Churches venture into AIDS activism at home

[Aidensmom]

I think that these AIDS ministries are great. I think it is a little sad though that the topic can't be discussed without it becoming a "your sin is worse than my sin" discussion.

Jesus welcomed everyone who wanted to get to know him and to learn from him. IMO, churches should therefore do the same. As a Christian, I believe I should be willing to "spread the Good News" to those who want to hear, and should try to be as Christ-like as I can in MY life, but that the relationship that another has with God is really only known to that person and God. I am more than willing to support others in learning more about their walk with God, and to share with them what I believe to be the truth, but in the end, someone's walk with God is their own responsibility. If someone truly has a relationship with God, they will feel convicted if they are sinning, at it will happen when God wants it to happen. He has a plan. And to finally bring me to my point....

I think pretty much everyone on this thread agrees that these AIDS ministries are a good thing, and yet no one seemed to notice that, instead there is arguing amongst everyone. For some reason, I don't think THAT is God's plan.

 

[yeartolate]

Jesus welcomed everyone who wanted to get to know him and to learn from him. IMO, churches should therefore do the same.

Stands claps and whistles for Aidensmom!

 

[Buckalew11]

A lot of twisting of words on this thread. Interesting read though...

Oh and on page one I see Hokie and 2Funny posted at the same time. I guess they ARE 2 separate people.

 

[JennyMominRI]

This is what we should be talking about today..Not the *sinful *nature of PWA"S
.These names and those of the 40 million people who are currently living with AIDS along with the 25 million who are gone..Not to mention all of our felow forum mebers living with AIDS.. You would be surprised how many of us are posting here.

Athletes
Arthur Ashe (1943-1993), tennis player and social activist; infected via transfusion during heart surgery
John Curry (1949-1994), figure skating champion, died of AIDS-related illness
Esteban De Jesus (1951-1990), world champion boxer
Rudy Galindo (b. 1969), figure skating champion
Magic Johnson (b. 1959), probably most famous for his public announcement in 1991 that he had been infected with the virus HIV and would retire from basketball
Greg Louganis (b. 1960), diver; knew he was HIV-positive since 1988, announced it in 1995
Tommy Morrison (b. 1969), world champion boxer, tests in 1996 revealed he was HIV-positive, automatically retiring him from boxing as a competitor; underwent a technique known as "sperm washing", designed to allow HIV-positive men to have HIV-negative children
Rubén Palacios world champion boxer
Tim Richmond (1955-1989), NASCAR driver. Won 7 races in 1986 and finished 3rd in points.
Trevis Smith (b. 1976), linebacker for the CFL's Saskatchewan Roughriders
[edit]
Entertainers
Peter Allen, (1944-1992), screen and stage entertainer
Néstor Almendros (1930-1992), cinematographer
Emile Ardolino (1943-1993), filmmaker (Sister Act, Dirty Dancing)
Howard Ashman (1950-1991), film songwriter
Rick Aviles (1952-1995), American actor
Andy Bell, (b. 1964), lead singer of the pop group Erasure
Michael Bennett, (1943-1987), choreographer
Christopher Bernau, (1940-1989), actor (Guiding Light)
John Bindon, (1943-1993), British Actor
Amanda Blake, (1929-1989), actress (Kitty Russell on Gunsmoke)
Sandra Brea, (d. 2000), Brazilian television actress
Joseph Breen, (b. 1958), soap opera star (As the World Turns)
Jim J. Bullock, (b. 1955), television actor (Too Close for Comfort)
Geoffrey Burridge, (1949-1987), British Actor
Carlos Busquets, Puerto Rican astrologer
Merritt Butrick, (1959-1989), actor
Michael Callen, (1955-1993), Singer, songwriter, AIDS activist and author, Michael is recognized as a co-inventor of safe(r) sex.
Cazuza, (1958-1990), Brazilian singer, composer and poet, died of AIDS-related illness
Ian Charleson (1950-1990), British actor and star of the film (Chariots of Fire) (1981)
Cyril Collard, (1957-1993), French writer/actor/director of Les Nuits fauves (Savage Nights)
Patrick Cowley, (1950-1982), synthesizer artist
Robbin Crosby, (1960-2002), guitarist for rock band Ratt; HIV-infected by a tainted needle while addicted to heroin; died of AIDS-related causes
Brad Davis, (1949-1991), American actor (Midnight Express)
Bobby Debarge, (1945-1995), American singer
Patrick Esposito Di Napoli (d. 1994), Canadian musician (Les Colocs)
Kiki Djan (1957-2004), Ghanian singer
Eazy-E, (1963-1995), rapper, member of NWA
Denholm Elliott, (1922-1992), distinguished British actor
Kenny Everett, (1944-1995), British actor and disc jockey
Wayland Flowers, (1939-1988), entertainer, puppeteer (Wayland Flowers and Madame, Madame's Place)
Richard Frank, (1953-1995), American actor (Anything But Love)
Leonard Frey, (1938-1988), Acted in Fiddler on the Roof on Broadway and in the movie
Thomas Fuccello, (1936-1993), American actor (Dallas)
Christopher Gillis, (1951-1993), dancer and choreographer, Paul Taylor Dance Company
Kevin Peter Hall (1955-1991), played the title role in Predator opposite Arnold Schwarzenegger
Anthony Hamilton, (1952-1995), actor also known as Tony Hamilton
Dan Hartman, (1950-1994), American, singer, songwriter and record producer
Ofra Haza, (1957-2000), Israeli pop singer
John Hargreaves, (1945-1996), Australian actor
Fred Hersch (born 1955), jazz pianist
René Highway (1954-1990), Canadian Cree actor and dancer
Rock Hudson, (1925-1985), Hollywood star, first major American celebrity whose AIDS diagnosis became public knowledge
Richard Hunt, (1951-1992), Muppet performer (Beaker, Scooter, Statler)
Paul Jabara, (1948-1992, American Actor (Hair) and songwriter of Donna Summer's Last Dance
Derek Jarman, (1942-1994), film director, made the film Blue while blind (as a result of AIDS related causes)
Holly Johnson, (b. 1960), lead singer of Frankie Goes to Hollywood
Michael Jeter (1952-2003), actor (Open Range, The Green Mile)
Larry Kert, (1930-1991), Broadway performer (West Side Story)
Fela Kuti (1938-1997), Nigerian musician and political activist, died from AIDS-related heart failure
Paul Lekakis, singer and actor, best known for his 1987 #1 dance single "Boom, Boom (Let's Go Back to My Room)"
Liberace, (1919-1987), pianist
Lar Lubovitch, (1943-), choreographer, Lar Lubovitch Dance Company
Jimmy McShane (1957-1995), British/Irish singer known as Baltimora
John Megna (1952-1995), actor; died from AIDS, played Dill Harris in the 1962 "To Kill a Mockingbird"
Freddie Mercury (1946-1991), singer and musician; died from bronchial pneumonia (his death from AIDS-related causes led to The Mercury Phoenix Trust anti-AIDS charity and the Freddie Mercury Tribute Concert for AIDS Awareness)
Andy Milligan, (1929-1991), director of exploitation movies
Jacques Morali, (1947-1991), disco composer and co-creator of the Village People
Timothy Patrick Murphy, (1959-1988), American actor (Dallas)
Klaus Nomi, (1944-1983), singer, died of AIDS-related illness in 1983, one of the first celebrities to die of this disease
Rudolf Nureyev (1938-1993), dancer
Chuck Panozzo, rock bassist (Styx)
Anthony Perkins (1932-1992), pneumonia, brought on by AIDS
Dack Rambo, (1941-1994), American actor
Gene Anthony Ray (1962-2003), actor (Fame), complications of a stroke
Sharon Redd, (1945-1992), American disco singer
Robert Reed, (1932-1992) actor on The Brady Bunch
Tony Richardson, (1928-1991), British actor, producer and director
Arthur Russell, (1951-1992), musician
Franklyn Seales, (1952-1990), American actor (Silver Spoons)
Tommy Sexton (1955-1993), Canadian television comedian
Ray Sharkey, (1952-1993), American actor
Paul Shenar, (1936-1989), American actor
Hugo Soto (1954-1994), Argentine actor
Michael Staniforth, (1945-1987), British stage actor
Jermaine Stewart, (1957-1997), American singer, liver cancer caused by AIDS.
Michael Sundin, (1961-1989), British children's television presenter and actor, died from AIDS-related complications
Sylvester, (1944-1988), disco artist and drag performer
Charlotte Valandrey, (b. 1968), French actress (Rouge baiser)
Ron Vawter (1949-1994), actor; died from a heart attack
Ricky Wilson (1953-1985), original member of The B-52's
[edit]
Politicians
Sheldon Andelson, (died 1987) University of California Regent
Brian Huskins, Canadian political candidate
Larry McKeon, only openly gay member of the Illinois House of Representatives
Peter McWilliams, author and libertarian activist
Chris Smith, former UK Secretary of State for Culture
Jean-Luc Romero, french political candidate.
[edit]
Writers and artists
Reinaldo Arenas (1943-1990), novelist
Isaac Asimov, (1920-1992), science fiction writer; infected by transfused blood during heart surgery
Ron Athey, performance artist
Joseph Beam, anthologist
Leigh Bowery, (1961-1994), performance artist, fashion designer, dancer, model
Melvin Dixon, author
Michel Foucault, (1926-1984), philosopher
Hervé Guibert, (1955-1990), novelist
Keith Haring, (1958-1990), artist
Essex Hemphill, author
Peter Hujar, (1934-1987), American photographer
Gibson Kente, (1932-2004), playwright
Larry Kramer, novelist and playwright
Christine Maggiore, writer
Michael McDowell (1950-1999), screenwriter and novelist
James Merrill, (1926-1995), poet
Douglas Rezek
Paul Monette (1945-1995), novelist and poet
Marlon Riggs, author and video producer
Assoto Saint, author
Barabara Samson
Dennis Schuetz (d. 1989), novelist
Randy Shilts (1951-1994), American journalist and author
Andrew Sullivan, conservative journalist
Félix González-Torres, (1957-1996), conceptual artist
LeRoy Whitfield, (1969-2005), writer and activist [1]
David Wojnarowicz, (1954-1992), artist, writer and activist
[edit]
Others
.
Rebekka Armstrong (b. 1967), HIV educator and former Playboy Playmate

Omar Q. Beckins (1957-1989), medical researcher who contracted AIDS in a lab accident
Kimberly Bergalis (1968-1991), first known doctor-to-patient transmission
Allan Bloom (1930-1992), political philosopher and academic
Dave Brindle, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation journalist
David Brudnoy (1940-2004), Boston radio talk show host, merkel-cell carcinoma unrelated to AIDS
Gia (1960-1986), model, died of complications resulting from AIDS in 1986, at the age of 26
Tina Chow (1951-1992), restauranteur and model
Roy Cohn (1927-1986), lawyer
Joey DiPaolo (b. 1979), contracted AIDS by a blood transfusion at the age of four, activist.
Gaëtan Dugas (1953-1984), famous as the subject of an early epidemiological study into HIV/AIDS
Althea Leasure Flynt (1953-1987), wife of publishing magnate and Hustler founder Larry Flynt, as well as a Hustler co-publisher.
Eve van Grafhorst (d. 1993)
Halston (1932-1990), American fashion designer
Sighsten Herrgård (1943-1989), Swedish fashion designer
Nkosi Johnson (1989-2001), AIDS advocate
Patrick Kelly (1954-1990), American fashion designer
Lance Loud (1951-2001), part of the PBS reality TV show An American Family
Suzi Lovegrove
Troy Lovegrove
Makgatho Mandela (1950–2005), son of Nelson Mandela
Robert Mapplethorpe (1946-1989), photographer
Sgt. Leonard Matlovich (1943-1988), decorated Vietnam War veteran; fought the US military in 1975 for the right to serve as an openly gay man
Ernesto Pimentel, Peruvian, Chola Chabuca
Margrethe (Grethe) Rask (1930-1977), Danish physician and surgeon, first non-African known to have died from AIDS.
Stephanie Ray (b. 1986), AIDS advocate
Mitch Rosario (1972-2003), hairdresser to celebrities such as Ricky Martin and Paulina Rubio
Max Robinson (1939-1988), American Broadcasting Corporation journalist
Steve Rubell (1943-1989), owner of Studio 54 disco in the 1970s
Eliza Jane Scovill (2002-2005), died from untreated AIDS-related pneumonia. Her mother, Christine Maggiore, wrote a book titled What If Everything You Thought You Knew About AIDS was Wrong? and father Robin Scovill directed a movie, The Other Side of AIDS to encourage HIV+ people to refuse standard treatment.
Willi Smith (1948-1987), American fashion designer
Ryan White (1971-1990), See Ryan White CARE Act ([2])
Pedro Zamora (1972-1994), The Real World participant

 

[cardaway]

Oh and on page one I see Hokie and 2Funny posted at the same time. I guess they ARE 2 separate people.

One person could have multiple accounts, multiple windows open, and submit multiple posts within the same minute.

 

[Buckalew11]

Well, I guess that shows you how computer illiterate I am! I had know idea you could do that.

 

[jimmiej]

So basically, "Don't Judge Each Other, but rather Respect Each Other and Be Nice to Each Other" is what religion is suppossed to be about.

Here's what Paul says concerning judgement:

1 Corinthians 5
Expel the Immoral Brother!
1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? 3Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present. 4When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature[a] may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
6Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.

9I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

If you are a believer, it is my duty to make you aware of your sin and vice versa.

James 5

16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
17Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. 18Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops. 19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

Again, please show me in the Bble where it says that one sin is greater than any other, I'll be happy to show you where the Bible also contradicts that. And show me where it says that churches should decide which sins they publicaly criticize. Isn't "Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone" a Biblical perspective?

Let's read the rest of that passage:

John 8

8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

11"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

So is sex outside of a man/woman marriage sinful? I believe the Bible is clear that it is. You seem to insinuate so also.

While sin is sin, I believe the Bible does emphasize sexual sins-not just homosexual acts, but ALL acts outside of man/woman marriage.

 

[Chuck S]

Here's what Paul says concerning judgement:

1 Corinthians 5


12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

If you are a believer, it is my duty to make you aware of your sin and vice versa.

James 5

. 19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

Again, those are PAUL'S opinions. Not direct quotes from Christ.

"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

So is sex outside of a man/woman marriage sinful? I believe the Bible is clear that it is. You seem to insinuate so also.

While sin is sin, I believe the Bible does emphasize sexual sins-not just homosexual acts, but ALL acts outside of man/woman marriage.

"Then neither do I condemn you..." sounds like HE isn't being critical and judgemental, does it? Christ forgave this woman, when the crowd would have stoned her. Would stoning this woman to death have done this woman any good? Would it have brought her closer to Christ? Of course not. If the goal of the conservative Christian is to bring someone closer to Christ, condemning and criticizing them is a strange way to achieve that goal. Certainly not the example Christ set for them to follow. Again, His example is "Don't Judge Each Other, but rather Respect Each Other and Be Nice to Each Other". You have to wonder how Paul could think that casting someone out of the church is a Christ-like thing to do. He even says "God will judge those outside" Funny, he takes upon himself, a mere mortal, to judge those inside the church. Not a "humble" follower of Christ's, was he?

 

[sodaseller]

Here's what Paul says concerning judgement:

Do you worship Paul?

 

[2funny2c]

One person could have multiple accounts, multiple windows open, and submit multiple posts within the same minute.

And 2 people could ACTUALLY share similiar viewpoint instead of 1. Is JimmieJ Hokie or I also?

You and Rick could be the same person with that logic. Or you could be the same person that shares the same veiwpoint you do.

Stop trying to attack the poster and making baseless accusations. Have you any proof beyond Hokie and I have similiar beliefs?

Just another case of YABP from you.

I just think that you are mad because the church that you so frequently are crticial of filled with all those hypocrites is reaching out to address AIDS/HIV. You put on a happy face about it but it tears you apart on the inside.

Yet Another Bitter Post

Get some joy in your life man.

 

[hokiefan33]

Point 1. Ok. so you're a sinner.

Point 2. Interesting. So you really don't believe that religion should teach one another to be nice to one another. How sad.

Point 1 - you're right, I am a sinner, everyday of my life. I have been saved through God's grace, however, not by anything I did, but by believing in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross to pay the debt for my sins.

Point 2 - Chuck's clear point was that religion is all about "being nice" and "not judging." His first point is great. Should we all be nice? Sure, why not. His second point comes from a misunderstanding of Scripture, and there's no way to argue it with him or anyone else with a similar misunderstanding, b/c most people miss the context of the verses they reference. However, while these are characteristics of Christianity, they certainly are not the cornerstones.

 

[hokiefan33]

Again, please show me in the Bble where it says that one sin is greater than any other, I'll be happy to show you where the Bible also contradicts that. And show me where it says that churches should decide which sins they publicaly criticize. Isn't "Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone" a Biblical perspective?

Please show me where I said that one sin WAS greater than another?? I never said that, I don't know why you keep harping on it. The Bible doesn't say that.

Show me where the Bible directly says that it is wrong to shoot heroin into your veins. That's right, it doesn't directly say it. Does that then mean that it is OK to shoot heroin into your veins? That's the kind of argument you're using, and it doesn't work.

 

[hokiefan33]

A lot of twisting of words on this thread. Interesting read though...

Oh and on page one I see Hokie and 2Funny posted at the same time. I guess they ARE 2 separate people.

Gee, there's a newsflash for you...

 

[hokiefan33]

One person could have multiple accounts, multiple windows open, and submit multiple posts within the same minute.

But some will never believe...

 

[jimmiej]

Again, those are PAUL'S opinions. Not direct quotes from Christ.

2 Timothy 3:15-17*

16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Like most Christians, I believe ALL the New Testament was inspired by God. Other were inspired of God to write the gospels. Paul was inspired to write to the church.

You didn't answer my question. Is sex out of man/woman marriage a sin? In your opinion? Did Christ think the woman's actions were sinful? I'm awaiting your answer.

Do I worship Paul? No. Neither do I worship Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, etc. But, I do believe they were inspired of God to write Holy Scripture. As a Christian, I am required to study and apply scripture.

If you are not a believer, this does not apply to you. Paul wrote to the church.

Since you believe only the words of Christ, do you believe this:

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

 

[hokiefan33]

[/b]

Again, those are PAUL'S opinions. Not direct quotes from Christ.

Well, gee, the whole shellfish argument you wanted to use before - those weren't directly quoted by Christ either, yet you used them to try and make your point. Which way do you want it? Either they're valid b/c they're in the Bible, meaning Paul's are just as valid as Christ's direct quotes, or they're not, which means throw out all but the Gospels, the first couple chapters of Acts, and a few verses in Revelation. Which is it?

"Then neither do I condemn you..." sounds like HE isn't being critical and judgemental, does it? Christ forgave this woman, when the crowd would have stoned her. Would stoning this woman to death have done this woman any good? Would it have brought her closer to Christ? Of course not. If the goal of the conservative Christian is to bring someone closer to Christ, condemning and criticizing them is a strange way to achieve that goal. Certainly not the example Christ set for them to follow. Again, His example is "Don't Judge Each Other, but rather Respect Each Other and Be Nice to Each Other". You have to wonder how Paul could think that casting someone out of the church is a Christ-like thing to do. He even says "God will judge those outside" Funny, he takes upon himself, a mere mortal, to judge those inside the church. Not a "humble" follower of Christ's, was he?

There can be no arguing with you on this, b/c you are looking at it from a personal view, rather than a Biblical view. If you want to have a Biblical argument, you have to use a Biblical view, which you're not.

 

[cardaway]

But some will never believe...

Lots of responses but no denials. Interesting.

 

[RickinNYC]

And 2 people could ACTUALLY share similiar viewpoint instead of 1. Is JimmieJ Hokie or I also?

You and Rick could be the same person with that logic. Or you could be the same person that shares the same veiwpoint you do.

I don't mind being compared to or perhaps even being suspected of being Chuck. He's a good guy and has a good head on his shoulders. Plus, he offers respect for respect.

Not sure why you would get so upset for having been suspected of being Hokiefan? If you both have such similar belief systems, then what's the big deal?

If I were Hokie, I'd be offended that you were so upset over it.

 

[scubamouse]

FWIW - there are scholars that believe that Paul was a self-loathing closted homosexual. Clearly no one can prove that one way or another but if you look at how is writing evolves over time, you can see a pattern where he becomes more self loving over time.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/142/story_14299_1.html

jimmiej - can i ask what version of the Bible those passages are from? It doesn't read like its the King James version.

 

[RickinNYC]

There can be no arguing with you on this, b/c you are looking at it from a personal view, rather than a Biblical view. If you want to have a Biblical argument, you have to use a Biblical view, which you're not.

Whenever anyone has ever quoted anything from the Bible to you in response to your own attempts, you use the exact same argument. Clearly you think everyone must use not just the Biblical view, but YOUR view. Nothing you can say can make the vast majority think otherwise.

To that end, since we're talking about your crediblity when speaking about sin and Christianity, you lost any credence when you called gay men "p-- pushers" some time ago. Don't think many of us forgot that at all.

Your strong faith in God and Jesus is nothing but admirable to me. But the manner in which you deliver your message, filled with such vitriol and judgement, turns more people away than bringing them in. If that is your intent, then job well done.