Cheating: Running under anothers bib and effecting results??

[ultramickeymouse]

Sorry. For clarification, who does "both" refer to in your post above? ultramickeymouse and runtime, or the 2 hypothetical runners?

Runtime: What is your name? As you can tell in my siggie, I am Robert. Just like to know names of who I am having a great discussion with

 

[MarathonFanatic]

Okay - I was going to keep quiet - but do you REALLY think that rules only matter if the breaking of said rules effects someone's place in a race??

As I've said before, taking a medal you did not earn DOES hurt and insult those that have started and finished the race - it insults all of the hard work, effort, sweat and tears that have gone into the training and actual completion of the race, despite any hardships and injuries that they have gone through on the way.

Those that have known someone to do exactly this will back me up. From the moment we WITNESSED this happening, we all felt slighted and insulted.


I am by no means fast enough to ever place in a big race. It does not matter to me if I come in 500th or 5000th. What does matter is that those that crossed the line ahead of me - whether they are listed in the results or not - crossed the start line, completed the entirety of the course, and THEN (and only then) crossed the finish line.

 

[runtime]

Ok, from a rules point both are wrong. My point is you can't come out verbally(like person I mentioned about banditing the race) and condemn one way when they were also violating the rules. Again, those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I am bringing out their issue as well. They felt they did nothing wrong which is not true. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Both may violate rules but only one effects others as well. Violating the transfer rule and wearing the persons chip also effects the Official results by giving a person who NEVER even attempted the race an Official finish. This than effects the overall, sex, and age division permanent records. The records live on forever and medals get lost, sold, and will go away. Throwing away a medal removes any evidence of someones transgression. By effecting the results, one person gets credit for finishing the race. Another gets a medal they didn't register for as well(or maybe they gave it to the person who didn't run and thus they now have a medal from a race they didn't finish).

I just wanted people to realize that there are hidden ramifications to the whole violating the transfer policy.

Re: "I just wanted people to realize that there are hidden ramifications to the whole violating the transfer policy."

I completely agree. And, it sounds like you agree that both racers broke rules in these situations.
(There seems to be some personal sidebar argument going on here regarding these topics, but I'm ignoring that since it seems to be irrelevant to the topics being discussed.)

Given that you can see that "there are hidden ramifications to the whole violating the transfer policy", doesn't it seem naive to think that they aren't hidden ramifications to breaking the other rule as well? Maybe we haven't defined them here, but that doesn't really matter, right (defining them sounds like another topic as well)? Because no one has listed any of these ramifications doesn't mean they don't exist, and whether or not they do doesn't matter -- it's like trying to say "person X is a nicer/better rule breaker than person Y because [justification]".

That said, I think it is silly to think that there are not negative ramifications of not competing on the entire course. At the very least, it is a moral and contractual failure. Both of these speak to the integrity of the sport and thus have HUGE impact on its participants, RDs, sponsors, etc.

 

[MarathonFanatic]

Runtime: What is your name? As you can tell in my siggie, I am Robert. Just like to know names of who I am having a great discussion with

The whole point of being on a discussion board is the option of anonymity. If someone chooses not to put their name in their signature, you should respect that and not ask. If they wanted you to know, they'd tell you.

 

[runtime]

Runtime: What is your name? As you can tell in my siggie, I am Robert. Just like to know names of who I am having a great discussion with

Hello, Robert.

I am not this bold IRL, so I like to continue to hide behind the cowardly veil of the web. [wink]

I also appreciate a good debate, so thanks for playing.

 

[ultramickeymouse]

The whole point of being on a discussion board is the option of anonymity. If someone chooses not to put their name in their signature, you should respect that and not ask. If they wanted you to know, they'd tell you.

I didn't realize WISH had become a forum where we hide from each other. We should at least know everyones first name out of courtesy.

I don't know why anyone on here would want to hide

 

[ultramickeymouse]

I find it funny that the only ones continuing this discussion are newly signed up forumites who hide there names from fellow WISH'ers

 

[MarathonFanatic]

I didn't realize WISH had become a forum where we hide from each other. We should at least know everyones first name out of courtesy.

I don't know why anyone on here would want to hide

It's not a matter of hiding - it's a matter of personal preference.

I have never revealed my name on ANY discussion board I've been a part of.

 

[MarathonFanatic]

I find it funny that the only ones continuing this discussion are newly signed up forumites who hide there names from fellow WISH'ers

How do you know we haven't been readers of WISH for a long time but have never actually activated an account?

Personally, I've been a reader of the WISH boards for years. Have found the information very helpful.

 

[runtime]

I didn't realize WISH had become a forum where we hide from each other. We should at least know everyones first name out of courtesy.

I don't know why anyone on here would want to hide

I have been on way too many boards where things get personal and go south. I've found that being somewhat less of "a person" helps avoid a bit of that -- especially since I like to debate (as I'm sure many know, unfortunately, lots of people think that disagreement is the same as anger).

Admittedly, this often plays out as the debates dissolving into people calling me out on my anonymity rather than on the content of my posts.

I also didn't realize that WISH had an understood underlying purpose of being social. If I've broken some rule, I apologize.

 

[runtime]

I find it funny that the only ones continuing this discussion are newly signed up forumites who hide there names from fellow WISH'ers

Oh no. Now it seems like you might be doing what I mentioned above. I hope not.

Admittedly, this often plays out as the debates dissolving into people calling me out on my anonymity rather than on the content of my posts.

Like I said before I was directed here by a runner who knows I like this topic. Honestly, as you probably are aware as an RD, it is a pretty hot topic. I wouldn't be surprised if others joined in just to participate on this conversation.

If you know of a runner ethics forum where this type of discussion happens regularly, I'll gladly play with you there as well.

 

[ultramickeymouse]

Okay - I was going to keep quiet - but do you REALLY think that rules only matter if the breaking of said rules effects someone's place in a race??

As I've said before, taking a medal you did not earn DOES hurt and insult those that have started and finished the race - it insults all of the hard work, effort, sweat and tears that have gone into the training and actual completion of the race, despite any hardships and injuries that they have gone through on the way.

Those that have known someone to do exactly this will back me up. From the moment we WITNESSED this happening, we all felt slighted and insulted.


I am by no means fast enough to ever place in a big race. It does not matter to me if I come in 500th or 5000th. What does matter is that those that crossed the line ahead of me - whether they are listed in the results or not - crossed the start line, completed the entirety of the course, and THEN (and only then) crossed the finish line.

I thought we were talking hypothicals hiding MF.

Are you so vain that you live your life on what someone else does ? I would think you would than be upset that someone who doesn't register for the race(regardless if a bib transfer or without a bib) gets all of the same experience of the race, aid, and medal for one that you paid for?

I don't judge my races on anything other than what I do. I know people cut courses and finish races without doing them. Does it bother me, no. It is there decision and they life with that! I don't go crying and sulking that this happens. It always has and always will. Long before you ever entered a race. Why get so upset. Be happy with what YOU accomplished. Life is too short to worry about others who don't have an impact on your race!

 

[ultramickeymouse]

How do you know we haven't been readers of WISH for a long time but have never actually activated an account?

Personally, I've been a reader of the WISH boards for years. Have found the information very helpful.

I don't understand hiding if you want to be part of a discussion

Glad you have been part of this forum as a lurker for years and I could get you to post

 

[MarathonFanatic]

I thought we were talking hypothicals hiding MF.

Are you so vain that you live your life on what someone else does ? I would think you would than be upset that someone who doesn't register for the race(regardless if a bib transfer or without a bib) gets all of the same experience of the race, aid, and medal for one that you paid for?

I don't judge my races on anything other than what I do. I know people cut courses and finish races without doing them. Does it bother me, no. It is there decision and they life with that! I don't go crying and sulking that this happens. It always has and always will. Long before you ever entered a race. Why get so upset. Be happy with what YOU accomplished. Life is too short to worry about others who don't have an impact on your race!

I'm just telling you that people ARE affected by someone jumping on the course - you seem to think that no one else is affected since said person is not in the results, but that's not the case. I know so because I've witnessed it. Whether or not something is documented in results does not give a 100% guarantee that it does or does not have an impact on the other runners.

 

[ultramickeymouse]

Oh no. Now it seems like you might be doing what I mentioned above. I hope not.



Like I said before I was directed here by a runner who knows I like this topic. Honestly, as you probably are aware as an RD, it is a pretty hot topic. I wouldn't be surprised if others joined in just to participate on this conversation.

If you know of a runner ethics forum where this type of discussion happens regularly, I'll gladly play with you there as well.

Hope more of you lurkers and name hiders come out and play.

This discussion seems to have died.

As for worrying about things going south in discussions, I think people are much bolder and will say anything if they can hide. Thus people who hide their names help make this discussions go south because they have no ramifications to their actions. My opinion.

 

[ultramickeymouse]

I'm just telling you that people ARE affected by someone jumping on the course - you seem to think that no one else is affected since said person is not in the results, but that's not the case. I know so because I've witnessed it. Whether or not something is documented in results does not give a 100% guarantee that it does or does not have an impact on the other runners.

How does it effect you? Did this registered runner take aid so you didn't get any? Did they get in your way for a photo op? Did they take post race refreshments that you didn't get???

I am so confused

 

[NCDisneyMom]

First, just as an FYI...I am new to WISH, but obviously not new to the DIS. I only found this thread because it is the "lead" thread on the main DIS page for the WISH forum. So, of course, it caught my eye as I was scrolling down.

Regarding the topic on hand....

Both instances brought up here are wrong....period. However, it is possible that someone would not "realize" that giving away/accepting a bib to run in a race that they did not personally register for is wrong. I am relatively new to the running community and, if someone had offered me their bib a year ago, I probably would have just taken it without thinking twice. Still wrong, yes. But, I guess you can blame it on ignorance in some instances. Is this usually what happens? Most likely not, as most people are not going to be running races without some kind of knowledge of it. But, it could happen.

With that said, anyone with any morals, in my opinion, would know that not running the entire race and taking the reward at the end is not right. Does it affect my race? My finish? No. But would it upset me if I saw someone do it? Darn right it would! Why should someone else get the same reward for finishing, when they don't legitimately finish? Should a child get an A in science, for only doing half the work, when the rest of the class had to do all of it?

 

[MarathonFanatic]

Should a child get an A in science, for only doing half the work, when the rest of the class had to do all of it?

Great comparison!!!

 

[RogerM213]

I am not hiding and personally Robert I think it is sad that you continue to stir the pot. I guess when you seek attention it does not matter if it is positive or negative as long as you are getting it.

That said I will move on as nothing you have to say regarding rules of any kind holds weight with me.

Sorry WISH forumites for this post. But I stand on my own integrity in making it. Something I can do proudly and without reservation!!

 

[MarathonFanatic]

How does it effect you? Did this registered runner take aid so you didn't get any? Did they get in your way for a photo op? Did they take post race refreshments that you didn't get???

I am so confused

Apparently, you have never been affected by anything anyone has ever said or done.

It's a matter of pride and accomplishment. It's insulting for someone to step onto the course and take a FINSHER'S REWARD but not put the effort into it. The rest of the runners worked hard and fought through - even when it was painful and difficult. To see someone else take the same reward without putting in the effort, as I have said now multiple times, is insulting.