College returns, monetary and otherwise

Thanks Steve and Staci, for your replies. I can only hope my son gets more from college than just head knowledge, as you did. It sounds like you had a great time...all the more motivation for me to save, save, save for DS college and encourage him to get good grades for scholarships. I think you put as much into your experience as you got out of it, the way it sounds. :)
 
staceyfe said:
I can only hope my son gets more from college than just head knowledge, as you did.
There is so much more to gain from college than the book knowledge. Heck, you could take courses on the Internet if that's all you want but you would miss out on so much.

Don't forget about extra-curricular activities. I got involved in the theater department in college, something I had virtually no experience with before that. I learned set construction, various art techniques, directing skills and worked mainly on the lighting crew, eventually becoming the company's lighting designer my senior year. I even performed in a couple of shows.

After college, I joined a local community theater group and did similar jobs with them. In fact, in a roundabout way (long story), it is thanks to that theater group that I got together with and married my wife.

I'm sure anyone who attended college could share similar stories about how things they learned or did or experienced in college stayed with them long after graduation.
 
rjthkids said:
I got nothing but harrassment on why I would "waste" such an expensive education to get a teaching degree when I could have gone to the local community college if I "just" wanted to be a teacher. Peopled rolled their eyes when my first job after graduating paid significantly less than it cost for a years tuition.
I'm afraid I am with the eye-rollers. You can't get a teaching degree at a community college (here anyway), but you can get a teaching degree at a 4-year state university for probably 1/3 the cost.

Here's the real question: Is a college degree from a small, private school worth THREE TIMES the cost of a degree from a state school? Is the college experience at a private school worth THREE TIMES more than a similar experience at a public school? Does a degree from an expensive school make you THREE TIMES the "educated and knowledgeable citizen" that you would be had you graduated from a state school? Does it make you THREE TIMES a better wife and mother?

I completely agree that college makes you a better person -- not a better person than those who didn't go, but rather, college makes you a better version of yourself -- it helps you become the best person you can be (wow, that sounds like the Army's slogan). I completely agree that the real value of a college degree includes intangible qualities as well as the ability to earn a larger salary at a job you enjoy. I don't think a degree is "wasted" even if you aren't working. But I don't see that a private school is THREE TIMES better than a state school -- especially if you have to borrow to obtain the degree.
 
disneysteve said:
I would echo everything staci said in her reply. Sure, you have life experiences all the time, but they are compressed and multiplied 100-fold in college. And I happen to believe that going away from home for college is a BIG part of the experience. When I was in college, I remember noticing a major difference between myself and my high school friends who lived at home for college. When I came home on breaks and saw them, they were still hanging out with the same people, doing all the same stuff, and just happened to be going to college. On the other hand, I came home with endless stories of dorm life, new friends, new places and new experiences.
I agree. The whole college experience broadens your horizons. It's well worth the time, effort, and cost, even if you never work enough years to recoup the cost of the tuition. And you notice other differences in college grads vs. those old high school friends: communication skills, just to name one.

For women -- the ones more likely never to actually use their degrees -- I think it's important to know that you have the ability to enter the work force (and to make enough to support yourself and your childr), even if you don't choose to do so. Divorce, death, disability . . . any number of things could force a SAHM into the work force unexpectedly. It's important to know that you have that degree.
 

MrsPete said:
I'm afraid I am with the eye-rollers. You can't get a teaching degree at a community college (here anyway), but you can get a teaching degree at a 4-year state university for probably 1/3 the cost.

Here's the real question: Is a college degree from a small, private school worth THREE TIMES the cost of a degree from a state school? Is the college experience at a private school worth THREE TIMES more than a similar experience at a public school? Does a degree from an expensive school make you THREE TIMES the "educated and knowledgeable citizen" that you would be had you graduated from a state school? Does it make you THREE TIMES a better wife and mother?

I completely agree that college makes you a better person -- not a better person than those who didn't go, but rather, college makes you a better version of yourself -- it helps you become the best person you can be (wow, that sounds like the Army's slogan). I completely agree that the real value of a college degree includes intangible qualities as well as the ability to earn a larger salary at a job you enjoy. I don't think a degree is "wasted" even if you aren't working. But I don't see that a private school is THREE TIMES better than a state school -- especially if you have to borrow to obtain the degree.

i'm actually really kind of glad i went to a liberal arts private school rather than a state school, but it really is because of who i am, not what the school had to offer. i felt EXTREMELY uncomfortable in a large school setting (which is where i would have gone had i not gone to the school i went). i liked the idea that i would have 4 years of housing and that i wouldn't have to fight someone to find an apartment. i liked the idea that i didn't have many distractions, which i definitely would have had at my state school, between nyc being so close and most of my friends going there. i liked the idea that my professors were always available and that i didn't have to talk to ta's when i had questions or even had to have classes taught by ta's. i liked the idea that the largest class that i had in college were my intro chemistry and biology classes which were no more than 50 people and most of all i LOVED the sense of community my school gave me. i felt safe and loved there.

i totally understand that people think it's a waste of money and sometimes i had a hard time convincing myself that it was really worth it, because i'm going to be paying my education back for a long time, but i really enjoyed my time in school. i personally wouldn't become a teacher after graduating from my college, because i agree that it's too expensive for me personally to do that. i do however know a lot of people who became teachers (i just graduated this past year) or even went into the peace corps after graduating from my school, but they were basically all there for the same reason i was. it was really a comfort thing.
 
MrsPete said:
Is a college degree from a small, private school worth THREE TIMES the cost of a degree from a state school? Is the college experience at a private school worth THREE TIMES more than a similar experience at a public school?
I think it depends on a bunch of factors: the student, his interests, the school itself, the field of study, etc. Some students will thrive at a small private school but get lost in the "big pond" of a large state school. Some kids need the personal attention. Others do better in the larger setting.

Some graduate schools do attach some added weight to applicants coming from competitive private schools. There were 210 students in my medical school entering class. 12 came from my college, a pretty large percentage compared to all the other schools represented in the class and pretty large considering my college graduating class was only about 300 people total. Would I still have been accepted to that med school had I graduated from some large state school? I don't know but I think my chances were better coming from where I did. Was that worth the price? It was to me. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't change a thing.
 
BS in exercise physiology- worked for about 3-4 in the field hated it. I have been an office manager for a breast cancer surgeon for 7 years. Love it most days, hate it some days.
 
I got my BS in Business Admin w/a concentration in Healthcare. I started off in Medical billing...getting my feet wet. 3 years later, I was a SAHM with my son. After 1 year I went back to the billing field nights, so I could still stay at home but get out a little, too...plus the extra $$ was a good thing.

A year later, it was definately time for DS to go to daycare/preschool and for me to get back into the real world. Don't get me wrong a loved being a sahm and wouldn't give it up for the world, but we were both ready for more. I told DH...if I find the right job, I'll go back. I searched the internet and found one that would be perfect, about 1 hour from my house. Turns out it was a blind ad and it is really only 15 minutes from my house (they listed the regional office for the address..they were firing my predecessor). Anyways, I got the job and have been there 26 months. I am a Business Office Manager at a nursing home. So, i have definatley been in the field that I got my degree in! I started school, thinking about RN, then went to PT, but then decided I am more of a numbers person and I can always do that in healthcare....and I am.
 
disneysteve said:
Some students will thrive at a small private school but get lost in the "big pond" of a large state school.

I think this is what happened to me, which is one of the reasons I transferred to x-ray school where there were only 18 people in my class. :rolleyes:

I may have to rethink hoping my son will go to our local private college. It sounds like it may be good for him to get away from home a bit and spread his wings. Great advice here!

MrsPete said:
And you notice other differences in college grads vs. those old high school friends: communication skills, just to name one.

This statement makes it sound like anyone who didn't graduate with a 4 year degree is, shall we say, not up to par with college grads. Surely you don't mean that since a person didn't go to college, they don't communicate as well as a college graduate. I think it depends on the person, not their education.
 
Interesting question. I read those statistics, and my DH makes over the masters median w/o a college education! Well, he did have some college, but never finished.

He's in a very technical IT specialization so that has something to do with it, I'm sure.

I have my AS in Elementary/Secondary Ed, with some new courses toward a Special Education certification. Since my degree, I have been able to get a much better paying job than my previous position. (about twice to three times what I was making hourly)

So I dont think the money spent was in vain. My DH's college coursework had really nothing to do with his IT experience, so it may have been in "vain" per se.
 
disneysteve said:
I think it depends on a bunch of factors: the student, his interests, the school itself, the field of study, etc. Some students will thrive at a small private school but get lost in the "big pond" of a large state school . . .

Some graduate schools do attach some added weight to applicants coming from competitive private schools.
Things may be different in other areas, but in North Carolina not all state schools are large: UNC-Pembroke and Western Carolina (state schools) are much smaller than Wake Forest and Duke (private). And many state schools have very competative admissions standards: An average student can expect to be admitted to Meredith or Pfeiffer (private); many honors students are turned away from UNC-Chapel Hill. And it's well-known that Wingate (private) is for college students with money but not grades; there's no public-school equivalent for that one.

Again, I don't know about other states, but in NC we have a great public university system and a wide variety of schools. Regardless of his needs and interests, a student can find his or her nitch at one of them, making the extra cost of a private school questionable. I just don't see that a degree from Davidson or Duke is worth literally 3Xs the cost of a degree from NC State -- especially if loans are involved.
 
staceyfe said:
Surely you don't mean that since a person didn't go to college, they don't communicate as well as a college graduate. I think it depends on the person, not their education.
You'll find plenty of exceptions in both directions (my father was certainly an exception), but if you could compare the average college graduate with the average high school graduate, I do think you'd find a correlation in communication skills and education (and other areas too). This really gets to the heart of this thread's original question: What's the return on the money spent on a college education? If college doesn't improve your skills in many areas, why spend the time and money?

However, you might note that in a different post I commented that college makes a person a better version of himself. Not all of us start at the same point, and not all of us will end up at the same place -- regardless of whether we went to college. That's why you can find plenty of exceptions to this generality.
 
One of the things college taught me,outside of the head knowledge, was the responsibility of living on my own while still receiving financial help from my parents. I knew they didn't have a lot of money, and there were three of us in college and four back home in private school, and my parents only went to one year of college themselves. (Guess that's why NOT going to college was never an option for us!) But, I worked full-time and carried a full load. Met tons of people from other cultures and countries. Dealt with the challenges of interpersonal conflicts in dorm rooms. ;) Worked in several factories during the summers that spurred me to keep going and do well!

My husband, on the other hand, never had the chance to go to college, but he did receive awesome training in the Navy and makes three to four times what I made at my peak before moving to Florida, where the pay rates STINK because retirees don't really care how little they make as long as they can get health care benefits (I can't really blame them, but it really hurts the non-retirees in my area!).
 
Cindi0511 said:
One of the things college taught me,outside of the head knowledge, was the responsibility of living on my own while still receiving financial help from my parents.
Along these lines, I think college can be a great half-way point between mom/dad's house and a first apartment. It's more independence, but dorm students usually don't have to think about electric bills and groceries. For me, it was something of a stepping stone to "full adult living".
 
MrsPete said:
I think college can be a great half-way point between mom/dad's house and a first apartment. It's more independence, but dorm students usually don't have to think about electric bills and groceries. For me, it was something of a stepping stone to "full adult living".
I agree, which I why I feel so strongly that college students should live on campus and not commute from home. I realize that isn't economically feasible for everyone but I do think it is the best way to go.

As for groceries, even that comes into play in college. At my school, there were 4-person apartments on campus. Apartment residents were generally not on the college meal plan as the apartments had a full kitchen. But only seniors were eligible to live there. So once students developed some independence in the dorms, they could transition to the next step by living in an apartment their last year.

Of course, at many schools, students rent off-campus housing and have more responsibilities earlier on.
 
disneysteve said:
I agree, which I why I feel so strongly that college students should live on campus and not commute from home. I realize that isn't economically feasible for everyone but I do think it is the best way to go.
I agree. It was "just enough" responsibility for me when I was 18. At my school, dorm and suite students had meal plans; thus, no matter how broke you were, you weren't going to go hungry. As you described, some upper-classmen had on-campus apartments. Looking back, I guess you could say it's a progression thing.

The on-campus dorms and apartments are safer too. The main doors were locked at a certain time, and a security guard was posted to check IDs. Each floor had an RA, and there were other staff members around. I remember vividly a tragedy that occured my junior year: A girl we knew moved off-campus to her own apartment (in a good neighborhood) because she was tired of being forced to follow so many rules; in her second week of apartment living, a man threw a piece of firewood through her sliding glass door, raped, and murdered her. We were all so upset about her senseless death.

It's years away, but I'd definitely like to see my children live on campus in a dorm or suite first, then an on-campus apartment.
 
I have a BS in Computer Science which I got 20 years ago. I worked full time for 2 years after graduating college as a computer programmer, and then quit to stay home to be a SAHM. After the birth of my second child, I was able to get a job telecommuting as a programmer, and made great money, and was able to stay at home with my kids and work my own hours. I did this for over 10 years. I worked for a dot.com.
Then the stock exchange bubble burst and the company went out of business, and I was not able to find another programming job.
Now I am a computer teacher/librarian at a private school, and making very little money, but I am very happy, and have the same hours as my kids.
 
I'm afraid I am with the eye-rollers. You can't get a teaching degree at a community college (here anyway), but you can get a teaching degree at a 4-year state university for probably 1/3 the cost.

Here's the real question: Is a college degree from a small, private school worth THREE TIMES the cost of a degree from a state school? Is the college experience at a private school worth THREE TIMES more than a similar experience at a public school? Does a degree from an expensive school make you THREE TIMES the "educated and knowledgeable citizen" that you would be had you graduated from a state school? Does it make you THREE TIMES a better wife and mother?

I completely agree that college makes you a better person -- not a better person than those who didn't go, but rather, college makes you a better version of yourself -- it helps you become the best person you can be (wow, that sounds like the Army's slogan). I completely agree that the real value of a college degree includes intangible qualities as well as the ability to earn a larger salary at a job you enjoy. I don't think a degree is "wasted" even if you aren't working. But I don't see that a private school is THREE TIMES better than a state school -- especially if you have to borrow to obtain the degree.

Well for me, yes it was absolutely worth it. I graduated first in my high school class and I could have gone to any University of Massachusetts school system for free for four years under their program that waived school tuition for all valedictorians.

I had absolutely no interest in any public, state universities or college. Not the type of college experience I wanted, not places I wanted to live for four years, no thank you. When I was in high school I attended Harvard University in a special program for all four years and ended up with a year's worth of college credits. Going to Harvard while in high school taught me a lot about the importance of learning atmosphere, your fellow students, and the larger atmosphere of the place you would be choosing to go to college for four years. My mother was astounded when I came home and I told her flat out I would never go to Harvard for undergraduate school because it was a complete waste of money. Professors hated having anything to do with their undergrads, and undergraduate classes were HUGE and most students wouldn't even be able to tell you what their professors looked like. I knew going into my senior year that I wanted small, private, and liberal arts, and New England.

I don't regret for one second going to a school that cost 40,000 dollars a year by the time I graduated. It was priceless and worth a thousand times more than the experience I had at Harvard (which cost the same as the school I went to) or UMASS Amherst, which would have cost nothing.

Quite frankly, I didn't and still do not look at college as a "cost-benefit" ratio. I didn't choose to go to college so I make a million dollars, my plan was always to be a fulltime stay at home mother if I were to ever be blessed with a husband and children. I love children and social work and teaching were professions I wanted to committ myself to before and after having a family of my own. I went to college for the experience and for my own education, to stretch, learn, and grow myself. I took my education very seriously and out of a total cost of 144,000 dollars, I ended up paying 14,000 out of pocket and in subsidized loans. I currently have 5,000 dollars left to pay on my loans with a 2.5% interest rate.

Whether or not a college experience is "worth it" involves far more than just money. I could care less that I earned 20,000 dollars a year my first year out of school. I was doing what I wanted to do, what I loved doing, and I spent four years cultivating my educational passions in a place that was the perfect fit for me and the perfect challenge. :confused3 Some people don't understand that college is about more than money. :confused3
 
ask me again in 3 years when I'm done...

One thing college has taught me, is that I should have done this 11 years ago when I graduated from highschool....i wouldnt trade my girls for anything, but I can just imagine how much easier it would have been to had done it then, instead of now raising them on my own...


Brandy
 
rjthkids said:
Whether or not a college experience is "worth it" involves far more than just money. I could care less that I earned 20,000 dollars a year my first year out of school. I was doing what I wanted to do, what I loved doing, and I spent four years cultivating my educational passions in a place that was the perfect fit for me and the perfect challenge. Some people don't understand that college is about more than money.
I nominate this for the best post of the thread. Thank you for posting this.

The value of a college education is so intangible and unmeasurable. It is also very personal. It is just impossible to say one school is better than another or that a cheaper school is better or worse than a more expensive school. It isn't that simple, as rjhkids so eloquently explained.
 

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