Cheerleading Try Outs...Fair?

[pixiedustaholic]

Warning- Long

When I was in HS, cheerleading tryouts were completely a popularity contest b/c students voted for the candidates. That's why I was relieved to hear that things had changed now that it was tome for my DD to try out.
First, they had to attend an informational meeting with a parent to see exactly what is expected from the cheerleaders and to explain the try out process so they would know up front what they are committing to. Next, all their teachers are sent recommendation forms to find out more about them, etc. Next, they are encouraged to attend conditioning practices so the coaches can observe thier flexibilty, stamina, attitude, etc. Finally, there are 4 afterschool sessions for try outs where they learn thier dance and cheer routines. On the final day, they perform these routines for the coaches and a couple of "judges". Then they pick the teams and we return the following day and pick up an envelope that contains the results that isn't supposed to be opened until we leave the school property...to avoid the ones who are crushed by not making it enduring the squeals of delight of the ones who do, I suppose.
At the original meeting, we were told that the girls would be assigned numbers that they would wear throughout tryouts. I was glad b/c that helps remove potential bias. Instead, they were given nametags with thier first and last names on them! I feel that this wasn't impartial and feel that some of the girls had an unfair advantage b/c of thier names(or thier parents name should I say.) Example: Head football coaches daughter, etc. Plus the "judges" were from local gyms that have been teaching some of these girls for years and of course could be biased. I'm frustrated and you can guess by now that my DD wasn't chosen although she is well qualified. I can't help wondering just how much "politics" are involved in making the team. I'm afraid to voice my concerns about the process for fear of damaging her chances next year. Then again, if I don't , the process may not change. I feel they should bring in judges that are completely impartial...maybe from a local university.
I know life is full of disappointments and DD will be even more determined next year... but I wonder if she'll really have a chance since DH and I are not big booster club donors or a member of the faculty at any of the local schools, or popular local business owners? Do you think I should say anything or let the chips fall where they may next year?

 

[Blessed99]

No advice to give, I just wanted to say I am sorry for your daughter!
I have seen the same here, its always certain kids that get to play or cheer depending on their status in the community more than their ability to play or cheer. I keep my DD out of it for that reason. She has started taking baton twirling through a private instructor. She loves it! And their are no politics!!

 

[Mouse House Mama]

If the tryouts were being judged by people from a local gym that trains some of the girls then I don't think the nametag would have made a difference. I am sure they can see the girl and remember her name.
I am sorry your dd didn't make it. It stinks when our kids are disappointed. I can't believe you have to get teacher reccomendations to try out! That is ridiculous. When I was a cheerleader you went to tryouts, learned the routine, tried out, and either made it or not. That whole setup you got there sounds crazy to me. Then again, I know that cheering is very big in the south and I see you are from SC.
At any rate, good luck and I hope she makes the team next year.

 

[kidzmom3]

It actually sounds like a very fair process. Although your daughter may be qualified by your standards, are you sure she is by the schools? There is a reason many girls do All Star Cheering or tumble at a private gym prior to high school cheer. It's because most teams that are competitive need their cheerleaders to have standing and running tumbling. At our school, if you cannot do a standing and running back hand spring you will not make any of the teams (even freshman). And really, you need a back tuck. If you don't have the tuck but are awesome at everything else, they might take you.

I am not trying to be mean. I just think that except for your assumption that other girls received preferential treatment; the only thing they did, that they did not state at the parent meeting, was names instead of numbers.

 

[kidzmom3]

just wanted to add, I am sorry your daughter was disappointed. it can be very hard to want something so badly and not get it.

 

[Stacerita]

Do you know if the school is in competitive cheer? Meaning do they go to regional comps and such? If so, there will more than likely be no "politics" involved. They will want the best of the best. I spent over half my life involved with cheer. In pop warner and rec cheer, yes, lots of politics go on. But that is what happens. As you get into higher levels of cheer, its less about politics and more about ability. I cheer in rec, pop warner, high school, and college. Plus I coached and was involved in judging. Both for try outs and comps.

I have seen some tryouts where the actual performance is only a percentage of your final score. Some schools have written exams, grades, and participation as part of the try out process. Was any of those involved?

Sorry your DD was disappointed. I would encourage her to keep working at it though.

 

[pixiedustaholic]

It actually sounds like a very fair process. Although your daughter may be qualified by your standards, are you sure she is by the schools? There is a reason many girls do All Star Cheering or tumble at a private gym prior to high school cheer. It's because most teams that are competitive need their cheerleaders to have standing and running tumbling. At our school, if you cannot do a standing and running back hand spring you will not make any of the teams (even freshman). And really, you need a back tuck. If you don't have the tuck but are awesome at everything else, they might take you.

I am not trying to be mean. I just think that except for your assumption that other girls received preferential treatment; the only thing they did, that they did not state at the parent meeting, was names instead of numbers.

My DD DOES take tumbling at a local gym and yes, they have a competitive team but they were trying out for the spirit squad (the ones who cheer at games, pep rallies, etc.) and the competitive team. You have to be on the spirit team in order to be on the competition team which my DD isn't really interested in.

Yes, indeed, she is certainly qualified by all they standards they laid out. I do believe the tryouts were not impartial. You can't tell me that Coach X's daughter falls doing backhandspring and my DD doesn't and they choose Coach X's DD and not mine that that is not biased.

I'm not debating DD's qualifications, just whether I should broach the subject that the process is flawed.

 

[tink_n_pooh]

What happened to the cheer coach just being the one that picked the squad? Not everyone makes it, life isn't fair but it's ok.

 

[RN4Babies]

My DD DOES take tumbling at a local gym and yes, they have a competitive team but they were trying out for the spirit squad (the ones who cheer at games, pep rallies, etc.) and the competitive team. You have to be on the spirit team in order to be on the competition team which my DD isn't really interested in.

Yes, indeed, she is certainly qualified by all they standards they laid out. I do believe the tryouts were not impartial. You can't tell me that Coach X's daughter falls doing backhandspring and my DD doesn't and they choose Coach X's DD and not mine that that is not biased.

I'm not debating DD's qualifications, just whether I should broach the subject that the process is flawed.

IMO, if you broach the subject that the process is flawed, you would predetermine your dd's fate and she'll never be on the team.

 

[ilovefh]

I don't think at a high school having names on the name tags instead of numbers makes any difference. I'm sure that even without the name tag the coach knows who is the football coach's daughter and the local gym coaches know who they have coached in the past.

As a coach I can say maybe there was something else that coach's DD did better than your daughter?

I wouldn't say anything, but that is because I have been on the opposite end. I was the coach receiving the complaint. This was basketball and thankfully we kept stats on the girls because the reality was that even though the mom was "sure" her daughter was the best she wasn't and hadn't made a many shots the whole try out.

Sometimes as parents it is hard not to have a biased opinion, but I can say as a coach after a parent has complained about something it does sometimes make you look at the child differently. ( We have some overbearing parents around here)
One mom complained in field hockey once because I told her daughter she needed to keep her stick down in the circle because if she didn't the ball would go right under it and possibly score. Well it happened one time and I told her "This is why I am always saying to keep you stick down" The mother thought I should only offer positive feedback. Was I sad when the girl didn't try out the next year...no.

I am the JV coach and this year DH's uncle died and I had to miss an away game (We have 4 coach's). JV plays after varsity and the assistant varsity coach (who normally worked with me) took over for me so I could go to the funeral and the Varsity coach could go and meet with the Varsity team. Well, a few parents complained that the varsity coach didn't coach the JV team. They swear there was no one there to coach them (they weren't there remember). They were angry that the Varsity coach leaves the sideline after every Varsity game to meet with her team about the game while JV starts. Is all this complaining a little ridiculous? Yes. And do I look at the kid who I know is instigating it differently. Sure. I don't want to have to have anymore meetings with the parents and the AD. Even though we know we did nothing wrong and the AD backs us, it is stressful.

So again, from what you have explained it doesn't sound like having numbers instead of names would make a difference.

 

[rgf207]

I'm sorry that your DD didn't make it. Sometimes things aren't fair and unfortunatly there is nothing you can do about it. Chalk this up as a life lesson and make sure your DD continues to try out and not give up.

 

[luvdzne]

Sadly yes, sometimes squads are picked on who knows who basis. This happened to my dd also. Unfortunately that happens a lot in life. No it's not fair, but really what can you do? DD was a lot better than some of the girls that did make it. She wants to try out again for next year, I'm afraid the same thing will happen again. I commend her for wanting to go through that again and will back her up, but I told her she will have to try extra hard this time.

OP sorry your dd didn't make it. I know it stinks, and it is hard to see our kids hurt when they don't make it. It was really hard to watch as the kids that made it come out all excited and the ones that didn't come out crying.

 

[saratogadreamin09]

Take it from a 14 year old, every sports team in high school is like that

My school doesnt do cuts but the coaches pick favorites. It is so obvious that some girls play a lot more then others and its because of there parents. The girls that are always playing are the girls with parents that volunteer and donate money to the school. They also are the "legacies", the kids that always play had older siblings go to the school and play sports so the coahces assume they're good because there siblings are good.


Its so annoying and I can realte to your daughter 100%

 

[goofy!]

they were trying out for the spirit squad (the ones who cheer at games, pep rallies, etc.) and the competitive team. You have to be on the spirit team in order to be on the competition team which my DD isn't really interested in.

I am a bit confused here. You said the tryouts were for both the Spirit Squad and the Competitive team. Is it common to only try out for the spirit squad and not the competitive team? Are there many athletes that are only on the Spirit Team and do not compete? Or are most of the Spirit Squad members also kids that are on the Competitive Team.

Now, I may be totally off base here and have misinformation as my kids only do Allstar so not familiar with High School competitive rules, but in talking with a friend one time and comparing the difference between Allstar and HS, she said that to cheer competitively in High School, the rules state that they have to cheer at x amount of school games (where as in allstar, you don't cheer for a team, you are the team).

So, IF this is true, I would understand that it would be important to fill the Spirit Squad with the competitive cheerleaders so that they could fulfill the requirements of cheering at games. It would not make sense to award the limited spaces on the Spirit Squad to students not interested in competitive. It would be kind of akin to having a kid try out for the football practice squad and tell the coaches he was not interested in playing in any of the games.

Don't know if that is how it works in your school, but could it have been a factor in the judges's decision that even though the tryouts were for both teams, your daughter made it known that she was not interested in the competitive team? If your school's main focus is the competitive team, I would venture to guess that this was a huge deciding factor.

If it is common to only tryout for the spirit squad when the tryouts are for both squads, then disregard everything I asked

I am sorry your daughter was disappointed.

But for what little you described the process, it seemed like a pretty fair process. Teachers had to write recommendations. you had several judges, so it was a combined score from all of them. That cuts down on the favoritism factor. And as somebody else said, the competitive girls would have been recognized, name tag or not.

Cheer, even high school, is nothing like it was when I was in high school. It is a highly athletic sport that usually requires lots of previous training, not only in tumbling, but in movements and stunting. It is no longer waving pompoms, yelling a cheer and doing a few jumps.

I know you said your daughter has had training in a gym. Is this just gymnastics or is it a cheer gym?

If it was just gymnastics (ie: tumbling) then I would recommend seeking out an allstar gym for this season. It may be difficult as many gyms have already had their tryouts for next season, but if your daughter has her heart set on making her HS squad next year, I would try to find one and get some cheer experience under her belt. And FWIW, many allstar gyms hold the tryouts to see what level team the cheerleader needs to be on, not to weed them out. At least in the gyms around here, everybody makes a team, it just depends on which team. So, while tumbling is ever so important, there are many other skills that are equally important. Many gyms also offer privates and classes that are open to all, not only their cheerleaders.

So, if she hasn't specific cheer training, then focus on working on that this year. Then next year, she can go in well prepared with much better chances!

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

DD's high school tryouts were judged by a couple of cheer coaches from the local university. Everyone was assigned a number. They had practice for three days and then tryouts in groups of three on Saturday morning. I felt it was unbiased. No one was allowed in the gym other than the girls who were trying out at the time, and the judges. Now, what I do like about your tryouts are the part about sealing the individual results in an envelope and not being allowed to open them until they left school property. This is a great idea.
In our schools case, you had to wait on a phone call, which may or may not come. You were given no specific time. OMG, that was torture not knowing and wondering. I had listed my cell number first on the application and DD had listed hers second. So I took my cell everywhere with me that Monday. No call, but no one else seemed to be getting a call either. Finally, at 10 pm that night, Haley got the call on her phone. She was so excited! And then got on My Space to see who else made it. The night was spent figuring out the 9 others who made it. Haley's BFF also tried out but was never called. She was devastated and this really upset Haley. But no one could ever figure out who the 10th girl was. About 3 days later, her BFF finally got the call. Turns out in her nervousness, she had listed her cell number wrong on the form. So it all turned out all right in the end.
Fast fwd to THIS YEAR. Tryouts haven't even been announced yet. But I have TWO DAUGHTERS competing for one of 10 spots. I will be a nervous wreck this year. I'm sick just thinking about it. About 2 years ago, they both tried out for the middle school squad and one made it and one didn't. That was SO hard to deal with. I do not want to go through that again, but the odds are against me that it won't happen again.

 

[ilovefh]

I am a bit confused here. You said the tryouts were for both the Spirit Squad and the Competitive team. Is it common to only try out for the spirit squad and not the competitive team? Are there many athletes that are only on the Spirit Team and do not compete? Or are most of the Spirit Squad members also kids that are on the Competitive Team.

Now, I may be totally off base here and have misinformation as my kids only do Allstar so not familiar with High School competitive rules, but in talking with a friend one time and comparing the difference between Allstar and HS, she said that to cheer competitively in High School, the rules state that they have to cheer at x amount of school games (where as in allstar, you don't cheer for a team, you are the team).

So, IF this is true, I would understand that it would be important to fill the Spirit Squad with the competitive cheerleaders so that they could fulfill the requirements of cheering at games. It would not make sense to award the limited spaces on the Spirit Squad to students not interested in competitive. It would be kind of akin to having a kid try out for the football practice squad and tell the coaches he was not interested in playing in any of the games.

Don't know if that is how it works in your school, but could it have been a factor in the judges's decision that even though the tryouts were for both teams, your daughter made it known that she was not interested in the competitive team? If your school's main focus is the competitive team, I would venture to guess that this was a huge deciding factor.

I am sorry your daughter was disappointed.

But for what little you described the process, it seemed like a pretty fair process. Teachers had to write recommendations. you had several judges, so it was a combined score from all of them. That cuts down on the favoritism factor. And as somebody else said, the competitive girls would have been recognized, name tag or not.

Cheer, even high school, is nothing like it was when I was in high school. It is a highly athletic sport that usually requires lots of previous training, not only in tumbling, but in movements and stunting. It is no longer waving pompoms, yelling a cheer and doing a few jumps.

I know you said your daughter has had training in a gym. Is this just gymnastics or is it a cheer gym?

If it was just gymnastics (ie: tumbling) then I would recommend seeking out an allstar gym for this season. It may be difficult as many gyms have already had their tryouts for next season, but if your daughter has her heart set on making her HS squad next year, I would try to find one and get some cheer experience under her belt. And FWIW, many allstar gyms hold the tryouts to see what level team the cheerleader needs to be on, not to weed them out. At least in the gyms around here, everybody makes a team, it just depends on which team. So, while tumbling is ever so important, there are many other skills that are equally important. Many gyms also offer privates and classes that are open to all, not only their cheerleaders.

So, if she hasn't specific cheer training, then focus on working on that this year. Then next year, she can go in well prepared with much better chances!

Agree with most of your points. But the reason for posting was OT. I clicked the link in your siggy and while it didn't work for my browser, I did search and found a video. That is just such a great team! I am pregnant and my emotions are a mess so I cried like a baby. What a great team!

 

[goofy!]

Agree with most of your points. But the reason for posting was OT. I clicked the link in your siggy and while it didn't work for my browser, I did search and found a video. That is just such a great team! I am pregnant and my emotions are a mess so I cried like a baby. What a great team!

Thanks! We are rather proud of them (DD is on that team) My niece, who is basically my second daughter (hence "my kids") is on a level 1 team at the gym. She is always amazed at how much more tumbling, stunting and difficulty in the routine that the special needs team does.

OP - Come join the cheer parent thread. We all celebrate and commiserate together!

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1826185

 

[Shelton123]

Anything that involves competition isn't fair. There is no such thing. EVERY single competition possible judges not only based on talent, but on EVERYTHING else too. Talent obviously counts for the most part, but past history and grades (if they had an average student verses an amazing A student with the same talent,the A student wins), behavior in front of the judges (if she's great, but she appears to be shy that might be her undoing), looks (it shouldn't matter, but it definitely does), and apparent stamina (panting extremely heavily afterwards, versus a girl who could probably go on forever) are probably all taken into account.

And sometimes there are just too many girls trying out, and they might have to pick randomly in the end, or school connections might get you through. I bet your DD is fantastic, and she might make it next year if she works hard! Look on the bright side: it gives her a reason to practice more and get even better than she already is.

 

[AC7179]

I know it's difficult. My daughter just tried out for officer on her dance team. She had to make the team first (she did), then that same evening she tried out for officer. She is a very good dancer, but not at quite the same level as some of the very best girls. She didn't make officer and was disappointed, but we looked at the things she should be thankful for (out of 80 plus girls, 50 made the team, and only 6 of the 50 are officer). So to be top 6 out of 80---those are some high standards to make. We talked about how you can do is try your very hardest and then let the chips fall where they may.

I've also worked as a gymnastics coach and cheer sponsor, and one thing I can say is that what you hear happened at tryouts is so very often skewed. I would get to watch tryouts, and kid A might have a tiny wobble or put her hand down on a tumbling move, and when she is done run out of the gym telling everyone she messed up SO much. Kid B might be REALLY nervous, have a shaky voice, tighter jumps than usual, and rush through her cheer, then go out to the gym and say she hit everything. Kid A gets a higher score and everyone things (based on what they heard) that it wasn't fair.

Also, going from workshop to tryouts is huge. I've picked my top 8 after clinic, and there is ALWAYS at least one suprise every single year. Somebody makes it that I was sure wouldn't, and vice versa.

I can tell you, though, that at our school we do not allow anyone from a cheer gym to judge, not the cheer sponsor. We get university cheerleaders to come in so they have no bias. I don't think it's fair for the competition coaches to judge kids that compete for their gym. They have a complete vetsted interest in the fact that it is advantageous to them for the kids they coach to make the team (CHEER at XYZ! 90% of our competition cheerleaders made the Varsity Squat at ABC High!).

Do I think that it will do you any good at this point in time to change the process? No, not at all. It's too big a battle to fight. The only think I *might* do is send a letter to the principal of the school, explaining that you are not trying to overturn this years results, etc., but that in the future, it may be more prudent to have unbiased judges. You may ask for confidentiality on the issue, explaining that you don't want it to hurt your daughters chances for the next year.

Other than that, though..............honestly I would increase the hours your daughter spent in the gym, focusing on the tumbling and jumps, and I would be sure she continued competitive cheer. If it takes a move to the popular gym to get her the politial nod, I'd consider that as well.

 

[KSchwagg86]

It actually sounds like a very fair process. Although your daughter may be qualified by your standards, are you sure she is by the schools? There is a reason many girls do All Star Cheering or tumble at a private gym prior to high school cheer. It's because most teams that are competitive need their cheerleaders to have standing and running tumbling. At our school, if you cannot do a standing and running back hand spring you will not make any of the teams (even freshman). And really, you need a back tuck. If you don't have the tuck but are awesome at everything else, they might take you.

I am not trying to be mean. I just think that except for your assumption that other girls received preferential treatment; the only thing they did, that they did not state at the parent meeting, was names instead of numbers.

I agree with this %100