Cheating in high school sports

[golfgal]

It has come to our team's attention that another team in our conference has adopted the practice to CHEAT. This is for high school girls golf. I know this has been going on with a few teams for several years but this other team is "new" to the practice. Our JV squad first noticed that the girls from this team was shaving strokes and they would start calling the on it. It got to the point that one girl from the other team finally just said "why don't you just tell me what I had and I will mark that down". How sad is that? In the varsity tournament on Friday one of DD's teammates had to "correct" the score of the girl she was playing with on 6 holes . My DD played in some summer tournaments with this girl and we have wondered how she all of the sudden is posting these REALLY low scores--well shave 6 strokes off and that explains it.

I golf, I realize that ON OCCASION you MIGHT miscount but that would be maybe once in every 10 rounds, MAYBE.

Our girl's coach has told our team that they need to keep track of the scores for this other team now. They have started making the girls count back all their strokes on every hole. Our coach doesn't want to come out and accuse them of doing this on purpose but they have mysteriously moved from an average team to the top team in our conference. We are second behind them so if we do do something it looks like "sour grapes". The proverbial rock and hard place.

Our girls get along with these other girls really well (we are actually in the same school district as this other high school) so it is causing some problems there. The girls from this other school have started to complain about our kids but when they catch them 6 times "making a mistake" what can you do.

Golf has always been a game of honor and honesty. It's so sad.

 

[luvsJack]

Its sad when a coach from any sport encourages their kids to do thing that are cheating or are even just a hair below good sportsmanship. We have had the sportsmanship issue in softball (girl's thinking they are playing football and plowing into our girls as they are running the bases--NOT in the base line) and in baseball, coaches that would not play all their required players--same coach did it twice in the state tournament!


Can't your coach make a complaint against the other coach?

 

[golfgal]

Its sad when a coach from any sport encourages their kids to do thing that are cheating or are even just a hair below good sportsmanship. We have had the sportsmanship issue in softball (girl's thinking they are playing football and plowing into our girls as they are running the bases--NOT in the base line) and in baseball, coaches that would not play all their required players--same coach did it twice in the state tournament!


Can't your coach make a complaint against the other coach?

He is trying to decide how to handle this. Our conference tournament next week and I think if there are issues there, he will do something. I am not sure what the process is for that. They are also in our region so if this continues it could mean them blocking another team from making the state tournament. I know last year a girl on another team, from another conference got caught cheating and they had to forfeit all the matches she played in (which was all of them). It is amazing how much higher their scores were on Friday when our girls were tracking them though . It was the first tournament they lost all year (they took 3rd).

 

[disneyfan007]

I think keeping the count is a good idea. Has the coach taken it to the athlectic director of the school? I think I would do that also.

 

[MushyMushy]

Wow, I never knew that teams kept track of their own scores in golf! Is that just at the high school level or the professional level too? Sorry if that's a dumb question, but I don't know anything about it.

What a shame. These girls shouldn't be put in a position of having to watch the other teams like that in the first place.

 

[golfgal]

I think keeping the count is a good idea. Has the coach taken it to the athlectic director of the school? I think I would do that also.

I think that will be the first step. This has all come to light in the past week so I don't know exactly what will happen.

Wow, I never knew that teams kept track of their own scores in golf! Is that just at the high school level or the professional level too? Sorry if that's a dumb question, but I don't know anything about it.

What a shame. These girls shouldn't be put in a position of having to watch the other teams like that in the first place.

The girls typically play in a group of 4, all from different schools. They all keep a score card and compare scores at the end of each hole and the end of each round. Once they agree that the scores are all correct, they all sign the card. Usually you can trust the girls to keep track of their correct score. Now our girls are keeping their own score (in their heads) and the score of the girls from this other school so at the end of the hole if the other school's score doesn't seem right they ask that girl to count through their shots to double check accuracy.

 

[agnes!]

I'm surprised no one has whipped out their cell-phone or digital camera or flip-camera to take pictures of this other team's members as they hit their golfballs and to record these smokin'-hot scores...in the interest of studying how they've improved so much.

I'm just sayin' ...
agnes!

 

[OhMari]

I was actually one of the first girls on the 'boys' golf team. We had to pair up with someone from the other team, and then golf in teams of 4. This was the point, you watched them and they watched you. You had to announce your strokes and putts.
I think your dd's coach, needs to go over the rule book with his team, and explain, it is a game of honor and honesty, yet, it is their right to call their partner on the strokes.

 

[ZuZugal]

Of all sports, golf is most known for honesty and integrity. What a sad situation for your daughter's team to be in - to be forced to call the other team on scoring instead of the coach of the other team stepping up and doing the right thing.

My DD14 played on the varsity team as a freshman last year, and at that age it is still tough enough to keep your own score in your head till the end of each hole much less that of someone on the other team. (they play in foursomes, and trade their scorecard "to the right" so each girl keeps their own score and that of one other in the foursome.) Slow play, hitting in the water, OB; these all make it tough to remember.

We have come across a few girls who cheat, but never a whole team. Good luck to your daughter and her team. At least they can sleep well at night.

 

[golfgal]

I'm surprised no one has whipped out their cell-phone or digital camera or flip-camera to take pictures of this other team's members as they hit their golfballs and to record these smokin'-hot scores...in the interest of studying how they've improved so much.

I'm just sayin' ...
agnes!

Use of electronic devices on the course is also prohibited.

I was actually one of the first girls on the 'boys' golf team. We had to pair up with someone from the other team, and then golf in teams of 4. This was the point, you watched them and they watched you. You had to announce your strokes and putts.
I think your dd's coach, needs to go over the rule book with his team, and explain, it is a game of honor and honesty, yet, it is their right to call their partner on the strokes.

OUR team is fine and they have the rules drummed into their heads (in a good way). The common phrase on the course is "oh, you are from _______, you know the rules, what do you do?" It is ANOTHER team that we play that does this. Our kids know they are to call others on strokes and usually it only comes up when someone miscounted a lost ball or something like that, not on a regular basis.

Of all sports, golf is most known for honesty and integrity. What a sad situation for your daughter's team to be in - to be forced to call the other team on scoring instead of the coach of the other team stepping up and doing the right thing.

My DD14 played on the varsity team as a freshman last year, and at that age it is still tough enough to keep your own score in your head till the end of each hole much less that of someone on the other team. (they play in foursomes, and trade their scorecard "to the right" so each girl keeps their own score and that of one other in the foursome.) Slow play, hitting in the water, OB; these all make it tough to remember.

We have come across a few girls who cheat, but never a whole team. Good luck to your daughter and her team. At least they can sleep well at night.

DD is also a freshman but this is her 3rd varsity season so she doesn't have a problem calling other kids on scores-but as a 7th grader on varsity she did.

What really irks me is that this cheating team is one of the better teams in the state. Now, knowing what has been going on, they don't deserve the ranking they have now but they could still be close to that without cheating. Most of these girls are shooting 85-90 so it isn't all that difficult to remember what you got on each hole. Now, there are a couple teams in our conference where some of the girls will shoot 80 on 9 holes-THEN it gets tough .

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

Switch to cross country--no cheating there!

Sorry, that's no real help, but my DD14 runs XC. I like it because it's all about the time--no cheating, no kissing the coach's butt.

Rather than accuse the team outright, I suggest the coach mention it to whatever officials--maybe not even the specific team, just that he's concerned with some cheating. perhaps they can have an official (or parent from a completely different team) go with each foursome and keep their won score. It's one thing for them to cheat on the honor system, it'll be a lot tougher with an independent adult right there. A plan like this would also be simple to implement in time for the big tournament next weekend. I think it sounds better if the coach doesn't directly accuse "The Wildcats" of cheating, but mentions a general concern.

 

[golfgal]

Switch to cross country--no cheating there!

Sorry, that's no real help, but my DD14 runs XC. I like it because it's all about the time--no cheating, no kissing the coach's butt.

Rather than accuse the team outright, I suggest the coach mention it to whatever officials--maybe not even the specific team, just that he's concerned with some cheating. perhaps they can have an official (or parent from a completely different team) go with each foursome and keep their won score. It's one thing for them to cheat on the honor system, it'll be a lot tougher with an independent adult right there. A plan like this would also be simple to implement in time for the big tournament next weekend. I think it sounds better if the coach doesn't directly accuse "The Wildcats" of cheating, but mentions a general concern.

Right---from a XC family--there is plenty of "cheating" that goes on in XC, it is just harder to detect-like running someone into a tree or bumping their elbow to throw off their stride. The nice thing about golf, like XC, is your score is what it is-well unless you cheat that is. If you shoot a 40 and someone else shoots a 50, it is pretty clear who is better.

As for the "officials" the coaches are considered the officials and they can't watch everyone all the time, thus the reason for the honesty. The kids ultimately are the ones that need to keep track of everyone's score.

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

Would it be possible to use parent volunteers to do this, during the rest of the season? Obviously, parents would have to watch a foursome that didn't include anyone from their school. It's a shame it has to come to that, but I'm all for stopping any cheating, pronto.

And I've never heard of cheating in XC. Maybe it's because my DD isn't yet an elite runner--she barely made varsity last year, she wouldn't likely be targeted. But, our girls are always super friendly to other teams at meets, and win the school's sportsmanship award every year because they support every single runner. Of course, they're also the nerds of the jock world, but I kind of like it that way.

 

[tink_lover]

I golfed girls varsity in high school. We always counted the strokes of whoever you were paired with - don't they do that anymore? It wasn't uncommon to stand there and count back with them if they didn't remember or recalled a different number than what you counted.

 

[gina2000]

I absolutely hate cheating with a passion. It cheapens everyone's accomplishments.

Try swimming....the time is the time is the time.....

 

[agnes!]

Use of electronic devices on the course is also prohibited.

Are they prohibited for EVERYONE on the course that day? Coaches? Parents? Onlookers? Volunteers? Course staff?

If this other team doesn't deserve their ranking either through possible outright cheating or through their incompetence (either one or the other has to be true, right?), then some other team does. It's hard to know what to do, but if everyone on the team is consistently off with their scores, then it sounds like a systemic problem...

Good luck to the coach and to your team with their decision.

agnes!

 

[Bob NC]

What really irks me is that this cheating team is one of the better teams in the state.

This is just MY OPINION: I'm not buying it. A team does not become one of "the better teams in the state" while cheating. There are coaches, players, parents, spectators at these matches. Cheating shows up quicker in golf than any other sport on earth.

When a player declares their score for a hole the playing partners aren't just going to let a fictitious score "slip by". Well, they might let it slip by ONCE, but a team is not going to go from mediocre to one of the states best by cheating in the manner you suggest.

In the varsity tournament on Friday one of DD's teammates had to "correct" the score of the girl she was playing with on 6 holes

Once again, I'm not saying anyone is stretching the truth, buuuuut, I honestly can't believe in a high school varsity golf match, fabricating 6 scores on 6 different occasions wouldn't draw the attention of coaches and officials. My son plays golf and if he were in a match where his opponent lied about his score SIX TIMES, this match would have halted after 1 or 2, (ahem), corrections.

Something is fishy about this whole scenario, JUST in my humble opinion.

 

[golfgal]

I golfed girls varsity in high school. We always counted the strokes of whoever you were paired with - don't they do that anymore? It wasn't uncommon to stand there and count back with them if they didn't remember or recalled a different number than what you counted.

Yes they do if the score doesn't sound right but generally most girls are honest.

This is just MY OPINION: I'm not buying it. A team does not become one of "the better teams in the state" while cheating. There are coaches, players, parents, spectators at these matches. Cheating shows up quicker in golf than any other sport on earth.

When a player declares their score for a hole the playing partners aren't just going to let a fictitious score "slip by". Well, they might let it slip by ONCE, but a team is not going to go from mediocre to one of the states best by cheating in the manner you suggest.



Once again, I'm not saying anyone is stretching the truth, buuuuut, I honestly can't believe in a high school varsity golf match, fabricating 6 scores on 6 different occasions wouldn't draw the attention of coaches and officials. My son plays golf and if he were in a match where his opponent lied about his score SIX TIMES, this match would have halted after 1 or 2, (ahem), corrections.

Something is fishy about this whole scenario, JUST in my humble opinion.

How exactly would they halt the match? Maybe your area is different but for regular season matches/tournaments here there isn't an official that follows each group-at state yes, but not during the regular matches. We were at the tournament but we were not following any one group the whole round. We like to watch all the kids play. I agree that the girls probably should have called the coaches over during the match and most likely will be instructed to do so on Thursday when they play that team again, if they play with girls from that team again, but this was the first tournament they played since they found out about this team and their creative scoring.

As for going from mediocre to one of the best, they finished middle of our conference last year and probably 30th or so in state and now are at the top and are rated 5th or 6th over all in the state (they combine all 3 classes for the golf rankings).

I have to disagree that cheating is easily caught in high school golf matches. Maybe you have more spectators at your tournaments but unless one person follows a group the entire 18 holes and counts every single shot and compares their card to the players card, how exactly would you catch someone not counting a stroke here and there?

 

[MrsPete]

I think keeping the count is a good idea. Has the coach taken it to the athlectic director of the school? I think I would do that also.

Exactly what I was going to suggest. The athletic director is there to handle difficult situations, and this certainly qualifies.

I'm surprised no one has whipped out their cell-phone or digital camera or flip-camera to take pictures of this other team's members as they hit their golfballs and to record these smokin'-hot scores...in the interest of studying how they've improved so much.

Brilliant!

Use of electronic devices on the course is also prohibited.

Why? Other sports use video to critique their own performance -- why does golf frown upon this practice?

Right---from a XC family--there is plenty of "cheating" that goes on in XC, it is just harder to detect-like running someone into a tree or bumping their elbow to throw off their stride.

I know kids who want to be on a team -- perhaps to look good for scholarships, whatever -- but they don't really like to run. XC is seen as an "easy sport" because it has a short season; many people see it as "preparation" for the real track season, which doesn't come 'til spring. Anyway, some kids'll start the race with the group . . . then once the majority passes them, they'll just stop running and walk back to the finish unobtrusively. Of course, they can't really fake winning . . . but they're essentially faking being on the team.

Are they prohibited for EVERYONE on the course that day? Coaches? Parents? Onlookers? Volunteers? Course staff?

Good question. If parents are allowed to use cameras, I'd certainly help out with gathering proof.

Yes they do if the score doesn't sound right but generally most girls are honest.

I have seen a marked decline in honesty in the 17 years I've been teaching. It's a very sad thing, but I see more cheating on tests, more "borrowing" from the internet for papers and projects, I hear about more cheating in athletics (though this is the first time I've heard about golf), and more acceptance of loose morals in one's personal life.

 

[golfgal]

Exactly what I was going to suggest. The athletic director is there to handle difficult situations, and this certainly qualifies.Brilliant!Why? Other sports use video to critique their own performance -- why does golf frown upon this practice?I know kids who want to be on a team -- perhaps to look good for scholarships, whatever -- but they don't really like to run. XC is seen as an "easy sport" because it has a short season; many people see it as "preparation" for the real track season, which doesn't come 'til spring. Anyway, some kids'll start the race with the group . . . then once the majority passes them, they'll just stop running and walk back to the finish unobtrusively. Of course, they can't really fake winning . . . but they're essentially faking being on the team.Good question. If parents are allowed to use cameras, I'd certainly help out with gathering proof.I have seen a marked decline in honesty in the 17 years I've been teaching. It's a very sad thing, but I see more cheating on tests, more "borrowing" from the internet for papers and projects, I hear about more cheating in athletics (though this is the first time I've heard about golf), and more acceptance of loose morals in one's personal life.

I suppose a parent could video tape a player, that would be allowed, the players can not use them. You are only allowed 2 coaches on the course (that can talk with the players) so the coaches really can't do that.

I am sure we will learn more tomorrow or Tuesday about what is going to happen. I am not sure how they do the parings for the conference tournament. We know it is "seated" but we are not sure if that means by individual or by team. If it is by team, we will be paired with this other team, if it is individual it will be hit or miss if we are paired with any of them. Several parents are driving out there (it is about 1 1/2 hours away-long story) so maybe we can watch the other team play instead of our own kids .