Clarification on David's rental situation

[ray3127]

I am a first time renter and I have no idea what to do. We received our travel credit offer from David’s yesterday and I haven’t accepted or declined it. I had originally planned to accept it then rebook in July for June of 2021, but after all of the posts with unhappy owners pulling their points and discussing possible bankruptcy, I am terrified. Our trip insurance will not cover a pandemic, so my only other option is a chargeback with Chase.

I feel so sorry for you. I think the tough thing that has us all asking questions is how much can we trust David's, both right now and in the future?

I was fine taking the 125% cruise credit from DCL for our cancelled March cruise, because I know I can sail with them again. I have more confidence in The Walt Disney Company to do right by its customers than most any other company out there. But I don't know if David's will be around when my points are officially used by renters in September. Likewise, if I was a renter I would be concerned about my ability to use a voucher at some undetermined future date. I'm sorry you are in this position, and don't know how to advise

 

[McCrae]

Some corrections regarding your post.

Most that took out insurance are not receiving payments.

I have sympathy for owners that feel not providing the contracted accommodations in exchange for the renters money does not apply in the case, but no available room through no fault of the renter means they are due a refund.

Personally I would never rent a reservation unless I was prepared to refund the renter should my agent close the property.

If owners are entitled to have their points ectended due to the closure Disney will provide it.

Owners could have taken steps to protect themselves and need to take responsibility for the problems they now face.

I never stated that most renters that had insurance were getting payments.

It’s the renters responsibility to make sure any insurance they take out covers the risks the want to insure against.

If a renter is not happy with the no refunds clauses and the insurance options available don’t sign the rental contract, walk away and pay full price to Disney. No one was forced to sign the rental agreement.

The contract owners signed with David’s protects them from most of the risks involved. I always new there was a risk that David’s may not pay the 30% due at check in. I accept that money is gone and there is little I can do about it. I wouldn’t have signed a contract with David’s if I had to wait until check in to receive any payment.
I don’t like the terms of Davids new contract and won’t rent with him again.

Owners using David’s don’t have an option of refunding or rescheduling for the renter connected to them. David’s has made it clear, the contracts owners have are with him, not individual renters.

I expect and know Disney will stick to the terms of the contract I have with them. I have no complaints regarding how they are managing this issue.

It‘s my obligation to stick to the terms of any contract I sign, I expect others to do the same.

 

[peaceluv&mickeymouse]

I have been following these posts as well. I am a first time renter. We have a room Booked for September and we have every intention of going. I recently emailed David’s with our Magical Express info and they were very quick to get the info to the owner and we received a confirmation email that it was added. I still need to add the dining plan as well. I am hoping the resorts are open by then, my worry is the comments I see about the owner cancelling? If that happens who owes me the money, I really hope they wouldn’t cancel as they see we have every intention of going (just adding our Magical Express).

I also have a question....we (husband and I) are going with daughter/son in law and granddaughter. If the 3 of them do not feel Comfortable by then to go, my husband and I still plan to go. How hard is it to remove the 3 names from the reservation. Is that something I can do or does the owner need to change it?

 

[Marionnette]

I have been following these posts as well. I am a first time renter. We have a room Booked for September and we have every intention of going. I recently emailed David’s with our Magical Express info and they were very quick to get the info to the owner and we received a confirmation email that it was added. I still need to add the dining plan as well. I am hoping the resorts are open by then, my worry is the comments I see about the owner cancelling? If that happens who owes me the money, I really hope they wouldn’t cancel as they see we have every intention of going (just adding our Magical Express).

I also have a question....we (husband and I) are going with daughter/son in law and granddaughter. If the 3 of them do not feel Comfortable by then to go, my husband and I still plan to go. How hard is it to remove the 3 names from the reservation. Is that something I can do or does the owner need to change it?

Your contract is with David's. They would owe you the money or a suitable alternate room arrangement if the owner cancels the reservation. David's would then go after the owner for reimbursement.

You cannot change anything on the reservation. You would have to send the request to David's, who in turn would notify the owner. As long as the name of the primary contact is not being changed, it is an easy, online process. Dropping or changing the lead name involves making a phone call and could take the owner a while to accomplish.

 

[Madame]

Some corrections regarding your post.

Most that took out insurance are not receiving payments.

I have sympathy for owners that feel not providing the contracted accommodations in exchange for the renters money does not apply in the case, but no available room through no fault of the renter means they are due a refund.

Personally I would never rent a reservation unless I was prepared to refund the renter should my agent close the property.

If owners are entitled to have their points ectended due to the closure Disney will provide it.

Owners could have taken steps to protect themselves and need to take responsibility for the problems they now face.

Nope. Renters are due a refund by David’s. Renter and d owners each have a contract with the broker. Owners did take steps to protect themselves- they used a broker touting a risk free rental experience

 

[RNicole1]

1. When was your original trip ?
2. Have you considered a credit card charge back??
You could always use voucher after credit charge back - others have posted as such
As you know you only get one chance with voucher and then - no soup for you!! You out !!
David’s word is very doubtful at this point - buyer be aware - I would consider charge back - but that is me.
Please let us know what you do and how it goes
Thanks so much for posting !!

Our original trip was supposed to be May 23-30 at the Poly.
We have considered the chargeback but we can’t do it until May 23 and I heard it can be a long process. I asked David’s how long I have to accept or decline the credit and this was the reply I got, so I am still not sure what to do!

“The decision on if and when to accept the Terms & Conditions of the Travel Credit system is at the discretion of each guest.”

 

[Dracula]

I have been following these posts as well. I am a first time renter. We have a room Booked for September and we have every intention of going. I recently emailed David’s with our Magical Express info and they were very quick to get the info to the owner and we received a confirmation email that it was added. I still need to add the dining plan as well. I am hoping the resorts are open by then, my worry is the comments I see about the owner cancelling? If that happens who owes me the money, I really hope they wouldn’t cancel as they see we have every intention of going (just adding our Magical Express).

I also have a question....we (husband and I) are going with daughter/son in law and granddaughter. If the 3 of them do not feel Comfortable by then to go, my husband and I still plan to go. How hard is it to remove the 3 names from the reservation. Is that something I can do or does the owner need to change it?

It is very easy to remove names from the reservation - literally a 1-minute job on the DVC website (when it works). But, you don't actually need to remove anyone unless you plan on buying the dining plan. Only the main guest needs to check in at the resort and show ID and credit card.

 

[Marionnette]

Our original trip was supposed to be May 23-30 at the Poly.
We have considered the chargeback but we can’t do it until May 23 and I heard it can be a long process. I asked David’s how long I have to accept or decline the credit and this was the reply I got, so I am still not sure what to do!

“The decision on if and when to accept the Terms & Conditions of the Travel Credit system is at the discretion of each guest.”

Your trip may be canceled by DVC prior to May 23. Cancellations have been occurring on a rolling, weekly basis. Keep an eye on you MDE account and when the reservation disappears, you can begin your chargeback. The reservation may be canceled as early as Friday but definitely sometime next week.

Yes, it can be a lengthy process. But then, getting David’s to actually make a new reservation with that voucher will also take time. They are not making new reservations until August. By then, you should have a good indication from your CC company as to which direction they will go with your case.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

Maybe there is a lawyer or an insurance professional around here who can clarify, but this was always my understanding of how insurance works....

Travel insurance is there to cover you when there are no other options to recoup your money due very specific reasons usually outlined in the contract. In this example, I wouldn't actually expect a travel insurance to pay out if you are not travelling due to the resort being closed. The resort being closed is a failure of the travel provider (there seems to be a debate about whether this is Davids or the Owner). A breach of contract can be remedied through court proceedings, therefore the insurance won't pay out. If travel insurance did pay out, you can technically double dip.

If the resorts were open, but you weren't able to travel due to having Covid (and buying pre-pandemic), I would expect insurance to pay out depending on the specific contract language. If the resorts were opened but you couldn't travel because of the fear of catching Covid, I would not expect insurance to pay out. The grey area would be for international travelers who couldn't travel due to border restrictions. I don't really know how that one would play out.

 

[SwirlTheCitrus]

As a first time renter whose May reservation (that was already rescheduled from March) is about to be canceled, as the points that I am renting expire June 1st, what should I be doing?

I really appreciate your guys's expertise in this; it's a lot to try and process for something that I don't understand extraordinarily well.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

We aren't using David's but another broker. We were originally booked late March, and before credits were offered worked with our owner to reschedule to Thanksgiving. It was less than ideal. Thanksgiving is going to be nuts, and we had to take SSR but their points expired Dec 1st. We then got a credit and rescheduled to the Boardwalk Feb 14th-20th (Mardi Gras break for us). I am hoping all goes well with this reservation. Apparently our renting member has confidence they will get paid.

 

[fancymouse]

So DVC owners, do you wish you would have rented them out yourself?

Renters, do you wish you would have rented with an owner direct vs using a broker?

...I was going to rent out my points via a broker, but when I found out they will report for taxes, I couldn't stomach the lower $amount I'm going to get and get taxed for it, so I basically went direct and charged just a slight $1buck above what I was going to get from the broker. When C19 hit, I gave 100% refunds even though my contract said no refunds. Was just the right thing to do for my situation. Sometimes dealing with 1 on 1 works best.

I asked something similar in the other thread, but from a renter's perspective. It sounds like a lot of owners are saying they'll rent their own points now, but unless I am missing something that doesn't really solve the problem at hand. Who should take the loss in the result of a resort closure? I see there are benefits to working directly with an owner that relate mostly to cutting out the middle man, but it definitely doesn't solve everything.

Assuming all other solutions have been exhausted, I have a feeling a lot of private rentals are also at a point where rebooking isn't possible and now they are at an impasse. It sounds like you (and some other owners) went above and beyond and refunded money completely. That is amazing of you all!

However, I guess what I am wondering is if people like you represent the majority of owners. Reading through the David's thread it seems like most owners who rented though him want their money plain and simple (not judging - just observing). Alternatively, I see private owners saying they refunded their renters' money outright. If I had to guess, owners who didn't refund anything are probably not admitting that as freely, but is the difference that owners who rented with David's feel like the middle man is pulling one over on them (which I see arguments for)? It just seems like owners feel David's owes them money, but owners with private rentaIs say they are refunding. I truly see all sides of this situation and everyone is justified to feel how they feel. Whichever side is made whole leaves the other side feeling shorted. But from a renter's perspective, unless you just happened to get a really nice owner, I would imagine you are in the same boat as with David's?

 

[starry_solo]

I am a first time renter and I have no idea what to do. We received our travel credit offer from David’s yesterday and I haven’t accepted or declined it. I had originally planned to accept it then rebook in July for June of 2021, but after all of the posts with unhappy owners pulling their points and discussing possible bankruptcy, I am terrified. Our trip insurance will not cover a pandemic, so my only other option is a chargeback with Chase.

when is your trip supposed to happen? Get screenshots of Disney’s announcements closing the resorts, the reservation on MDE (if still online), the date the reservation disappears from MDE, basically documentation that shows your reservation (including the contract).

once the date you check in passes, call your credit card company and file a chargeback for services not received (the accommodations). Provide them a copy of the new contract from David’s that changes the existing terms of original contract and gives you no protection at all.

send an email to David’s requesting a refund for the accommodations.

submit all required documentation To credit card company with chargeback

 

[starry_solo]

As a first time renter whose May reservation (that was already rescheduled from March) is about to be canceled, as the points that I am renting expire June 1st, what should I be doing?

I really appreciate your guys's expertise in this; it's a lot to try and process for something that I don't understand extraordinarily well.

file a credit card chargeback. Was your reservation rescheduled with the new contract?

 

[ray3127]

I asked something similar in the other thread, but from a renter's perspective. It sounds like a lot of owners are saying they'll rent their own points now, but unless I am missing something that doesn't really solve the problem at hand. Who should take the loss in the result of a resort closure? I see there are benefits to working directly with an owner that relate mostly to cutting out the middle man, but it definitely doesn't solve everything.

Assuming all other solutions have been exhausted, I have a feeling a lot of private rentals are also at a point where rebooking isn't possible and now they are at an impasse. It sounds like you (and some other owners) went above and beyond and refunded money completely. That is amazing of you all!

However, I guess what I am wondering is if people like you represent the majority of owners. Reading through the David's thread it seems like most owners who rented though him want their money plain and simple (not judging - just observing). Alternatively, I see private owners saying they refunded their renters' money outright. If I had to guess, owners who didn't refund anything are probably not admitting that as freely, but is the difference that owners who rented with David's feel like the middle man is pulling one over on them (which I see arguments for)? It just seems like owners feel David's owes them money, but owners with private rentaIs say they are refunding. I truly see all sides of this situation and everyone is justified to feel how they feel. Whichever side is made whole leaves the other side feeling shorted. But from a renter's perspective, unless you just happened to get a really nice owner, I would imagine you are in the same boat as with David's?

As an owner, the problems I have with David's are:
- lack of consistency, i.e. selectively enforcing certain parts of the contract while ignoring others
- lack of effective communication
- questions about the company's solvency

The reason I used David's to begin with was to make things easier. But in the middle of this crisis, it is clear that David's is not making things easier. So moving forward I won't use them.

It is true that his pre-pandemic contract was pretty straight-forward, and owners feel they are due the funds promised. But I think that most all of these owners are also willing to work with renters on an alternative plan. Personally, I asked my initial questions to get a feel for how David's is handling things, what options renters have been given, and how owners have dealt with things.

Because of the unique nature of DVC points (banking/borrowing are final; holding points; etc.), I think that the non-refundable part of renting is important... Owners don't have the flexibility to be changing things around. However, in situations like this (which are unprecedented), I also think owners are willing to do the right thing and help out renters as much as possible. And it is clear to me that working with a renter directly, and not through a middleman, is the best way to make sure everybody is treated fairly.

 

[Sandisw]

I have been following these posts as well. I am a first time renter. We have a room Booked for September and we have every intention of going. I recently emailed David’s with our Magical Express info and they were very quick to get the info to the owner and we received a confirmation email that it was added. I still need to add the dining plan as well. I am hoping the resorts are open by then, my worry is the comments I see about the owner cancelling? If that happens who owes me the money, I really hope they wouldn’t cancel as they see we have every intention of going (just adding our Magical Express).

I also have a question....we (husband and I) are going with daughter/son in law and granddaughter. If the 3 of them do not feel Comfortable by then to go, my husband and I still plan to go. How hard is it to remove the 3 names from the reservation. Is that something I can do or does the owner need to change it?

I would add that I would wait to add the dining plan until closer to the trip and you know what is happening. This way, if you have to ask the owner to remove the guests, you don’t have to worry about a refund of the plan too

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I would add that I would wait to add the dining plan until closer to the trip and you know what is happening. This way, if you have to ask the owner to remove the guests, you don’t have to worry about a refund of the plan too

Right now, for any reservation I would wait for the last instant under the applicable booking rules to add DDP. No one knows what dining scenarios are going to be, particularly with TS, but even across the board given issues with supply chain for food items.

 

[SwirlTheCitrus]

file a credit card chargeback. Was your reservation rescheduled with the new contract?

Yes-- but I did not agree to the voucher.

 

[fancymouse]

As an owner, the problems I have with David's are:
- lack of consistency, i.e. selectively enforcing certain parts of the contract while ignoring others
- lack of effective communication
- questions about the company's solvency

The reason I used David's to begin with was to make things easier. But in the middle of this crisis, it is clear that David's is not making things easier. So moving forward I won't use them.

It is true that his pre-pandemic contract was pretty straight-forward, and owners feel they are due the funds promised. But I think that most all of these owners are also willing to work with renters on an alternative plan. Personally, I asked my initial questions to get a feel for how David's is handling things, what options renters have been given, and how owners have dealt with things.

Because of the unique nature of DVC points (banking/borrowing are final; holding points; etc.), I think that the non-refundable part of renting is important... Owners don't have the flexibility to be changing things around. However, in situations like this (which are unprecedented), I also think owners are willing to do the right thing and help out renters as much as possible. And it is clear to me that working with a renter directly, and not through a middleman, is the best way to make sure everybody is treated fairly.

I totally agree, but have just been thinking about how the rental market looks moving forward. I would definitely never rent from a broker again, but I just can't see how renting privately is really a whole lot better. I get there is faster, more direct communication, but again I would imagine there have to be situations where rebooking is not possible. In this particular type of rental agreement (points having an expiration date etc), the owners' and renters' interest don't always align and so strictly from a renter's perspective David's doesn't seem to be any riskier than a private owner. Obviously there are a lot of factors working against David even being able to continue to do business, but my observations are that to the casual renter (not one that does a lot of research or reads threads like this), the new contracts look better for them and apparently he charges less per point than private renters. I truly thought that the rewrite would just add a clause about no refunds for resort closures, but apparently he is promising vouchers for future closures too! I understand these vouchers may be useless, but most people don't. As we speak there are conversations happening on Facebook Disney groups and people are still singing David's (and other brokers') praises. Now they even add the voucher as a "plus"! To most renters the ease of matchmaking, possible lower prices, and illusion of security seem better on the surface. Only those that have been paying attention understand the problems with their middleman model. I'll just be interested to see if renting points stays as popular Good luck with your situation!

 

[CanadaDisney05]

and illusion of security seem better on the surface. Only those that have been paying attention understand the problems with their middleman model. I'll just be interested to see if renting points stays as popular Good luck with your situation!

And as a renter, there probably is more security going through a broker than "some guy/gal on the internet". This isn't a usual situation. This is a world defining moment in history. The odds of something of this magnitude (once we are fully past this) happening again during your particular future reservation is pretty remote. Odds of "some guy/gal on the internet" taking your money and running are probably a lot higher in comparison (even if you do your due diligence).

Even in this situation, it all depends on the owner you rented from privately. If your owner refunded you or rescheduled you, great. But I'm sure there are many, many renters out there who are not getting a dime back from the owners or won't be able to get there trips rescheduled. They are actually in a worst position than dealing with Davids. Atleast with Davids you have choices such as chargeback or voucher. Say what you want about the value of the voucher and the going concern of the company, I'd much rather have the voucher in hand than having rented from a private owner who flat out refused to work with me.