Clash of the Theme Parks - Disney vs. Universal - NY Times Article

[crazy4wdw]

Interesting article in the New York Times regarding Universal's new attractions and its upcoming battle with Disney:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/21/b...sh-from-comcast-takes-aim-at-disney.html?_r=1

 

[BamaEd1]

I thought it was a great article and quite accurate. It was strange that Disney refused to comment for it as well. The biggest question that I have is the one that the article didn't seem to ask or answer: Disney opened Hollywood Studios (then MGM of course) in a rush to beat Uni. Of all of the parks, it is the one in Florida that is the absolute biggest mess; no coherent theme at all (any more). We know Avatar is coming to AK, Epcot is getting an improved Test Track with hopefully more to come in FW (update Imagination PLEASE), MK is getting FLE soon; what about DHS? Pixar Place, building out Muppets, and putting in a "Lucas Land" would be incredible (and expensive of course) and would do wonders for the park. Is there any chance of any of these ideas/rumors actually coming true?

 

[DisDadMatt]

Do you really think they would push forward with a Stars Wars land with Avatar in the mix? If they did, Avatar wouldn't get the buzz, hype or attendance as it would all focus on a Stars War Land.

With Avatar land, I think that rumor could be put to rest for the foreseeable future.

But agree that DHS needs A LOT of work!

 

[BamaEd1]

Do you really think they would push forward with a Stars Wars land with Avatar in the mix? If they did, Avatar wouldn't get the buzz, hype or attendance as it would all focus on a Stars War Land.

With Avatar land, I think that rumor could be put to rest for the foreseeable future.

But agree that DHS needs A LOT of work!

That's a great point on Star Wars. I think we can agree that DHS needs the same amount of love (and $$$$) that the FLE is getting. The most logical area for me would be Pixar Place; clones are relatively cheap. While I would love a few more e-tickets, 3 or 4 C/D level attractions would do that park wonders. A couple for Pixar, 1 around Muppets, and retheme/ add a D around Star Wars. It would be really nice to move Pizza Planet to Pixar Place (themed to look like the movie of course) and put in a Swedish Chef "smorgishbourg" where it is now. Of course, update and upgrade the great movie ride. Now, we're starting to get a park that lives up to potential.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I disagree that studios is in the most neglect.

animal kingdom is a failed vision that has much more potential for development and also has a much higher operating cost - which makes it even more important to generate more revenue.

but studios is neglected as the little brother.

i think that is by design - which i've gone over before and don't want to bore anybody with again.


But what this article really does is point out two points that diffuse the whole argument:

1. the line that attendance at universal boost attendance at WDW - which is 1000% true and had been found to be the case each time it has been looked at since 1989.
2. that universal is small potatoes in terms of monetary value compared to WDW...which again is well documented and indisputable.

If the goal is to show that universal/comcast is stepping up (with disney-trained Brian Roberts as CEO and now in charge of 1/4 of the media and - by default - the world)...then there is a valid point.

But they take a liberty here - the statement that disney is "watching with clenched jaw" is an assumption - if you read the article there is no source to validate that.

They also left out how the avengers is actually going to cause universal to pay disney more...which is no small thing. and that the reason battleship is failing is because disney has covered its cost on the film and is now printing money with merch, further ticket sales, and home video to come.
Again...that should be highlighted in the spirit of the article.

The article is not entirely inaccurate...but the times can do much better.

they also include the interesting tidbit that the fantasyland expansion's current price tag is roughly 1/2 of the original announced value....and disney never "saves" money on construction unless they don't bother to built something.

that shows that they didn't fully commit to it - which means they aren't quaking over potter....and that the avatar project is far from certain.

which should surprise no one who is paying attention.

 

[skier_pete]

Meh...I don't think that article says anything new. Second half seems like a ad for the transformers ride.

 

[mitros]

I honestly never went for that "Universal might top Disney nonsense"
WDW is just so much larger and diverse than Universal, and they {Universal} have limited expansion space.

 

[OldsDr]

I honestly never went for that "Universal might top Disney nonsense"
WDW is just so much larger and diverse than Universal, and they {Universal} have limited expansion space.

They only way I can enviaion this happening ( I am not proposing it will) would be if Universal and Sea World expanded a nd promoted that pass they have together and started some sort of Bus transportation between the universal resorts and sea world and maybe some other small close attractions.


But I doubt it would happen or even be a suscess if they tried.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

They only way I can enviaion this happening ( I am not proposing it will) would be if Universal and Sea World expanded a nd promoted that pass they have together and started some sort of Bus transportation between the universal resorts and sea world and maybe some other small close attractions.


But I doubt it would happen or even be a suscess if they tried.

and the problem there is that whichever conglomerate owns the two individual park operations at a time are comfortable enough to never attempt to "get Disney!" with somekind of klingon/romulan alliance.

People often overlook just how hard (aka expensive) it is to run the disney compound. it is why the upper management all have toupees. Logistical hell...was always difficult, post eisner expansion a real treat.

So...why would anyone want to combine seaworld and universal - straddling I-4, the orlando convention center, and 8000 tourist traps on I-Drive and take a shot at the title?
they wouldn't - because its not their money - its publically traded stock money they're operating with.

There are boundaries...and this one would be over it.

Besides, Comcast and Disney signed a "creative content" partnership last spring...after comcast had bought NBC (main ABC competitor) and disney had bought marvel (main component of soon to be comcast run parks)...
Comcast has no need or want to "make war on mouse village"

no "hulk smash"...and even if he did...disney owns him and it would be an internal union grievance.

 

[DCTooTall]

They only way I can enviaion this happening ( I am not proposing it will) would be if Universal and Sea World expanded a nd promoted that pass they have together and started some sort of Bus transportation between the universal resorts and sea world and maybe some other small close attractions.


But I doubt it would happen or even be a suscess if they tried.

I doubt you'd see the "Flex Pass" expanded at this point. One of the primary reasons it was even developed is that the Blackstone group which owned 50% of the Universal complex also owned Sea world. Blackstone sold their share of Universal back to Comcast/Universal last year, so the relationship between the 2 park complexes isn't the same as it was when the pass was introduced.

As it is, I don't expect Universal to try and "beat" Disney in Florida. The Orlando marketplace is an extremely unique beast which while it may appear to be very cutthroat (Us vs Them) to outsiders, it actually has a LOT of symbiotic relationships for all the companies involved. This isn't like having a Six Flags on one side of town and a Cedar Fair park on the other competing for the local crowd. The stronger each player is, the more they will bring in the crowds from outside the local market who are drawn to a location they can get many different unique experiences on one trip.

The great thing about Comcast's ownership of the Universal parks is that unlike GE/Blackstone, They see the advantages of reinvesting in the parks to improve and expand the experience. This in turn, has caused Disney to stop resting on their laurels like they have over the past few years and start reinvesting money into the Florida parks as well. For us, the guest, This means that we are seeing both resort complexes getting more than just a fresh coat of paint every year which helps give us reasons to keep coming down.

 

[doconeill]

2011 attendance numbers might be out soon, but the 2010 numbers, which gave about 6 months worth of the Harry Potter boost, still had IOA and USF at a mere 60% of DHS, the lowest ranking WDW park (AK was only slightly higher).

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Too many people missing the point. Universal will never rival Disney head to head. As pointed out the logistics don't even make it an argument reasonable people would ever subscribe to. But Universal can be a force unto itself.

Potter showed just how successful innovation can make them, within their niche and they forced Disney to ante up.Disney didn't want to add on. If Universal shuttered up tomorrow I guarantee we'd never see Avatar or anything else creatively interesting from Disney.

So the salient point, which Disney fans always seem to ignore, is that a successful and innovative Universal is good for all theme park goers. Without them, at this point, Disney would return to shopping center development and meet and greet additions.

Lastly, I was just pondering how great Disney might look today had Comcast succeeded in their Disney takeover and we'd avoided the Iger years altogether. Just wondering on this.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

2011 attendance numbers might be out soon, but the 2010 numbers, which gave about 6 months worth of the Harry Potter boost, still had IOA and USF at a mere 60% of DHS, the lowest ranking WDW park (AK was only slightly higher).

i have the crystal ball and i can tell you what those numbers will show...

WDW parks - across the board - will have a higher percentage of attendance increases than any other park in the area (or the country for that matter) and they will blow away the little brothers at the gates in sheer volume.

can you guess why?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Too many people missing the point. Universal will never rival Disney head to head. As pointed out the logistics don't even make it an argument reasonable people would ever subscribe to. But Universal can be a force unto itself.

Potter showed just how successful innovation can make them, within their niche and they forced Disney to ante up.Disney didn't want to add on. If Universal shuttered up tomorrow I guarantee we'd never see Avatar or anything else creatively interesting from Disney.

So the salient point, which Disney fans always seem to ignore, is that a successful and innovative Universal is good for all theme park goers. Without them, at this point, Disney would return to shopping center development and meet and greet additions.

Lastly, I was just pondering how great Disney might look today had Comcast succeeded in their Disney takeover and we'd avoided the Iger years altogether. Just wondering on this.

yeah...i get all that...i've been preaching it to the stars since the "oh no...disney's in trouble...harry potters coming" days on silly threads...

i disagree that disney is doing their current "2 billion dollar" upgrades to counter anyone...i think those represent the minimum they can get away with based on the ridiculous timelines and years of stagnation that will be sandwiched in the construction timelines (no major additions for what? 4 years now?). i think they are C students when it comes to dedication to their parks now.

I do believe that Stevie and Brian Roberts issued the "non-solicited bid" in cahoots with Roy Disney and possibly Steve Jobs or other major players to put the nail in eisner's coffin.

I don't think it was ever meant as legitimate other than to crash the board. which is exactly what happened. Roberts has a soft spot for disney....my take

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

yeah...i get all that...i've been preaching it to the stars since the "oh no...disney's in trouble...harry potters coming" days on silly threads...

i disagree that disney is doing their current "2 billion dollar" upgrades to counter anyone...i think those represent the minimum they can get away with based on the ridiculous timelines and years of stagnation that will be sandwiched in the construction timelines (no major additions for what? 4 years now?). i think they are C students when it comes to dedication to their parks now.

I do believe that Stevie and Brian Roberts issued the "non-solicited bid" in cahoots with Roy Disney and possibly Steve Jobs or other major players to put the nail in eisner's coffin.

I don't think it was ever meant as legitimate other than to crash the board. which is exactly what happened. Roberts has a soft spot for disney....my take

Thanks. Very interesting postulations and very, very realistic possibilities. I hadn't thought of things that way but Roy was pissed so, maybe...

I get your reasoning for your opinion on the recent Disney expenditures and don't disagree other than to say that Universal's success with actual imagination may have raised the ante somewhat on what they were planning (hoping for). Certainly I could be wrong but ...

 

[ChrisFL]

i have the crystal ball and i can tell you what those numbers will show...

WDW parks - across the board - will have a higher percentage of attendance increases than any other park in the area (or the country for that matter) and they will blow away the little brothers at the gates in sheer volume.

can you guess why?

Because they make up their numbers as they go?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Because they make up their numbers as they go?

no...but that's a good answer too...

because the disney parks always enjoy the biggest boosts across the board....in fact, the ioa harry potter bump is probably the only time they didn't win every category...

and that will resume...rest assured