Characters protesting

[Wadecool]

There are many states (like the one that I work in) that are not OSHA states. In these states many workers are exempt from OSHA regulations unless they are specifically adopted by the state. Even where OSHA regulates workplace safety, they do a very poor job of doing so and most of what they do is reactionary, as in after a death or serious injury has occurred. The incidence of injury/deaths in union workplaces is significantly lower than in non-union workplaces. Also, it is not the unions fault that jobs have moved out of our country. That lies with these supposed "fair trade" agreements which do not account for deplorable wages and working conditions elsewhere coupled with corparate greed which take advantage of them. Surely you dont think we should have 7 year olds working in factories for pennies a day so we can compete with other countries (or maybe you do).

The attitudes expressed in this thread are some of the biggest reasons that
unions are necessary. A complete lack of respect for the working men and
woman of this country. This idea that if they don't like it they should take the
steps to get a better job misses the point. Someone has to do the job and
they deserve a decent wage for doing it. noone is saying that a laborer
should make the same as a CEO. Jobs which require more skill, education,
training or involve more risk should pay more. That doesn't mean the growing
gap between the top earners and the bottom earners isn't a huge
problem.

Personally, as someone who has worked in factories that are union as well as non-union, its not a lack of respect for hard working folks at all. I do, however have a complete lack of respect for unions that do nothing more than collect dues to pass up to their fat cat bosses and give back little in return. In a PP I mentioned a BIL who works at a UAW Ford plant in Louisville making $100,000 driving a forklift. Even he can't believe he gets that much to move pallets. Unions did a lot for workers in the early to mid 20th century, especially for coal workers here in KY, but their time is past. Now, they are hanging on for dear life, but the writing is on the wall.

 

[Wadecool]

This isn't a discussion involving taxes, it is about the rights of people to organize in order to improve their lot in life. If you don't like that maybe you are the one who should move somewhere else where it is not allowed. Someday it will get to the point where the laborers that we all depend on will really organize and then those who don't have a proper appreciation for what they provide will acquire one in a hurry.

Sure, people have the right to organize and we should all be thankful for that right. But if you want to improve your lot in life, go out and make it happen all by yourself. The only thing you are truly entitled to is your own determination and will to succeed. I felt I deserved more money than my employer was paying me so I kept working that full time job, found student loans, and went to school all with a DW and newborn DD at home. It was tough, but I knew the only way I would get the life I was ENTITLED to was to bust my a** for it.

 

[Belle & Ariel]

In my school district it is next to impossible for a teacher to be fired. Maybe in an extreme case. There are plenty of teachers who deserve more than the "across the board" raise and plenty who do NOT. Why cant the excellent teachers be rewarded for their extra effort -- b/c of unions...

Our schools could actually educate if they got rid of the dead weight the unions have protected for decades.
A union will always hold a company back because they encourage laziness by protecting bad workers and at the same time do not reward great work and therefore do not motivate excellence.

 

[always]

I was in a teachers union because if I chose not to participate I would be harassed. No one should made to participate ever. And there was no $200 stipend so your broad brush seems to be a bit biased. Must be those slick union brochures.

Eta: let's see that same union allowed a teacher to assault over a dozen kids through 4 schools before he was finally stopped.

You should have ignored the harassment and negotiated your own contract if you really didn't want to join.

Moreover, it is poor administration that allows for bad teachers, not unions.

In addition, if you read carefully, which teachers should do, you would have noticed that the stipend was for union leadership, not for being a part of a union.

 

[ftballfan7]

Personally, as someone who has worked in factories that are union as well as non-union, its not a lack of respect for hard working folks at all. I do, however have a complete lack of respect for unions that do nothing more than collect dues to pass up to their fat cat bosses and give back little in return. In a PP I mentioned a BIL who works at a UAW Ford plant in Louisville making $100,000 driving a forklift. Even he can't believe he gets that much to move pallets. Unions did a lot for workers in the early to mid 20th century, especially for coal workers here in KY, but their time is past. Now, they are hanging on for dear life, but the writing is on the wall.

I read your original post. Union laborers making $100,000 dollars is the exception, not the norm. I agree that unions are struggling these days with the ignorance that exists about them. The idea that they collect dues and give nothing in return is a good example of this ignorance. If you read my previous posts, you would know that on average union workers make 28% more than their non-union counterparts; 92% of union workers have access to healthcare benefits as compared to 68% of non-union workers and they pay less for them; Union workers get 28% more days of paid leave and are 53.9% more likely to have employer-provided pensions. This is in spite of the fact that the gains union-workers have made have also improved the wages and working condition of non-union workers.

The facts are clear, the numbers speak for themselves, union workers are much better off. It is easy to say that isn't true, but that doesn't change the facts.

 

[sorcerormickey]

If this protest is anything like the ones in Anaheim, those aren't even Disney Cast Members.

Ummmm...YES they are CMs, I know several of them personally. And NO they are not in 'real' Disney character costumes. They are in those Halloween type things. God only knows what that yellow/horse/dog/seahorse thing is.

I think a bit of confusion comes in here: the outfits that CMs wear are ALSO called costumes and the Union urged CMs to wear their WORK costumes while protesting. I saw many sets of costume pants/shorts/skirts paired with those red tees.

 

[Mckymousefn]

First of all....there really aren't going to be kids seeing these CMs in 'character' simply because it's not close to a regular theme park. I suppose that if they are in DTD and on the roadway there, they could view it. Nothing I'm concerned about.
As to their 'right' to picket....it's the American way. But, I have to tell you...I get tired of people complaining that they aren't getting what they want...usually more health insurance for less money. I realize that these positions aren't huge pay spots, but really, the CMs knew going in what the pay is and what health insurance would be. And with the economy the way it is, they should be happy they have a job, with pay, and benefits. There are a ton of people working for Disney part-time, basically for the benefits. From what I understand, after talking to many CMs (in various areas of employ), the benefits at Disney are wonderful. This is one reason you don't see a ton of turnover...other than in the positions that young people fill. Why do you think so many of us know, or at least recognize, so many CMs..year after year.

With the numbers of people working for Disney, at WDW, you have to wonder why such a small number of CMs are 'unhappy'. The vast majority of them are pretty satisfied with what they have.

Very well stated!

 

[Planogirl]

My Dad was a union worker most of his life and he certainly didn't make 100,000K. Oh, before someone infers that he is beneath them, he was a highly educated individual who could never find a way to use his knowledge of history to make a living. That was his interest and he wasn't suited to teach.

I was also a union worker at one job and I made very little in those days. I wasn't in retail but maybe some other position that is beneath some here.

I don't really mean to be snide but people have the right in this country to organize and protest and I'm amazed at those who would say otherwise. I agree that if others don't like that right that they might want to live elsewhere. I think that we are losing way too many rights a little at a time and this anti-worker mentality isn't helping.

 

[ftballfan7]

Sure, people have the right to organize and we should all be thankful for that right. But if you want to improve your lot in life, go out and make it happen all by yourself. The only thing you are truly entitled to is your own determination and will to succeed. I felt I deserved more money than my employer was paying me so I kept working that full time job, found student loans, and went to school all with a DW and newborn DD at home. It was tough, but I knew the only way I would get the life I was ENTITLED to was to bust my a** for it.

Okay, this is the last time I am going to say this as I feel like I am beating a dead horse. I agree, by all means imrove yourself, improve your individual situation. But lets not forget about the people who are still back there doing a job that needs to be done. I make pretty good money, but that doesn't mean that I don't think others have a right to organize to improve the wages and working conditions at their jobs.

Someone has to do these jobs. They should be getting a livable wage and decent benefits. I encourage them to fight for these things, not only for themselves but for those that will follow them. Some people don't look out only for themselves, they have empathy and compassion for others as well.

 

[Wadecool]

I read your original post. Union laborers making $100,000 dollars is the exception, not the norm. I agree that unions are struggling these days with the ignorance that exists about them. The idea that they collect dues and give nothing in return is a good example of this ignorance. If you read my previous posts, you would know that on average union workers make 28% more than their non-union counterparts; 92% of union workers have access to healthcare benefits as compared to 68% of non-union workers and they pay less for them; Union workers get 28% more days of paid leave and are 53.9% more likely to have employer-provided pensions. This is in spite of the fact that the gains union-workers have made have also improved the wages and working condition of non-union workers.

The facts are clear, the numbers speak for themselves, union workers are much better off. It is easy to say that isn't true, but that doesn't change the facts.

First of all, statistics can be pulled out of the air to strengthen just about any point of view so let's just set those aside. A big reason that US companies are sending jobs overseas are unions, plain and simple. I know you said previously that trade agreements were to blame, but honestly what else could the union leaders and lobbyists say? They had to protect their golden goose and shift attention away from themselves toward something else, and those trade agreements were convenient. As I mentioned earlier, unions had a valuable role in the improvement in pay and working conditions in America, but that role is diminishing.

 

[Planogirl]

First of all, statistics can be pulled out of the air to strengthen just about any point of view so let's just set those aside. A big reason that US companies are sending jobs overseas are unions, plain and simple. I know you said previously that trade agreements were to blame, but honestly what else could the union leaders and lobbyists say? They had to protect their golden goose and shift attention away from themselves toward something else, and those trade agreements were convenient. As I mentioned earlier, unions had a valuable role in the improvement in pay and working conditions in America, but that role is diminishing.

Truthfully, do you believe that less jobs would go overseas if all of the unions suddenly disappeared?

I believe that the basic reason for outsourcing is higher labor costs. To stay here, companies would have to cut those costs to what they would find acceptable. I wonder where that line would be...

 

[Oglet]

I've said it before and I will say it again, some of the people pushing buttons on rides probably have a higher level of education than some of the people touting that education is the only answer.

 

[ftballfan7]

First of all, statistics can be pulled out of the air to strengthen just about any point of view so let's just set those aside. A big reason that US companies are sending jobs overseas are unions, plain and simple. I know you said previously that trade agreements were to blame, but honestly what else could the union leaders and lobbyists say? They had to protect their golden goose and shift attention away from themselves toward something else, and those trade agreements were convenient. As I mentioned earlier, unions had a valuable role in the improvement in pay and working conditions in America, but that role is diminishing.

These numbers come right out of a January 2011 Unites States Department of Labor Bureau - Labor Statistics report.

I am not sure how those statistics could mislead anyone, so I am not buying your lets not talk about facts just let me reiterate my opinion that I can't back up act. I am sure there are some who will be happy to take your opinion as fact regardless of a lack of any factual support for it, but they just want you to be right and are content to bury their heads in the sand.

 

[Wadecool]

Truthfully, do you believe that less jobs would go overseas if all of the unions suddenly disappeared?

I believe that the basic reason for outsourcing is higher labor costs. To stay here, companies would have to cut those costs to what they would find acceptable. I wonder where that line would be...

Yeah, I do. And your second sentence hit the nail on the head, outsourcing is a direct result of labor costs. And let me say that I respect you, your dad, and anyone else who does any job. I truly believe there is honor in hard work and I'm not above anyone. I just think there's a little too much "entitlement" in today's society.

 

[Planogirl]

Yeah, I do. And your second sentence hit the nail on the head, outsourcing is a direct result of labor costs. And let me say that I respect you, your dad, and anyone else who does any job. I truly believe there is honor in hard work and I'm not above anyone. I just think there's a little too much "entitlement" in today's society.

I can only relate to my own experiences. My company has nothing to do with unions not even through suppliers in a direct way. They didn't hesitate to outsource everyone they could.

Also, again, if high labor costs are the primary reason for outsourcing then labor costs would have to be cut to stop it or even better reverse it. Where would you cut? This would affect everyone even those who are proud that they made it through hard work without unions.

By the way, I dislike entitlement too.

 

[GalDisney]

Disney could, at the very least pay these people a living wage..No one is saying pay them 18.00 an hr, but maybe at least 11.oo would help alot! Alot of the CMs make less than 7.75 per hr..and most ar Pt employees which mean no guaretted number of hrs per week and no health benefits..

 

[Planogirl]

Disney could, at the very least pay these people a living wage..No one is saying pay them 18.00 an hr, but maybe at least 11.oo would help alot! Alot of the CMs make less than 7.75 per hr..and most ar Pt employees which mean no guaretted number of hrs per week and no health benefits..

According to some they don't deserve to make that much.

Maybe I'm selfish but I want happy, experienced CM's when I visit. CM's can really add a lot to a visit and I appreciate it.

 

[Wadecool]

These numbers come right out of a January 2011 Unites States Department of Labor Bureau - Labor Statistics report.

I am not sure how those statistics could mislead anyone, so I am not buying your lets not talk about facts just let me reiterate my opinion that I can't back up act. I am sure there are some who will be happy to take your opinion as fact regardless of a lack of any factual support for it, but they just want you to be right and are content to bury their heads in the sand.

Oh, so you've found a little life left in the old horse after all. The labor statistics you mention are full of literally hundreds of stats on everything imaginable, so what? What I was trying to say about statistics is that even a reputable source like the one you mention can be manipulated to strengthen an argument, like you've done here. Thats what makes your use of them so
compelling, until one looks closer. Ok, let's just take a look at those stats your hanging your argument on and think on them, shall we? Basically, all those stats tell me is that union workers
make a whole lot more money than non-union workers. Most of us already knew that. And we
know that American companies are sending jobs overseas because labor costs are too high here.
And why are labor costs too high here? Wait a minute, I think those statistics you brought up do
have a significance after all, just not like you intended. See how statistics can be used to help
just about any argument?

 

[ftballfan7]

Oh, so you've found a little life left in the old horse after all. The labor statistics you mention are full of literally hundreds of stats on everything imaginable, so what? What I was trying to say about statistics is that even a reputable source like the one you mention can be manipulated to strengthen an argument, like you've done here. Thats what makes your use of them so
compelling, until one looks closer. Ok, let's just take those stats your hanging your argument on
and think on them, shall we? Basically, all those stats tell me is that union workers make a
whole lot more money than non-union workers. Most of us already knew that. And we know that
American companies are sending jobs overseas because labor costs are too high here. And why
are labor costs too high here? Wait a minute, I think those statistics you brought up do have a
significance after all, just not like you intended. See how statistics can be used to help just about
any argument? I agree that someones head has been buried in the sand...

My reference to beating a dead horse was referring to a particular point that you, as well as a few others, still choose not to recognize or address. A point that I didn't address in the post you quoted here.

If your argument is that the wages of laborers should be lowered to the point of other countries in order to avoid outsourcing, than yes I guess those statistics could be used to bolster an argument against unions. I am hoping (and was giving you the benefit of the doubt) that you do not favor such an action. I am arguing against your statement that unions no longer help workers and have outlived their usefulness. As well as your apparent belief that workers should not try to improve the pay in their current jobs when they believe it to be substandard. Even beyond the statistics, one of the most important roles of a union is to protect from dismissal without cause.

 

[d-r]

That's right! More government is always better! Freedom of assembly, freedom of speech, freedom to buy what we want or not buy what we don't want.... Wait, you mean we don't get that last one anymore? Who isn't excited about government bureaucrats getting their hands on our medical records? No way that can go terribly wrong. That's change we can believe in!

Dude, first of all, whatever that line is about the medical records, it is a straw man, I don't even know where that came from.

Then you wrote -

Sure, people have the right to organize and we should all be thankful for that right. But if you want to improve your lot in life, go out and make it happen all by yourself. The only thing you are truly entitled to is your own determination and will to succeed. I felt I deserved more money than my employer was paying me so I kept working that full time job, found student loans, and went to school all with a DW and newborn DD at home. It was tough, but I knew the only way I would get the life I was ENTITLED to was to bust my a** for it.

Did they teach you to think critically or to form a logical argument?

Student loans. With that newborn at home, you did it all by yourself. With sheer determination and your will power. And certainly without the government backing up the student loans you needed. Because you *FOUND* those loans, just found them, just sitting there in the cabbage patch.

Now, was that a public university?

Listen, You are right. If someone doesn't like the way they are treated at work, one thing they can do is find another job. Like you, they can go to back to school, or not. ANOTHER thing that they could do is organize with their co-workers who agree with them and protest. Its a free country, they can do whichever one they would like, not only the one that you think worked for you. Amazing how freedom works.