Circumcision may stop millions of HIV deaths-study

[hentob]

http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/STD/fleiss3/

"Historically, the most common reason given for circumcision has been that it prevents ************. Today, the most common reason given is that it inhibits the transmission of STDs, even though rigorously controlled studies have consistently shown that circumcised males are at greater risk for all major STDs than males whose *****es are intact."

I find this to be interesting: past "health benefits" of circumcising:

************
headache
insanity
epilepsy
paralysis
strabismus
rectal prolapse
hydrocephalus
clubfoot

Actually, that is interesting. Odd, but interesting.

You are a wealth of info. I like the DIS b/c of this. I learn something new everyday But, you know, I still have to disagree on circumcision preventing a bond between mother and son

 

[JennyMominRI]

Actually, that is interesting. Odd, but interesting.

You are a wealth of info. I like the DIS b/c of this. I learn something new everyday But, you know, I still have to disagree on circumcision preventing a bond between mother and son

I really question the bonding thing myself..I also learned that RIC became popular during the Victorian era as a way to prevent masterbation

 

[DawnCt1]

That's it, just say they all have mental problems. I think that was a bit of a cop-out response, and I'm surprised it came from you.

I know for me, if I found out as an adult that an important part of me had been taken, and that my sexual function had been changed, even slightly, I'd do what I could non-surgically to get it back. I don't think that would mean I'm a whack job, just someone who doesn't like other people messing with MY body.

How about the women in Africa who have undergone circumcision (let's talk about the more common clitoral hood removal, rather than the rare infubulation). Do they have a right to be upset and want back whaat was taken from them or do they have mental problems too?

I don't think you can remotely compare male circumcision to the groteseque mutilation of young girls in Africa. The practice actually involves the partial or the complete cutting away of the female genitalia resulting in permanent disability and sometimes death. There is no indication that male circumcision interferes with any function at all.

 

[Tinijocaro]

I don't think you can remotely compare male circumcision to the groteseque mutilation of young girls in Africa. The practice actually involves the partial or the complete cutting away of the female genitalia resulting in permanent disability and sometimes death. There is no indication that male circumcision interferes with any function at all.

There are several types of FGM, from the ceremonial nick to the clitoral hood, to the horrifying infibulation, and some in beween. Did you see that I wasn't referring to infibulation? Infubulation is actually not nearly as common as the types of FGM similar in nature to male cirumcision. You say male circumcision doesn't interfere with function (which is absolutely not true, but it's too late to get into it tonight, perhaps some time tomorrow I can explain).

If you had your clitoral hood (foreskin) removed forcefully, at any age, don't you think you would have the right to be upset about it? What if it happened when you were an infant, and you learned about it as an adult. You probably wouldn't miss it, but I wonder how thrilled you would be about it.



I think that by implying that poeple who are upset that their foreskin was taken from them for no good reason are crazy or mentally imbalanced or whatever you were trying to incinuate, you are ignoring a basic human right- the right to bodily integrity- for ALL sexes. No matter how severe the damage, genital cutting is genital cutting- male or female, and it's wrong.

I know I said I was going to bed, but that darned PB and Fluffer Nutter sandwich is aggrivating my gall bladder- who knew?

 

[Tinijocaro]

Here's more on how very similar FGM is to MGM.

http://www.circumstitions.com/FGMvsMGM.html

And a more in depth article for those who would like to read more:

http://www.norm-uk.org/page.html?action=showitem&item=885

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

I think the people who conducted the study will have a tough time convincing their target aduience (African males) that circumcision will help. Frankly, if it were me, I'd rather wear a condom than get circumcized, but they don't have much success convincing them to do that, either. I also think it's kind of silly to use this study to defend US circumcision, but I'm sure it will be done.

BTW, I have 2 sons, neither is circumcized. I researched both sides and found no compelling evidence that the procedure benefitted them, so why do it? So they stayed the way God made them. If they decide they wanted to be altered when they're older, I would support that, if asked.

 

[Galahad]

DW's group - large OB group at University Medical Center - has delivered 560 babies so far this year. 308 or them have been boys. Exactly 3 sets of parents asked for them not to be circumcised. Bonding seems to have commenced nicely.

 

[Pigeon]

I think that by implying that poeple who are upset that their foreskin was taken from them for no good reason are crazy or mentally imbalanced or whatever you were trying to incinuate, you are ignoring a basic human right- the right to bodily integrity- for ALL sexes. No matter how severe the damage, genital cutting is genital cutting- male or female, and it's wrong.

Amen. If boys grow up and decide as adults to have parts of their own genitals chopped off, that's their decision. But it should not be something done to them.

DW's group - large OB group at University Medical Center - has delivered 560 babies so far this year. 308 or them have been boys. Exactly 3 sets of parents asked for them not to be circumcised.

Data from the National Hospital Discharge Survey put circumcision rates at 56% in the US in 2003, so your wife's experience doesn't seem to reflect the national situation at all.

 

[DawnCt1]

DW's group - large OB group at University Medical Center - has delivered 560 babies so far this year. 308 or them have been boys. Exactly 3 sets of parents asked for them not to be circumcised. Bonding seems to have commenced nicely.

We have four boys. All four were circed. The last two I stayed with. The procedure was with the bell clamp and scapel. They cried when they were restrained. I whispered in their ear, stroked their heads and they stopped crying and did not cry during the procedure. Comfort measures and distraction was enough "anesthetic".

 

[LukenDC]

It amazes me that we calmly allow this to be done to our sons but if we were talking about routinely removing female babies clitorus I think we would all consider the practice barbaric. :

There is no comparison between a foreskin and a ********. The glans is the part of the male analogous to the female ******** and the glans is left intact during circumcison.

 

[chobie]

DW's group - large OB group at University Medical Center - has delivered 560 babies so far this year. 308 or them have been boys. Exactly 3 sets of parents asked for them not to be circumcised. Bonding seems to have commenced nicely.

They asked for them NOT to be circumcized? Shouldn't be the other way around and they would have to ask for this procedure to be done? Does this OB group recommend it or assume it will be done? What helped me to make the decision not to cut my son was my OB practice did not take a stance either way but did say it was basically a cosmetic procedure. Had they made it seem that it was the norm and that not having him cut would be some bizarre (or perhaps even wrong) choice to make, I might not have made the choice I did.

 

[chobie]

There is no comparison between a foreskin and a ********. The glans is the part of the male analogous to the female ******** and the glans is left intact during circumcison.

I agree. I did not cut my son, but I in no way find this to be an accurate comparison to what they do to girls. And I think it trivializes female genital mutilation. While there may be some slight health benefits for removing the foreskin (again not enough for me to subject my son to this) there are no health benefits for girls and in fact causes many health problems for them.

 

[Tinijocaro]

For those who have never seen a circumcision performed:

http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/video.html

This site has a lot of great information on the history of circumcision. Who knew that John Harvey Kellogg, of Kellogg cereals, was huge in the circumcision to prevent masterbation movement.

"Kellogg was a zealous campaigner against ************, recommending extreme methods. In his Treatment for Self-Abuse and its Effects he wrote:

A remedy for ************ which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision. The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment. In females, the author has found the application of pure carbolic acid to the cl****is an excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement.

He also claimed that ************ was a primary cause of acne, among other things, including atrophy of the testes. 1 In one extreme case, at the request of a 10 year old girl's father he performed surgery to remove the girl's cl****is. Scientific advances have since shown that carbolic acid is highly dangerous and can cause mutations, irritations, burning and other unpleasant symptoms if the skin touches on it for any length of time and ingesting the substance can be fatal[citation needed]."

To me, I don't care how high the circumcision rate is, I don't base my ethics on what everyone around me is doing For those that care, it is slightly above 50% right now. Depends on where you live, the coasts and larger cities having less circumcision.

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

So if circumcision in men lowers the incidence of HPV, it stands to reason that there would be lower incidence of HPV in their partners.

I tend to think that there may be a huge link between HPV and HIV, as I mentioned a few pages back. If HPV is indeed a risk factor for HIV infection it would hold true for women AND men. Right now the vaccine is being targeted to women as a preventative measure against cervical cancer, but what if men were vaccinated as well? Would eradicating HPV slow the spread of HIV transmission? Hmmm.

I think it would be a monumental task to change the belief system of millions of people in Africa to embrace routine circumcision. On the other hand, I would think anything that might help would be worth considering since the disease is so prevalent.

 

[scraptoons]

"Adult only, no infant consentment" arguments do not stand against the Jewish laws, which requires infant circumcism. Their faith includes this procedure. You can go read Leviticus and some other Old Testament books to further understand. I'm not Jewish, I'm just defending them.

My DS cried when his diaper was removed .

But he was quiet during the procedure.

An adult however, would feel it.

 

[Tinijocaro]

There is no comparison between a foreskin and a ********. The glans is the part of the male analogous to the female ******** and the glans is left intact during circumcison.

I know you are referring to Snowites post about total clitoral removal, but often, just the clitoral hood (foreskin, prepuce) is removed. This would be more analogous to the male foreskin. How much cutting is acceptable. Just the foreskin, just a nick to draw blood as the Sunnis do but are forbidden to do in our country? How much is acceptable?

 

[Tinijocaro]

"Adult only, no infant consentment" arguments do not stand against the Jewish laws, which requires infant circumcism. Their faith includes this procedure. You can go read Leviticus and some other Old Testament books to further understand. I'm not Jewish, I'm just defending them.

I don't think anyone here is discussing religious circumcision, nor do I think we should. Routine infant circumcision has nothing to do with religion, and the Jewish Bris has nothing to do with medical benefits.

 

[Tinijocaro]

"Adult only, no infant consentment" arguments do not stand against the Jewish laws, which requires infant circumcism. Their faith includes this procedure. You can go read Leviticus and some other Old Testament books to further understand. I'm not Jewish, I'm just defending them.

My DS cried when his diaper was removed .

But he was quiet during the procedure.

An adult however, would feel it.

For me, the pain an infant goes through is a minute part of why I'm opposed to circumcising infants. The primary reason I'm opposed is the fact that a child is born with a healthy, functional body part that is removed not only without his consent, but without medical need. Whatever happened to the Hippocratic Oath- First Do No Harm. Removing healthy body parts that serve a purpose is harmful, and there are risks- babies die each year due to complications of circumcision. Babies don't die from having a foreskin.

 

[VSL]

They asked for them NOT to be circumcized? Shouldn't be the other way around and they would have to ask for this procedure to be done?

Exactly what I was wondering.

 

[scraptoons]

For me, the pain an infant goes through is a minute part of why I'm opposed to circumcising infants. The primary reason I'm opposed is the fact that a child is born with a healthy, functional body part that is removed not only without his consent, but without medical need. Whatever happened to the Hippocratic Oath- First Do No Harm. Removing healthy body parts that serve a purpose is harmful, and there are risks- babies die each year due to complications of circumcision. Babies don't die from having a foreskin.

My ds was quiet during the procedure, that was to point out that he did not have any pain what so ever.

I respect your opinion. It doesn't change mine.
We are all diversed and have experiences and factors in life that bring us to what we believe.

Sure there is a small percentage of babies that suffer from risks. But it is probably the same percentage of anything else that babies are at risk of.

There is a risk to everything. We take those risks everyday.