College financial aid award letters ?

[MrsPete]

From a parent writing big checks every semester:

It's hard not to have a "sour grapes" mentality when you hear stories like this; however, I don't think this situation is really all that typical. I hear more often: "My husband hasn't worked in three years, I work only part-time, and still all we were offered is loans". I don't know why some people seem to get good offers, while others whose situations don't look all that different get nothing.

Don't overlook the other side of that coin though: The parents of this boy you're describing may not have any real responsibility in paying for his education . . . but I wouldn't trade places with them. They have no financial stability.

Also, I was a kid from a family who couldn't pay anything, and I did receive the maximum Pell grant back in the 80s. It didn't pay everything, so I worked my tail off rather than take out loans. But in the 24 years since I graduated, I've worked steadily and have paid many, many times the amount of that Pell grant in taxes to the government. They "won" by helping me through school. Hopefully this boy you know will go on to do the same thing.

I completely agree that the financial aid process is unfair, but -- given that everyone's situations are so different and so many people are willing to cheat -- I don't know how to make it fair.

 

[Darcy03231]

I agree that the FAFSA is messed up as far as divorced parents go and really needs to be revamped (even though I'm one of those people whose kids make out).

Per my divorce decree my ex and I have joint legal and physical custody. As the kids got older then tended to spend more time with my ex (not as many rules). Because of this he fills out the FAFSA forms. He's disabled (collects SSDI) and lives with his girlfriend and her two children. Girlfriend works full time and gets child support. Ex doesn't even file a tax return. Kids both work and claim themselves on their taxes. I can't claim them because I don't provide more than 50% of their support.

Both kids receive the maximum pell grant, need based aid and merit based aid from their respective schools. They also receive scholarships from outside the schools that they've applied for. Most years DD gets money back. DS just about breaks even.

My income isn't taken into consideration, and I think it should be, but that's not how FAFSA is set up.

If the kids lived with DH and I full time we'd have to fill out the FAFSA and include DH's income (who isn't related to my children) because FAFSA requires household income. That would definitely put them out of any need based funds, but DH has no legal financial responsibilty for my children. I don't think that's fair either.

Personally, I think in the situation of a divorce both parents should be required to provide their income/asset information.

 

[DebMcDonald]

I think its natural to feel a bit of "sour grapes" & BELIEVE me I understand perfectly. It seems your son's friend's mom has found a legal way to "beat the system". My daughter is a senior in college & we have paid completely out of pocket. We didnt qualify for anything other than loans and have scrimped and saved to avoid having to do that. We are a part of the overlooked middle class where we dont have enough money to just write a tuition check and we make too much to get financial aid. Its very frustrating

We're also in the same situation as above. My daughter is finishing her freshman year at a state school with no financial help from her biological father, but because I'm married it's my and my husbands responsibility to support her and according to our FAFSA we make too much money, not sure where any of that is. Last year FAFSA said we could afford $32,000, this year they feel we can pay $48,000, neither my husband nor I got a raise to make up that difference . My DD has a very good friend and also got a free ride to the same school, her's also did not include any work-study, not sure how it happened, but we're pinching pennies and she goes for free. Again that middle class that has nothing, but gets nothing either.

 

[yoopermom]

Thank you everyone for sharing. This boy I'm speaking of has a situation similar to many of yours, despite his mother's status, the father (who lives out of state) has a very good job (and is remarried to a woman with a good job), but obviously for the sake of getting $$$, he uses her lack of income on the FAFSA.

I don't hold a grudge, and know this kid will work his tail off to better himself, but it does seem like saving $$ and being frugal doesn't get you far....

Terri

 

[angierae]

The thing is, in the case of divorced parents it's going to be unfair to SOMEONE. If they did count the non-custodial parent's income, there's nothing saying the non-custodial parent is going to pay a dime. My divorce papers do not say anything about college costs. If we had to count my exhusband and his wife's (substantial) income, my daughter would have a much different financial aid situation, and there's no guarantee her father would give her a dime.

So it's a lose-lose situation, honestly. It's going to be unfair to _someone_.

 

[fan4wdw]

The financial aid system is definately flawed. My daughter's roommate freshman year was covered 100%, tuition, books, housing, and meal plan. In addition to that she had some type of Visa debit card she was given due to an overage in her aid for "extras" that she used to buy $150 jeans...

 

[Darcy03231]

The thing is, in the case of divorced parents it's going to be unfair to SOMEONE. If they did count the non-custodial parent's income, there's nothing saying the non-custodial parent is going to pay a dime. My divorce papers do not say anything about college costs. If we had to count my exhusband and his wife's (substantial) income, my daughter would have a much different financial aid situation, and there's no guarantee her father would give her a dime.

So it's a lose-lose situation, honestly. It's going to be unfair to _someone_.

But there's also nothing to say that parents that are still married will pay a dime either. Just because they fill out the FAFSA paperwork, there are no laws in the US (that I'm aware of) that require married parents to pay for their child's college education. It's a choice for them. On the other side, there are states that have laws that require divorced parents to pay for college. I happen to live in one of those states that doesn't require a divorced parent to pay for college.

Overall, I think that most parents (whether married or divorced) want their children to get a college education and will do what they can to either fund it or help out. Then there are those parents, both married and divorced, that won't do anything to contribute.

I just think the fairest way for all children to be on the same playing field is for both parents (not step-parents/significant others) to provide their financial/asset information.

I know a divorced woman who works part-time and receives alimony from her ex. Both of her children have gone to a state school and have received enough in need based aid that with their Strafford loans they pay nothing out of pocket. She fills out the FAFSA paperwork because they live with her. The kicker is that her ex-husband is a doctor and makes close to half a million dollars a year.

 

[Poohforyou]

Um.. ouch. I'm pretty sure PP meant 1300/month (1300 x 12 = 15,600 like the 15k she had stated in the beginning of her post)... and why does is matter to you how she gets $ for vacations? Sheeesh. Maybe her MIL/other family provide the trips.. either way it's really none of your beeswax.

Actually, it is all our business if people are being deceptive and getting gov't aid in any form. That aid is coming out of our pockets.

 

[xCourxCorex]

Actually, it is all our business if people are being deceptive and getting gov't aid in any form. That aid is coming out of our pockets.

Again, we don't know how those trips are paid for.. what if her very nice family provides the $ or pays for those vacations? Should she not take them because she has a low income and her kids got/are getting financial aid?? I wouldn't be so quick to assume someone is being deceptive when you don't have all the facts.

Like she said, she has custody of the kids, FAFSA asks for the primary custodial parent's info to determine need-based aid. What would be an issue is if the kids lived with their dad, lied to complete FAFSA and said they lived with lower-income mom just to get aid. Sounds to me like they were perfectly honest in their situation.

 

[EMAW_KSU]

I can say this.... I have three daughters, their father is a firefighter and I was at the time that my oldest started college only making $15k a year as a travel agent having just returned to the industry after being out for several years, and recently divorced. FAFSA went by MY income due to the fact that I had custody of the girls. They received everything available to them and did not have to take out loans at all, until my oldest decided she wanted to do a semester abroad internship (and then changed her mind, and paid the funds back already), and my middle was working on her bachelors and it was a private college so not as much funding available, she is still in school and finishes over the summer with her bachelors but has already been paying her loans back. Youngest hasn't taken any loans and is almost finished with her associates, however NOTHING has had to come out of our/their pockets for school because it went by my income.
I myself am a student now, changing careers, and working on my degree, the job market where we live is non existent and travel is a minimum 60 miles each way to even think about getting a job, but I am trying. Student loans are now helping me out, and I have started the repayment on them as well so that I do not have as much to worry about after graduation.
I guess my point is, FAFSA goes by the custodial parents wages/taxes, if there isn't an income, they do ask for an audit from time to time, I have done it 3 times since 2006 when my oldest started college, it isn't a big deal, they want income tax return copies (now called a transcript that comes straight from the IRS), and I had to have my MIL write a letter last year stating that she covers the electric/water here at the house as a way to help us out (school was questioning my $1300 income for the year prior). MIL does things for all her kids the way she wants to do them, she would rather pay utilities and know that there is nothing needed than have the kids inherit and pay taxes on it after she is gone.

I think I must be doing things the wrong way.

 

[okeydokey]

I can see the frustration when folks talk about multiple vacations and cruises in the past few years and then say their kids got a free ride. We can't afford the cruises or the tuition.

 

[goodfood4ursoul]

I'll be honest.
I think that problems occur when people start comparing themselves to others.
Comparing their vacations, their homes, their kids, the cars they buy their kids, their accomplishments, how much they paid for prom, or graduation or college tuition.

There is nobody else just like you.
Everyone's circumstances are different.
They may have some similarities, like comparing a granny smith apple with a red delicious apple.
Both are apples, but they look different and taste different and have different texture.

We share our stories and find universal common themes, even though circumstances may be different or even on opposite ends of the spectrum.
And hopefully we learn from one another.

But the bottom line is that we all have our own lives to live.
No amount of wishing makes circumstances different, and sometimes these comparisons can create a lack of gratitude for the blessings we do have
and resentment towards others that may be perceived by some as having a better set of circumstances.

Just call me a parent who pays tuition too, and is thankful to God for every dollar of financial aid and academic scholarship my son receives.

Even more thankful that this is the last year I have to do FAFSA!!!!!

Also, I am a parent who has been given two free trips to WDW...
(Thanks, Grandma & Grandpa! I never knew WDW even existed until they sent us...)

I am also a parent who scrapes and saves every penny (including no pay TV or smart phone, movies, fancy clothing or lunches out- the library is my friend )
so that we can help our son with tuition and still afford to stay off site cheap while we visit the water parks on our Water parks annual pass.
I'm too cheap to go to the big parks these days
And proud of it too~
And all y'all staying at the Grand Floridian and Poly- have a blast!!!
Do the very best you can, be proud, and make no apologies.


Nobody truly knows the intimate details of the lives of other people.
None of us have the right to judge another person, another parent,
by comparing them and their decisions to our own circumstances.

God bless all our college kids and give them (and us!) wisdom in our finances and in their time spent getting an education, and gratitude for all our blessings.

 

[Iforgetmypassword]

I can say this.... I have three daughters, their father is a firefighter and I was at the time that my oldest started college only making $15k a year as a travel agent having just returned to the industry after being out for several years, and recently divorced. FAFSA went by MY income due to the fact that I had custody of the girls. They received everything available to them and did not have to take out loans at all, until my oldest decided she wanted to do a semester abroad internship (and then changed her mind, and paid the funds back already), and my middle was working on her bachelors and it was a private college so not as much funding available, she is still in school and finishes over the summer with her bachelors but has already been paying her loans back. Youngest hasn't taken any loans and is almost finished with her associates, however NOTHING has had to come out of our/their pockets for school because it went by my income.
I myself am a student now, changing careers, and working on my degree, the job market where we live is non existent and travel is a minimum 60 miles each way to even think about getting a job, but I am trying. Student loans are now helping me out, and I have started the repayment on them as well so that I do not have as much to worry about after graduation.
I guess my point is, FAFSA goes by the custodial parents wages/taxes, if there isn't an income, they do ask for an audit from time to time, I have done it 3 times since 2006 when my oldest started college, it isn't a big deal, they want income tax return copies (now called a transcript that comes straight from the IRS), and I had to have my MIL write a letter last year stating that she covers the electric/water here at the house as a way to help us out (school was questioning my $1300 income for the year prior). MIL does things for all her kids the way she wants to do them, she would rather pay utilities and know that there is nothing needed than have the kids inherit and pay taxes on it after she is gone.

Wow, what a generous family you have!! To pay for 12 trips for Twirlmania, a cruise this year, 15 cruises since 2007, 6 trips to Pigeon Forge/GTlinburg since 2009...can I be adopted into your family?

 

[Marionnette]

Wow, what a generous family you have!! To pay for 12 trips for Twirlmania, a cruise this year, 15 cruises since 2007, 6 trips to Pigeon Forge/GTlinburg since 2009...can I be adopted into your family?

Not to mention that her MIL also pays her electric and gas bills. I wish someone would just pay my oil bill! It was over $600 for the last fill up.

 

[tar heel]

The post about not comparing yourselves to other people because you don't really know their circumstances is nice and reasonable EXCEPT some people on the internet tell us their circumstances. As a hard-working middle-income taxpayer whose children don't qualify for financial aid, I think I have a right to question someone who gets food stamps and lots of federal financial aid b/c some of that is my money.

For the record, I last went to WDW in 2007. I would like to go this year but haven't been able to make the numbers work for me yet.

 

[MrsPete]

Actually, it is all our business if people are being deceptive and getting gov't aid in any form. That aid is coming out of our pockets.

I don't think it's so much a case of people being deceptive so much as people who take advantage of a flawed system. I don't blame the people who are in unique situations who take money when it's offered to them -- but I do blame the powers that be, those who create the system with its inequities.

 

[angierae]

The reason these kids get a free rid when their parent's income is so low is so that those kids can do BETTER in their lives than their parents. If a kid coming from a low-income family didn't have a chance to go to college, they will proably end up being low-income themselves. It benefits society when kids can rise above their circumstances.

 

[Marionnette]

The reason these kids get a free rid when their parent's income is so low is so that those kids can do BETTER in their lives than their parents. If a kid coming from a low-income family didn't have a chance to go to college, they will proably end up being low-income themselves. It benefits society when kids can rise above their circumstances.

You'll get no argument from me when it comes to helping a disadvantaged kid make it through college so that she can better her lot in life. My issue is with people who are exploiting loopholes in the system to get financial aid (or food stamps, CHiP or any other benefit) for their kids. They are taking away resources from the kids that need it the most.

 

[yoopermom]

I don't think it's so much a case of people being deceptive so much as people who take advantage of a flawed system. I don't blame the people who are in unique situations who take money when it's offered to them -- but I do blame the powers that be, those who create the system with its inequities.

Amen! Thank you Mrs Pete!

Terri

 

[Planogirl]

You'll get no argument from me when it comes to helping a disadvantaged kid make it through college so that she can better her lot in life. My issue is with people who are exploiting loopholes in the system to get financial aid (or food stamps, CHiP or any other benefit) for their kids. They are taking away resources from the kids that need it the most.

I sympathize. Our son can't get financial aid and all of the loopholes seem closed when it comes to us. I don't begrudge people getting any help that they can but our taxes support that so it is annoying when it seems so unfair.