Children's Hospital saying no to new hires who smoke

If we really wanted to get into things on here about hiring requirements, I'm not in healthcare, but are ALL employees who work at children's hospitals and such required to have the same clearances done that teachers need to have? If no... why not? Kids are kids, why should it be any different?
 
No, BMI takes bone size into account. Fat is fat, obese is obese.

That is not accurate. Think about extremely fit weight lifters that don't have an ounce of fat on them, yet they would be considered obese per their BMI. It's not black and white when it comes to BMI.
 
Bingo.

It's interesting though to see those who take offense to this and then try and throw something else under the bus. In Education (K-12) you can't smoke on school grounds, why should a children's hospital be any different?

I agree as far as actual smokers. But, I do feel a person wearing a patch or chewing Nicorette gum should not be penalized.
 
That is not accurate. Think about extremely fit weight lifters that don't have an ounce of fat on them, yet they would be considered obese per their BMI. It's not black and white when it comes to BMI.
Just as a blood test that shows nicotine doesn't mean that a person smokes! :) It's a slippery slope
 

I'm not sure if you understand the article. It's not about smoking at the hospital. The hospital wants to control what people do on their own time.

I hope the ACLU steps in. I've never smoked a day in my life and something like this sounds terrible to me. As long as smoking is legal, how dare any company decide that they may factor it into hiring decisions? What's next? You don't want to hire me because I'm over 40? How about the fact that I eat junk food or barely ever work out? All of these things have the potential for me incurring higher health care costs.

The thing is there is no 3rd hand effects from junk food eating. Where as there is with smoking.
 
Is this a good idea? Or is this employee discrimination. I persoally love this. I hate going to Dr office and nurses or even Dr smelling of smoke.

Arkansas Children's Hospital in Little Rock has a new message for potential employees: Smokers need not apply.

Arkansas Children's Hospital is joining the growing number of medical facilities and businesses in Arkansas and across the nation that are implementing more stringent policies on smoking.

Starting May 1, when its new Tobacco and Nicotine-Free Campus policy goes into effect, the hospital will no longer hire smokers, an email from Andree Trosclair, vice president of human resources, to employees said Monday.

Children's Hospital's new policy is just part of its step toward promoting good health among its employees, Jennifer Holland, director of occupational health for the hospital, said in an interview. She added that the decision is not related to the hospital's health insurance plan for employees.

She did say, however: "We continue to see medical plans [costs] go up every year, which suggests that we're not necessarily getting healthier. Smoking is one of those things we can control."

Holland added that smoking "is not something we want to expose our patients to."

The new policy prohibits all nicotine use: cigarettes, smokeless tobacco, e-cigarettes, and nicotine patches and gum.

Tobacco use is already prohibited on the hospital's campus, but as of May 1, new hires will be required to submit to urine tests for nicotine -- just as they would for illegal drug use -- and their employment is contingent on passing those tests.

If prospective employees fail the nicotine tests, they will be allowed to reapply for a position after 90 days, Holland said.

For current employees, nicotine will be added to the drug-screening program that Children's Hospital already has in place, but positive readings for nicotine will not affect those employees' employment. Instead, the hospital will reach out to them from "an education perspective," Holland said.

The number of smokers among the roughly 4,000 employees at the hospital ranges between 8 percent and 12 percent, she said.

In Arkansas, about 27 percent of adults were cigarette smokers in 2011, and 7 percent used smokeless tobacco, according to the most recent numbers provided by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta.

The policy change from smoke-free to smoker-free workplaces has become increasingly common, especially at health-care institutions. While there are no exact numbers for tracking the changes, those who follow the shift say there's been a dramatic increase in smoker-ban policies in the past five years or so.

There are two main reasons that hospitals and other companies give for banning smokers, said Michael Siegel, professor of community health sciences at Boston University's School of Public Health, who has studied the trend.

One is that it saves the company money because there are higher health-care costs associated with employees who smoke. The second is that the company is "trying to set a good example" for the community.

Siegel, who opposes such polices, is skeptical of both of those reasons.

"I think there's something more going on than just these health- or economic-related motives," he said. "Clearly this is employee discrimination because these decisions are being made on someone being a smoker, not their qualifications."

Siegel added, "Somehow this feeling that hospitals have to set a good example for health -- I think they're misguided. I think that they are forgetting that failing to hire people doesn't set a good example. What sets a good example is ... providing excellent health and wellness programs to employees."

The Cleveland Clinic in Ohio became one of the first hospitals to implement a policy banning smokers in 2007.

"It was part of an ongoing wellness program for Cleveland Clinic employees," said Paul Terpeluk, medical director of employee health at the clinic. "We just felt that smoking was something we didn't want in our new hires.

"Cigarette smoking and tobacco use is considered very unhealthy," he said, adding that employees who work at health-care facilities are supposed "to be healthy people, so it just makes sense that it would happen in the health-care industry."

The policy at the Cleveland Clinic mirrors the one Arkansas Children's Hospital is adopting. The Cleveland company has hired roughly 35,000 new employees since the policy went into effect, and only about 300 people have tested positive for nicotine use, Terpeluk said.

"People got the message that if you want to work at the Cleveland Clinic, you better not smoke," he said.

There are laws in 29 states and the District of Columbia that make smokers a protected class, said Thomas Carr, director of national policy for the American Lung Association, which does not take a position on workplace policies that ban smokers.

"Basically they prevent businesses or employers from not hiring or firing smokers," he said. "Arkansas is not one of those."

Josh Sanford, managing attorney of Sanford Law Firm in Little Rock, an employment law firm, said Arkansas Children's Hospital's new policy is allowed under the law.

"It's obvious they are discriminating against smokers," he said. "However, smoking is not a protected activity. Because it's not protected, discriminating against them is not illegal."

Other hospitals in Arkansas have taken steps or are considering adopting policies on nicotine-free workforces.

Baptist Health Medical Center began hiring nicotine-free employees in January 2013. Job applicants are screened and, if flagged, are not hired. They then face a six-month waiting period before they can again be considered for employment there.

Spokesman Mark Lowan said current employees are not tested, and those who smoke have the option of participating in cessation programs. Nicotine patches or nicotine-gum use are not prohibited.

Baptist has not had a problem filling positions as a result of the policy, he said.

Unity Health, formerly White County Medical Center of Searcy, also has tobacco- and nicotine-free guidelines. According to the company website, "a mandatory drug screen is administered as a part of the health assessment, after the job offer. A positive drug screen will result in the job offer being withdrawn."

CHI St. Vincent is assessing the possibility of nicotine-free campuses and employees, said Tim Osterholm, senior vice president of human resources. Health-care costs and public interaction are among the factors being considered.

"We'll be strongly considering moving that way, but we don't have a specific timeline," Osterholm said. "It's something that has been done other places for a number of years. When you're looking at the wellness of co-workers, those taking care of patients, being nicotine-free is important to consider, and something a lot of folks will be looking at."

Holland, at Children's Hospital, said many employees are asking about how the new policy will affect them and also about participating in the nicotine-cessation program that the hospital offers.

"Which has been good," she said. "It's starting that conversation."

Holland said use of tobacco and nicotine -- just like obesity and stress -- affect employees' ability to work. Also, given their profession, the hospital does not want to expose patients to "third-hand" nicotine residue, she said.

"As health-care workers we know the risk of nicotine and what it actually does to you," she said. The new policy "makes logical sense in that perspective," she said.

The hospital I work for did this 5 yrs ago, this is nothing new. All new employees must take a test @ the hospital to confirm this prior to any employment.
 
The thing is there is no 3rd hand effects from junk food eating. Where as there is with smoking.

It's still legal behavior. How can a company discriminate against people who are engaging in a legal behavior on their own time?

If smoking is so bad to everyone else, then make the case that it should be illegal. As long as it's legal though, no one should have the right to discriminate based on engagement in that behavior.

BTW, I HATE the smell of cigarette smoke and detest it when people smoke around me. HATE IT. But just because I hate it, doesn't mean I think it's okay to discriminate against people who engage in a legal action.
 
I'm not sure if you understand the article. It's not about smoking at the hospital. The hospital wants to control what people do on their own time.

I hope the ACLU steps in. I've never smoked a day in my life and something like this sounds terrible to me. As long as smoking is legal, how dare any company decide that they may factor it into hiring decisions? What's next? You don't want to hire me because I'm over 40? How about the fact that I eat junk food or barely ever work out? All of these things have the potential for me incurring higher health care costs.

http://www.hrmorning.com/ban-hiring-smokers/

It's legal in these states for companies to not hire people that smoke...
 
It seems like a lot of people are missing that this is looking to ban nicotine and not just smoking.

There are no third hand effects or even second hand effects to nicotine gum or patches.

In this case, it's exactly like junk food.
 
It seems like a lot of people are missing that this is looking to ban nicotine and not just smoking.

There are no third hand effects or even second hand effects to nicotine gum or patches.

In this case, it's exactly like junk food.

It's not the second hand smoke that is the issue, nicotine users cost companies more money, period. They are the most expensive class to insure for health, life and disability insurance, they take more breaks during the day so are overall less productive, and are sick more often. Not to mention that since the company in question is a hospital, it's a bad example if your employees smoke and you are telling patients not to smoke.
 
I detest smoking and feel strongly about not having it in public places. DH just hired a tobacco user on our sales team. He's phenomenal at sales and well known and respected in our industry. As much as I hate the thought of hiring a tobacco user, I am in business to make money so have to set aside my personal bias.

If we were in the health care industry and it wouldn't affect our profit margin or pool of job applicants, I see nothing wrong with this hiring policy. If you want the job, quit smoking or find another employer. Seems like a simple choice to me.
 
I would love to see them say, if your more then 30lbs over weight dont apply. Let the hating begin. :rolleyes:
 
Not to mention that since the company in question is a hospital, it's a bad example if your employees smoke and you are telling patients not to smoke.

Well, again, it's also a bad example to be fat and eat junk food and tell your patients to have healthy habits. So, you seem to be saying that any unhealthy habit on the part of a health professional should be open to the same ban.

Plus, how are all these patients going to know what their health professionals do in their personal lives? What if they change their clothes right after they smoke in the morning before coming in to work? Not everyone who smokes walks around smelling bad.
 
Yes smoking is the devil, but obesity actually cost more and will kill you faster. 5 second on google and tons of articles, dont put your head in the sand children hospital obesity is worst then smoking.

http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB4549.html

http://www.thegabrielmethod.com/obesity-vs-smoking-which-is-more-dangerous

And in terms of money spent, obesity actually exceeds smoking in yearly medical care costs with 147 billion spent on the former and 97 billion on the latter

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-sty...cuts-lifespan-smoking-study-article-1.1860666
 
Well, again, it's also a bad example to be fat and eat junk food and tell your patients to have healthy habits. So, you seem to be saying that any unhealthy habit on the part of a health professional should be open to the same ban.

Plus, how are all these patients going to know what their health professionals do in their personal lives? What if they change their clothes right after they smoke in the morning before coming in to work? Not everyone who smokes walks around smelling bad.

There doesn't need to be any sort of justification on the part of Children's hospital. It's not discrimination and it can be as simple as saying our belief is that smoking is bad for your health and we chose to only hire nicotine free employees. Period. End of story. Doesn't need to be about money, patients, junk food or any other reason. And they have to follow up with a blood test because people will lie. If you don't like the policy, don't apply for the job.
 
There doesn't need to be any sort of justification on the part of Children's hospital. It's not discrimination and it can be as simple as saying our belief is that smoking is bad for your health and we chose to only hire nicotine free employees. Period. End of story. Doesn't need to be about money, patients, junk food or any other reason. And they have to follow up with a blood test because people will lie. If you don't like the policy, don't apply for the job.

As I said, in addition to these tests, do they also require FBI, Child Abuse and State Police clearances to work with kids? If not, maybe they should.
 












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