Cocker Spaniel... American vs. English

[LSUmiss]

I believe you. But just saying, we never had a problem with any of the six of our German Shepherds at the vet's. As a matter of fact they used to say how nice they were. Maybe in comparison, idk. At one of our biggest shelters where I live the shelter manager called my last German Shepherd the nicest she'd ever met - we were there to adopt a small dog. We'd found one and were all set to go, when I had the small dog on my lap, and my Shepherd came over to me. (We'd had to bring her to see that they got along.) When she came over, the little dog bit her in the face, twice, and my dog never even reacted at all. Prompting the comment from the manager. Ultimately she thought it wasn't fair to my Shepherd to have this dog in our home since my Shepherd had DM so we had to leave the dog there. (And the shelter manager scolded her saying "That's the second good family you've lost now!") This was my first encounter with "lap aggression" since I'd never had small dogs before. I made sure with my Cairn that we didn't invoke that problem with him. Oh and after that, we tried to adopt another small dog at an adoption fair. We asked about lap aggression and they said it wasn't an issue for the dog. But the foster mom pulled my DH aside and said, in fact, it was. So another dog who missed out. Which is why I say to people just be careful where you get the dog from and be careful if you have other animals and children with dogs like this. I think the reason Chihuahuas are so aggressive is because people hold them too much and don't let them be dogs. We watch one and he's the same way. If you try to put him down he quivers; doesn't even know what to do. Let dogs be dogs, even if they're small!

Oh, and just one more thing, sorry OT. But the way lap aggression happens is that dogs get inadvertently rewarded for this type of behavior when people laugh, think it's cute, or even subtlety praise the dog for "protecting" them. Gosh, this is so selfish! It's not funny or cute, and as I've explained, it can cost a dog a good home, or even its life if circumstances are right, so put the dog down most of the time and let him be a dog, teach him how to be a dog, etc. Rant over!

Oh aggression against other dogs is a whole other animal (lol!). Little dogs were always the worst for sure! I meant being aggressive or fear biters toward ppl.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Oh aggression against other dogs is a whole other animal (lol!). Little dogs were always the worst for sure! I meant being aggressive or fear biters toward ppl.

I hear you, I just got off on a tangent there, lol.

 

[sam_rogers]

Interesting opinion. I worked in veterinary medicine too for a long time & agree with the snippy thing, but there were so many worse breeds (imo) that if you told me to list the 10 worst, I’m not sure cockers would make my list. Not trying to argue with you b/c, of course, your experience is your own, but I thought it was interesting. Off topic, but a few of the breeds on my worst list in random order are Akitas, chows, german shepherds, shar peis, dachshunds (even though I have always had one), Dalmatians.

I'm currently working in the veterinary industry in the uk and I think I have maybe come across 1 or 2 cockers that I wouldn't trust but generally find them to be very sweet natured dogs... If not a little 'busy' it also seems to be the ones with red coats that can suffer from 'red rage' although this isn't very common.
I love seeing other people's worst dogs to treat in vet practice list, I definitely agree with shar Pei!! Mine also includes border collies (constantly eye balling you!) and westies, I always roll my sleeves down as soon as I know I've got to hold one!

Accurate list, minus the glaring chihuahua omission.

And this they turn into tiny balls of fury! My terrierx has some chihuahua in her and I blame this for her big issues when it comes to veterinary treatment!

Back to cockers though, I generally find the English cockers have better temperaments and personally I find them prettier, I don't really like the domed head of the American cocker. As pps have said, cockers are prone to ear problems and I have also seen a few bad cases of lip fold dermatitis.

 

[LSUmiss]

I'm currently working in the veterinary industry in the uk and I think I have maybe come across 1 or 2 cockers that I wouldn't trust but generally find them to be very sweet natured dogs... If not a little 'busy' it also seems to be the ones with red coats that can suffer from 'red rage' although this isn't very common.
I love seeing other people's worst dogs to treat in vet practice list, I definitely agree with shar Pei!! Mine also includes border collies (constantly eye balling you!) and westies, I always roll my sleeves down as soon as I know I've got to hold one!


And this they turn into tiny balls of fury! My terrierx has some chihuahua in her and I blame this for her big issues when it comes to veterinary treatment!

Back to cockers though, I generally find the English cockers have better temperaments and personally I find them prettier, I don't really like the domed head of the American cocker. As pps have said, cockers are prone to ear problems and I have also seen a few bad cases of lip fold dermatitis.

Wow! Border collies! They would never make my worst list IME. I’d actually put them near the top of the “good” list. I’m with you on Westies though & honestly most terriers.

 

[sam_rogers]

Wow! Border collies! They would never make my worst list IME. I’d actually put them near the top of the “good” list. I’m with you on Westies though & honestly most terriers.

Haha I'll admit most are pretty compliant, it's more the constant look in their eye that makes me not trust them and I've had a few snap at me over the years so I'm just extra cautious with them.

 

[jrmasm]

Accurate list, minus the glaring chihuahua omission.

I was surprised they weren't higher on your list than cockers. I have 2 of the little devils.

 

[aprilgail]

Interesting opinion. I worked in veterinary medicine too for a long time & agree with the snippy thing, but there were so many worse breeds (imo) that if you told me to list the 10 worst, I’m not sure cockers would make my list. Not trying to argue with you b/c, of course, your experience is your own, but I thought it was interesting. Off topic, but a few of the breeds on my worst list in random order are Akitas, chows, german shepherds, shar peis, dachshunds (even though I have always had one), Dalmatians.

I totally agree wit hit regarding German Shepherds- I have had 2 dog bites and both were german shepherd (two different ones)- one when I was walking down the street I was about 10 years old and it jumped up on the fence and took a chunk out of my shoulder and the other one jumped a fence when I was walking down the street and jumped up and bit my arm- I am very cautious around any german shepherd now-I will cross the street to avoid one even if they are being walked on a leash, never trust that breed anymore!

 

[maddiel]

I don't know what they are like as a breed in general, but we had a Clumber Spaniel when I was growing up and she was a very gentle dog. We got her from a breeder when she was about two - they hadn't been able to breed her. She had a deep dislike and suspicion of strange men that we figured came from some negative experience in her first couple of years, but she only barked at them.

M.

 

[GaSleepingBeautyFan]

I have a Cavalier King Charles spaniel and I think she looks exactly like Lady from Lady and the Tramp. If you look at Lady's face markings, they drew her with a blenheim cavalier's face and not a cocker face. Anyway, resemblance to Lady aside, if you're looking for a small dog, I absolutely would recommend a cavalier. They're bred to be lap dogs, mine is incredibly submissive and so good with children. There's an organization called Cavalier Rescue USA that has dogs to adopt if you don't want to shop, unfortunately most of them are senior dogs or have health issues but they do get puppies sometimes. I love love love my cavalier, I can't imagine having any other breed in our family.

I would 2nd this. My sweet Sophie was a mixed breed but mostly King Charles Cavalier spaniel. She was the sweetest friendliest dog ever. She did have an issue with barking at squirrels and rabbits but I didn't care since I didn't want them in my yard anyway. I also made sure she didn't bark so long to annoy the neighbors. My heart broke when cancer took her from us when she was only 8 years old.

If you can't find any Cocker Spaniels look for one of these. They are wonderful.

 

[Hrhpd]

I totally agree wit hit regarding German Shepherds- I have had 2 dog bites and both were german shepherd (two different ones)- one when I was walking down the street I was about 10 years old and it jumped up on the fence and took a chunk out of my shoulder and the other one jumped a fence when I was walking down the street and jumped up and bit my arm- I am very cautious around any german shepherd now-I will cross the street to avoid one even if they are being walked on a leash, never trust that breed anymore!

Again, poor breeding practices by backyard breeders has caused temperament issues in puppy mill and backyard GSDs. This is what happens when people do more research buying a washing machine than a puppy that will be with them for 10-14 years.

We breed and show GSDs. A properly bred gsd with a proper temperament is an absolutely lovely dog. That is why the Seeing Eye used them almost exclusively in the past as seeing eye dogs. Now, they are one of 4 breeds to be used (GSD, Lab, Golden, Lab/Golden mix.) If they had the natural tendency to be aggressive, they would not be a breed chosen to be in society all the time.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Again, poor breeding practices by backyard breeders has caused temperament issues in puppy mill and backyard GSDs. This is what happens when people do more research buying a washing machine than a puppy that will be with them for 10-14 years.

We breed and show GSDs. A properly bred gsd with a proper temperament is an absolutely lovely dog. That is why the Seeing Eye used them almost exclusively in the past as seeing eye dogs. Now, they are one of 4 breeds to be used (GSD, Lab, Golden, Lab/Golden mix.) If they had the natural tendency to be aggressive, they would not be a breed chosen to be in society all the time.

That's right. And a lot of people got them for protection and just stuck them out in their yards. With nothing better to do and little direction, they found a "job" on their own to do, and that was chasing kids and others away from their property, which was wrong - on all counts. I agree that a properly bred, trained and socialized German Shepherd can be a beautiful thing. Unfortunately, those can be hard to find today, and health problems abound. My last two were on wheels, and it just ripped my heart out and tore it to pieces. I had to take a break despite their being part of my soul.

 

[Hrhpd]

That's right. And a lot of people got them for protection and just stuck them out in their yards. With nothing better to do and little direction, they found a "job" on their own to do, and that was chasing kids and others away from their property, which was wrong - on all counts. I agree that a properly bred, trained and socialized German Shepherd can be a beautiful thing. Unfortunately, those can be hard to find today, and health problems abound. My last two were on wheels, and it just ripped my heart out and tore it to pieces. I had to take a break despite their being part of my soul.

One of the main reasons to make sure the chosen breeder does the DNA test for DM on both parents. If the parents are clear or one is clear and one is just a carrier, the puppies won't end up in wheels the last part of their life It is recessive so you should never breed two carriers together otherwise you run the risk of having multiple puppies in the litter have DM (degenerative myelopathy.)

 

[figment52]

sorry, wrong thread

 

[PollyannaMom]

I'm not a knowledgeable dog person, so definitely listed to others about health stuff!...But just looking at pictures, I think the English is prettier.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

One of the main reasons to make sure the chosen breeder does the DNA test for DM on both parents. If the parents are clear or one is clear and one is just a carrier, the puppies won't end up in wheels the last part of their life It is recessive so you should never breed two carriers together otherwise you run the risk of having multiple puppies in the litter have DM (degenerative myelopathy.)

With my last dog I thought I chose pretty well. Parents hips were certified, and the dad had his Canine Good Citizen and was a Certified Therapy Dog (a real one!), which is what my hope was for that puppy. Temperament was a major concern for me. It is hard to cover every single base; honestly I don't even know if it's possible to. My Cairn is from a top breeder but even some dogs from there have had some health issues crop up. As I said before, I tried to stack the deck as much as I could in favor for health, but there are never any guarantees 100% with living beings. And I'm in favor of adopting dogs when possible, if it's the right dog for your family, but with them there is generally little way of knowing any health histories, so you can wind up with problems that way, too. I guess you're taking chances any time you bring one home. I've been looking to adopt the right GSD for quite a while now, I can't tell you how many applications I've filled out, etc. I know that when I take one on again, it's a risk. If it's not DM, it's something else. That's been my experience.

 

[Hrhpd]

With my last dog I thought I chose pretty well. Parents hips were certified, and the dad had his Canine Good Citizen and was a Certified Therapy Dog (a real one!), which is what my hope was for that puppy. Temperament was a major concern for me. It is hard to cover every single base; honestly I don't even know if it's possible to. My Cairn is from a top breeder but even some dogs from there have had some health issues crop up. As I said before, I tried to stack the deck as much as I could in favor for health, but there are never any guarantees 100% with living beings. And I'm in favor of adopting dogs when possible, if it's the right dog for your family, but with them there is generally little way of knowing any health histories, so you can wind up with problems that way, too. I guess you're taking chances any time you bring one home. I've been looking to adopt the right GSD for quite a while now, I can't tell you how many applications I've filled out, etc. I know that when I take one on again, it's a risk. If it's not DM, it's something else. That's been my experience.

Absolutely, I agree with you 100% that you can't guarantee everything.

However, DM is one thing you absolutely can guarantee. It is genetic, so if you don't breed affected dogs, you don't get DM. And it is only a $65 swab you send in and get results pretty quickly. There is absolutely no excuse a breeder, especially a GSD breeder, wouldn't do this test on every dog they breed.

DM was originally thought to be only in GSDs but now has been seen in other breeds. There are 3 types, clear, carrier, and at risk. Clear means two normal alleles, carrier has one affected allele but will not show effects of the disease, and at risk means they have 2 affected alleles and will most likely get the disease as they get older. It has nothing to do with hip dysplasia and OFA results.

It is a relatively new test, so your GSDs' parents might not have been tested back then which is why your dogs got DM. But now, it is an absolute must to ask a breeder the results or look up the results in the online database to see the results before you purchase a GSD or any other breed that carries the disease. It takes both responsible breeders and responsible purchasers to eradicate this devastating disease from bloodlines.

 

[LSUmiss]

Absolutely, I agree with you 100% that you can't guarantee everything.

However, DM is one thing you absolutely can guarantee. It is genetic, so if you don't breed affected dogs, you don't get DM. And it is only a $65 swab you send in and get results pretty quickly. There is absolutely no excuse a breeder, especially a GSD breeder, wouldn't do this test on every dog they breed.

DM was originally thought to be only in GSDs but now has been seen in other breeds. There are 3 types, clear, carrier, and at risk. Clear means two normal alleles, carrier has one affected allele but will not show effects of the disease, and at risk means they have 2 affected alleles and will most likely get the disease as they get older. It has nothing to do with hip dysplasia and OFA results.

It is a relatively new test, so your GSDs' parents might not have been tested back then which is why your dogs got DM. But now, it is an absolute must to ask a breeder the results or look up the results in the online database to see the results before you purchase a GSD or any other breed that carries the disease. It takes both responsible breeders and responsible purchasers to eradicate this devastating disease from bloodlines.

What’s DM? Did I miss it spelled out earlier on the thread?

 

[Pea-n-Me]

What’s DM? Did I miss it spelled out earlier on the thread?

Degenerative Myelopathy. (I thought you worked in veterinary medicine?? )

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Absolutely, I agree with you 100% that you can't guarantee everything.

However, DM is one thing you absolutely can guarantee. It is genetic, so if you don't breed affected dogs, you don't get DM. And it is only a $65 swab you send in and get results pretty quickly. There is absolutely no excuse a breeder, especially a GSD breeder, wouldn't do this test on every dog they breed.

DM was originally thought to be only in GSDs but now has been seen in other breeds. There are 3 types, clear, carrier, and at risk. Clear means two normal alleles, carrier has one affected allele but will not show effects of the disease, and at risk means they have 2 affected alleles and will most likely get the disease as they get older. It has nothing to do with hip dysplasia and OFA results.

It is a relatively new test, so your GSDs' parents might not have been tested back then which is why your dogs got DM. But now, it is an absolute must to ask a breeder the results or look up the results in the online database to see the results before you purchase a GSD or any other breed that carries the disease. It takes both responsible breeders and responsible purchasers to eradicate this devastating disease from bloodlines.

Thanks for sharing. I did see that info on a link when I was looking to see what year they began testing. If I were getting a puppy from a breeder today I would ask about it. It's not the only thing I'm looking for, though. My last dog had a lot of health and temperament boxes checked off. As far as I see it, I can check the DM box off with a new puppy, but there are lots of other things that can happen, as well. (That one is particularly painful, though.)

 

[jt'smom]

Multi American Cocker Spaniel owner here, and I will tell you that our experience with our dogs has been wonderful. We got our twin boys from the same litter, 13 years ago, and we called them the "worst bred, pure bred" dogs on earth, lol. We got them from what we thought was a good breeder, well known, with lots of recommendations, and while we did learn that a good breeder would never sell 2 dogs, especially same sex, from the same litter, it didn't cause problems with ours. Temperament wise, Zack and Cody were sweet and loving from the get go, and extremely attached to each other. Both were excellent with our young son, and friendly and outgoing with strangers. Our boys have always gotten high recommendations from groomers and the vet, for being sweet and compliant. We did lose Cody at 9 from cancer, but Zack is still going strong at 13, not grumpy, just slowed down quite a bit. One thing to note for American Cockers, they are very social and cling-ons, which worked well for us since I was a stay at home mom, and would put them in the car and take them everywhere with me, so if you want a dog that is fine being left alone for long periods during the day, these dogs are not for you.