ten who show up on your doorstep? Why make them jump through a series of hoops before you LET them join??

Then I suggest you realize that is the truth. To my knowledge, fraternities don't have the "quota" system that sororities do. The numbers are done by the local branch of the National Panhellenic Council- the council that oversees the majority of national sororities. And some rules are set by the university itself- I know that's why some schools can only accept enough girls that they have room to sleep in their house.

The whole point of recruitment is to see where you "fit". If you are going to call a bunch of girls "sister", do you really just want to take the first ten who show up? And what if they don't like you? Should you still take them? You need to look at if you like them too. It also need to be seen if they like you. There's a reason that the process is called "mutual selection"- as the girls help to select where they go as well.

 

[freckles and boo]

Seriously? Re-read that and just see how nasty that is. And of course those IN the sororities are the nasty and judgmental ones. I didn't beg to be in a sorority. I made a decision to join one. If I didn't get a bid, I wasn't going to place my self-worth on it. I didn't pay for my friends, I was friends with independents and those in Greek life. If I hadn't have joined, I would have had the same friends, but certainly not the same opportunities and experiences.

I am not judging you. I am judging the system, which I find flawed at best. And yes, you may well have had SOME of the same friends, but those sisters whom you consider your life-long friends in another post would probably not have been in your life in any meaningful way.