College degrees and Wages

[Philadisney]

I completely agree! kids and parents need to really think through what they want out of a career, both in pay and personal satisfaction before they commit to college . Like it's been illustrated in this thread, a college degree doesn't necessarily guarantee a good paying job. I know many construction workers who make over 100k/year and many teachers who make 30K and the like. Obviously construction is a more physical and dangerouos job but you get the idea.

i think it's hard for kids to grasp the idea of what a good wage is. i made $6.50 an hour in high school at a local record store. if you told me at 16 that i'd be making twice that in 7 years, i would have been very impressed it wasn't until i was already living and working on my own in my early 20's that i started to 'get' what it's REALLY like to be a grown-up and what kind of money is needed to get by in the city i live in.

 

[dcfromva]

Here is a link to an artile on average lifetime earnings:
Link to Lifetime Earnings Soar with Education

Here is a snip from that article:
..." The report titled "The Big Payoff: Educational Attainment and Synthetic Estimates of Work-Life Earnings" (.pdf) reveals that over an adult's working life, high school graduates can expect, on average, to earn $1.2 million; those with a bachelor's degree, $2.1 million; and people with a master's degree, $2.5 million.
Persons with doctoral degrees earn an average of $3.4 million during their working life, while those with professional degrees do best at $4.4 million."

Here is a link to the US Census Report upon which the previous article was based.

Folks can come up with thousands upon thousands of exceptions either way.. Some folks will be making more and some less--but overall, on average you can expect to make more money with a college degree when considering your lifetime wages.


-DC

 

[nckidwell]

I am a teacher and with a Master's degree plus 30 hours past the Master's degree (Rank I) I will make 50k sometime around the time that I retire. My husband is a social worker (who is on call 24/7) soon to have a Master's degree and he will probably never see 50k. However, what is important is that we both enjoy our jobs and feel that we are making a difference.

Oh yeah, when my husband graduated from college the best job that he could find paid $16, 640/year (this was only a few years ago). This also included being on call very often!

 

[fac]

I graduated last year with a BS in Computer Science. Trust me, the average salary isn't that great. All those articles said that the average starting salary for CS majors was @$50,000. Well, not exactly. If you live in an area where there aren't many students graduating with that degree, then yes. If you are looking for a job in an area heavily populated with CS majors, then you will make just about $35,000. I am friends with many engineering majors and just about none are making close to $50K.

I see you are from L.I. just some comments.
It all depends on where you work. My nephew graduated from Stony Brook in 2001 (or 2000??) with a Computer Science degree, got an interview while at school and was offered a job that paid 70k + bonus. It was not exactly Wall Street firm but close. It was the year that many firms reneged their offers. On the other hand, if they do make an offer, they pay reasonable salary. My nehpew thought he was lucky though.

 

[dcfromva]

Our economy seems to be at a crossroads right now in terms of what will be the next high demand type jobs (but, hasn't this always been so?).

If you look back at history, one thing that is constant is change. One example that I like to think of is the C & O Canal (Link to the C & O Canal) (If you are ever in Washington, DC, in the spring, summer and fall you can take a ride on The the C & O Canal Tow Path link to the schedule) What does the C & O canal have in common with today? Well, back in 1828 when they started building the canal, it was modern transportation. Getting a job associated with the canal might have seemed pretty secure, in the first years of operation. Unfortunately for the folks supporting the canal, train travel won out as a more efficient and cost effective way of transporting people/goods. All those jobs associated with the canal went away after a relatively short period of time.

The railroad was the up and coming industry for a period of time, too. It used to be a job with the railroad was a good paying and very secure job. It wasn't that long ago that having a job with the airline (if you had a good seniority number, anyway) was a very well paying and secure job.

I'll admit that I don't have much imagination, but 10-15 years ago, I would have never dreamed that it would be cheaper for a company to direct customer service calls over to India. (The jury is still out on whether they can actually provide the "service" in customer service--but, to even come up with the idea that you could technically do this cheaper would have been mind-blowing to me a few years ago.)

What about the transition from horse and buggy to cars? Folks who didn't change their occupations were left behind. I could go on and on with the examples. I have an ancestor that was a cooper. There are not too many folks in that sort of occupation these days. Occupations become obsolete as time goes on....

What is the point of all this? Our economy has always changed and it always will change. As our economy changes, we have to be able to adapt to be able to get the new high demand jobs. Maybe an education might give a person an edge in terms of being able to adapt...

-DC

 

[nckidwell]

Another teacher here so I make less than 50K. However I only work 187 days a year and have 10 days of paid leave. So I could work only 177 days. I have also had zero child care expenses since DD started Kindergarten.

Why do you work so many hours? My work week is 40 hours. I will sometimes put in an extra hour here and there planning but never anything near 65 hours. I work a couple of extra hours a week tutoring but receive extra pay for that.

I teach as well and probably put in 55 hours per week minimum. I don't see how you could get everything done in less time than that. I get there at 7:15. The last student leaves at 3:05. Then you have parent meetings or staff meetings. Then you have planning. Then you must also allow time to grade papers, prepare manipulatives, make parent phone calls, arrange guest speakers, plan field trips, take care of committee responsibilities, etc. Yes, you have 30 minutes planning time during the day, but this is when a majority of collaboration occurs (i.e. team meetings, ARC meetings, etc).

In the summers, I find that I am really not off very much. Many professional development opportunities are offered here. Not to mention the summer is when you can digest changes that have been made to curriculum maps and make plans for the next year.

 

[bord1niowa]

I agree that "working" teachers are way underpayed in many instances. Which brings me to my point. You'll notice I said "working" teachers.....At the state university here in Iowa, many of the professors don't even teach a class, or maybe one. Yet they are making 6 figures! Where is the fairness, not to mention the sense, in all that!? I always thought teachers were to teach? Maybe there's something I'm missing...... Next time they raise the cost of tuition by an average of 8%, as they do here, why doesn't someone ask if the "working teachers" are getting 8% raises? If I was a teacher, I would be screaming at the union, or National association of teachers or whoever is supposed to be looking out for me! Seems to me the teachers have actually been the last ones to be considered. Oh and on top of all that, the lower salaries etc, I know teachers often use some of their own money for supplies within the classroom. Maybe they don't have to replace the top of the line computers they buy from IBM every two years and save some money. Anybody else here using a computer more than two years old? Enough of my ranting.

 

[MyGoofy26]

.....At the state university here in Iowa, many of the professors don't even teach a class, or maybe one.

My aunt and I were talking about this last night because they were talking about raising rates at my university and I told her that most classes are taught by students. She was amazed, and even moreso when I told her that it's not uncommon for a professor to only teach one class a semester. . . sometimes not even each semester.

I don't know how it is in other schools or departments within the schools, but I know that our Comm department puts out more research than any other in the country. Our Univerisity pretty much expects that the professors are doing significant amounts of research in order to get grant money, research money, etc. They can waive fees for a few students to teach classes and call it a loss, but the money that our professors bring in by getting published more than makes up for it.

 

[Tiggeroo]

I think college offers more then pay. It allows you to work in a field you like. It also provides more job security. (generally)
My dh makes a very good living without a college degree. But if he was unable to find work in his field he is not qualified to do anything else. If you have a business degree there are alot of areas you could direct a job search. If you have a computer degree with a small amount of training you could specialize in another area. Teachers make less then alot of fields but they get some perks for it. Here you put in your time you will get a pension as well as health benefits on retirement.

 

[bord1niowa]

I'm confused. I thought schools were teaching institutions, not businesses. If teaching is now secondary, where have we gone wrong? If research is what's needed, then let research companies do it at their expense, not mine. If a student is in a class with 130 other students and each one is paying literally thousands of dollars for that class, where's the money going?

 

[fac]

At the state university here in Iowa, many of the professors don't even teach a class, or maybe one. Yet they are making 6 figures! Where is the fairness, not to mention the sense, in all that!? I always thought teachers were to teach?

Life is never fair as I used to tell my kids. I got to wash dishes and they got to eat. LOL !! University is different, they emphasize on research. A faculty member got tenured by publishing papers. Some people, after they got tenured, only work two days a week drawing a full salary. I had seen a professor using the same multiple choice exam paper every year. It is not uncommon for students to be taught by TAs, whom are Ph.D and master students and have a very busy workload themselves. Apparently, the better students can learn by themselves, in particular, when they are in college.

 

[patsal]

Well, I'm a teacher with a Master's degree and 12 years experience--this year I finally do not qualify for foodstamps (which I have never applied for or used, but found it interesting that with that much money and time spent on an education that I would qualify)! BTW I am still not close to the $50,000!

 

[NeverlandClub23]

i think it's hard for kids to grasp the idea of what a good wage is. i made $6.50 an hour in high school at a local record store. if you told me at 16 that i'd be making twice that in 7 years, i would have been very impressed it wasn't until i was already living and working on my own in my early 20's that i started to 'get' what it's REALLY like to be a grown-up and what kind of money is needed to get by in the city i live in.

I completely agree. When I was 18 and 19 I thought $10 an hour was rich living.

 

[Aimeedyan]

$50k! I don't know anybody my age that actually DOES make that Course, I'm in a LCOL area.

I have a bachelors and masters - I'm in ministry. Take a wild guess as to whether or not I'm making anywhere close to $50k =)

 

[Took]

Life is never fair as I used to tell my kids. I got to wash dishes and they got to eat. LOL !! University is different, they emphasize on research. A faculty member got tenured by publishing papers. Some people, after they got tenured, only work two days a week drawing a full salary. I had seen a professor using the same multiple choice exam paper every year. It is not uncommon for students to be taught by TAs, whom are Ph.D and master students and have a very busy workload themselves. Apparently, the better students can learn by themselves, in particular, when they are in college.

MY .02 worth: As a full-time prof. in a local comm college, I barely make $50,000/yr with many years experience and a PhD. However, as many have said, job satisfaction (I love teaching and I have Xmas/summers "off"), location (it's very cheap to live in central IL), and job security (I would be among the very last to go) have a lot to do with why a college education can offer more options to working individuals. A lot of making college pay isn't about which degree you get (you SHOULD do what you enjoy) but about marketing yourself and knowing what options are out there for you.

I often counsel uncertain students to really study the job market and to make themselves as flexible as possible while still pursuing their dreams. Have two majors (or, at least, two minors). Take many different kinds of courses. Go to talks and events on campus that discuss job opportunities in various fields. Consider being flexible about where you live (many college grads don't really want to move away from home). All these things can make college really pay off--financially and personally. Most of all, don't just "drift" through college expecting life to hand you a big paying job immediately afterward.

took

 

[iggbees]

GOOD ARTICLE, PIGEON: That being said #2 DS is a sophomore in college. Costing us as much as DS#1! DS#2 is majoring in ART HISTORY minor Political Science....

I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT HE WILL DO WITH ART HISTORY....

He is spending the summer on the Isle of Crete(Greece) doing excavations. College was given grant money and he was selected (along with others) to go. He said they will dig for POTTERY. Interesting? Maybe he could do that upon graduation from this very $$$$ private Catholic college here in the Northeast and then he could sell his POTTERY findings to the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NY....DS has informed me that "you have issues, mom"

BUT seriously, DS what will YOU do???

my minor was art history, and believe you me, i looked into what i could do with that. a lot of my friends have great jobs after they graduated with a degree in art history. it's all about connections. i was interested in going into art conservation, or restoration. the only problem is that i wasn't very good at making connections. i definitely had a ton of opportunities, but i blew them. most of my friends who graduated with art history degrees are now either working for museums, travelling or in graduate school for art history.

i'm wicked jealous that your son is able to go to crete. ancient greece and rome was my favorite art history class. that's going to be an amazing opportunity for him though.

anywhoo, i ended up in biochemistry (which was my major), and i don't make more than 26,000$ a year. i could have found a better paying job and lived at home, but i decided to move in with my bf who is in grad school for comp sci (he makes as much as i do).

 

[DisneyCowgirl]

I know plenty of people who graduated from law school and make less than $50k.

 

[mommabo]

Originally Posted by sk!mom
Another teacher here so I make less than 50K. However I only work 187 days a year and have 10 days of paid leave. So I could work only 177 days. I have also had zero child care expenses since DD started Kindergarten.

Why do you work so many hours? My work week is 40 hours. I will sometimes put in an extra hour here and there planning but never anything near 65 hours. I work a couple of extra hours a week tutoring but receive extra pay for that.

I teach as well and probably put in 55 hours per week minimum. I don't see how you could get everything done in less time than that. I get there at 7:15. The last student leaves at 3:05. Then you have parent meetings or staff meetings. Then you have planning. Then you must also allow time to grade papers, prepare manipulatives, make parent phone calls, arrange guest speakers, plan field trips, take care of committee responsibilities, etc. Yes, you have 30 minutes planning time during the day, but this is when a majority of collaboration occurs (i.e. team meetings, ARC meetings, etc).

In the summers, I find that I am really not off very much. Many professional development opportunities are offered here. Not to mention the summer is when you can digest changes that have been made to curriculum maps and make plans for the next year.

Well said nckidwell. I too have taught, and never had a 40 hour work week or my summers "off" ..... there is always room for improvement! However, I will say, I have seen my fair share of teachers who DO work 40 hours a week. The kids leave at 3:00 and they are out the door by 3:15 (without taking any work home with them). You could say they have many years of experience and have this "teaching thing" down to an art or perhaps they are ultra organized. Of course, these are the teachers that without exception, I will NEVER have as my child's teacher! When DH asks why I put in such long hours, I say because I would never give my students less than what I would expect for my own children.

BTW, do I think teachers could be paid more? Sure, but I love what I do, I know I can always find employment, and I've had great flexibility. Not to mention I had some really cool and unique job with this degree as well.

 

[mello]

Don't forget the most underpaid and overworked of them all- Stay At Home Moms!

 

[fac]

No plan to start a working mom vs stay-at-home mom debate.

But over lunch today, I discussed with DH on becoming a stay-at-home mom, because I have overworked by being working outside of home and be a mom. Therefore, by being stay-at-home full time, I think I will not be as overwork as I am now.