Classroom sizes

[MM27]

Emerging research says the quality of the teacher is more important to student learning than the number of students in a classroom. I would want to know more about the teacher before I got too concerned.

There are so many factors that would need to be looked at in those studies to make me believe they are valid. More kids in a classroom means less time that those kids have to individually interact with the teacher, good teacher or not. I student taught in a class of 27 first graders with a great teacher. That's just too high of a number to really do what needs to be done.

My district had caps at 22 for elementary classes. This year those numbers will be going up, don't know what to yet, because of layoffs. I've seen places where class sizes were up to 40 per class.

 

[okeydokey]

29 in a K class today is a whole different than 29 in a K class when I was in school. Back then we learned to take turns, listen to the teacher read, worked on pasting and cutting. Now our K students need to be ready to read by the end of K, beginning of 1st grade. 29 is too many IMO.

 

[okeydokey]

In Florida, there are class size limits. For grades K-3 the limit is 18 and for grades 4-8 the limit is 22. My daughter is in 4th grade this year and the class is actually a 3rd/4th split class. There are 22 in the class with one teacher and one aid. The aid just happens to be a credentialed teacher. Not sure why she is working as an aid but we are happy to have her in the classroom. My son is in 2nd grade and they have 16 so far in their class.

Wendi

This is actually the first year that the class size amendment will be fully implemented. Until now they were able to average the class with 29 in it and the class with 6 in it and lawfully meet the limit. That is why there is an amendment on the ballot this year to allow the averaging of class sizes.

 

[Mommee]

Rumor is (we don't start for a few weeks) that DS's grade (4th) is looking at 28-29 per class currently and around 25 per class if they hire another teacher. Last year they were at 26-27.

DD usually has around 23 in her grade. There are significantly fewer kids in her grade for some reason.

 

[kamik86]

This is actually the first year that the class size amendment will be fully implemented. Until now they were able to average the class with 29 in it and the class with 6 in it and lawfully meet the limit. That is why there is an amendment on the ballot this year to allow the averaging of class sizes.

Why would a school want to have a class with 29 students and another with 6?? In high school maybe (Calculus has 6 but they put 29 in normal math because the classes go by the level of the students) but in elementary school or middle school? mine were always as balanced as possible.

 

[Tinker'n'Fun]

20 kids has been our max (and people here complain about classroom size...).

Same here. DD normally had 10-15 kids in her classes, some had 5. DS's school has a higher enrollment and hits the 20 each time. Gym is an exception and they have around 50-75 per gym class, but it is divided into a few different sports each class.

 

[sharonmickey]

Wow! I can't believe how small some of the classrooms mentioned are. Last year we had more than 25 in each Kindergarten class, way too many; and yes, our school is full inclusion. The only Kindergarten class with an aide was because of a hearing impaired student and she was limited to signing for that student.

I live in a low-income district and none of the staff that retired this past year were replaced so class sizes will be higher this year. Our teachers would love to have under 20 students per class; but it won't happen here.

One fifth grade class had 24 students last year not including two autistic students. I don't know how the teachers do it.

 

[bucket o' butter]

This thread has been very enlightening. Thanks for all the posts! I just think anymore than 25 children in a classroom is not fair to the children or the teacher. I think kdg. and 1st grade shouldn't have more than 20.

In the school that I teach at , the kdg. classes were kept to around 20, but at another school in town, they have 29. Cuts were made at both schools, but in different ways. I have heard it will get worse next year. Let's pray that doesn't happen!

 

[aprilgail2]

Our classes are always maxed out at 26 kids per class

 

[MPwifey]

My pre-k class is 20 but our k classes are 25.

And yes 1 or 2 students throw off the dynamics of the whole room. I have had a child absent the whole week and it has been... Well... Heavenly!!

 

[richmond282]

In most places, schools are exempt from the teacher:child ratios you mention. Camps, child care centers, home day cares, etc. are bound by ratios based on age, but schools are not governed by the same regulations.

This is not entirely true. There ARE state mandated ratios for class sizes in a public school (don't know if they apply to private schools) but I assume they vary by state. I forget exactly what ours are but its something like 25 max for lower grades (K-2) and 30 for upper grades. Some high school classes are larger depending on what they are like chorus or band.

 

[kelleyrn2000]

Our district max (according to teachers contract) is 25 for K-2 (no aides) and 30 for 3-5 (currently at max capacity). Our school lost several teachers/classes this year due to IL not paying our school district, therefore class sizes have gone up, and kids who registered late are getting enrolled at schools across town.
We also have a bilingual class for each grade, and the class sizes are much smaller, typically 13-17 students, mandated to be smaller by a certain percentage. The bilingual program was intended for K-2, but we have so many "new to district" students that do not speak English at all, that they also have bilingual for older kids.

 

[Momof2princess]

We are very lucky in our class sizes. In k-1 there on average 15 -17 kids per class with an aide in each room. For grades 2-5 the class limit is 20 to 23 with a rotating aide for each grade. In not sure about middle and HA but from my understanding it is average 20 to 25 er rehular class (sans band,chorus,OR ext.)



((

 

[actnkidz]

Well, I just found out that at our private school my DD will have 35 in her kindergarten class with 1 teacher and 1 aide. I am not happy, I was nervous with the 30 that they told me would be in the class. My DS who is 9 will be moving to this school as well and he will have 35 in his 4th grade class with 1 teacher. We moved from a school where he only had 8 students in his class last year, but unfortunately the school closed because of low enrollment.

I guess time will tell how it is going to progress. The public schools here in LA just dropped their classroom size limits because of budgets. I have heard they will have 30 in Kindergarten. They are also shortening the school year because of furlough days. Not many choices, it feels like I am choosing the worser of 2 evils.

 

[snowy76]

The number of kids in a classroom is really such a small part of the equation. The needs of those kids is the bigger part. If you have no kids with special needs, and you have kids who are well behaved, 27 is very doable.

This is a good point. I teach high school so I can tell you, when you have two classes of equal size (in this case, it was 22 kids) and one has one IEP student, the other has seven, there is a difference in terms of both time spent reinforcing material and/or dealing with behavioral stuff.

And I say this as a mother of a preschooler with an IEP, so I hope no one construes this as coming down on kids with IEPs... not at all, if anything I think the system doesn't recognize and/or address learning issues early enough at times - too much waiting for kids to "grow out of it".

Even without kids with special needs, I think there is an advantage to small classes for small kids. Developmentally they require a lot, and I would expect those classes to be smaller than high school ones (I always tell my h.s. students it's time to pull on their big kid underwear and get their work done and they will, because they are old enough to be independent).

That all being said, I also agree that many kids are entering school without the.... social skills, if you will... to handle a class setting, small or big! Lots of coddling from parents and lots of constant questioning of the teacher's abilities, and they enter school expecting to be babied. The comment from the PP about the cartoon is sooooooo fitting.