Change in plans...

[Cindy F]

I agree. Just because we like the campsites shouldn't mean we lose out on the deals. I would love to be able to do the free dining. I asked why and was told FW is always booked so they don't have to.

I think that was part of the point Jen was making: until consumers show that they would like a change-there won't be one. That's pretty much a business standard and it is just business however; many companies forget that they are doing business with people and people have emotions.

So, if the sites are $100 a piece with no "extra" deals (including resident/neighbor rates), things get bad for Disney and they temporarily drop the site rate to $70 plus a discount on "fill in the blank"-some people will take advantage of it and some will think:
"nope, still too high, maybe you should have been charging decent rates all along instead of price gouging- then you wouldn't be hurting now."

Just depends on the person, what's important to them....and the economy. The only way I personally would pay $100 a site was if it came with free dining and I took both girls with me. I can't imagine anything else getting me to pay that.

I did notice some cut backs this last trip-some that I thought were very bad choices on Disney's part because if they cut the little extras (and some big extras in my opinion) and "special things" they run the risk of ruining what makes Disney, Disney. I don't think they'll go that far but you never know.

 

[auntie]

I could see not having the free dining included with campsites when the sites ranged from the $50 - $70.00 range. However, with sites being in the $100 - even $120 range...the campsites at that rate should be allowed to participate in the free dining promo's. If they're gonna limit the number of full hook up...or partial sites, and charge those kind of rates, then the campsites should reap the same benefits as the resorts.

 

[Shan-man]

I know I'm waging a losing battle here, but I thought I'd interject the fact that the $100+ prices for Premium sites only account for about 80 days a year. For about 165 days of the year, Premiums go for about $74. The rest of the time it's about $93. So I think it is unfair to make it seem that $100-120 is the typical price you'd pay for a site at FW.

 

[2goofycampers]

One thing that gripes me is that pricing tier, if you can make a profit at $74.00 a nite why gouge people with $100-120.00 a nite for the same thing at busy season.

I think Disney is knocking out alot of families from vacationing there because of the higher prices when their kids are out of school. After all Walt's dream for all Disney Parks was so ALL FAMILIES could enjoy them.

 

[Cindy F]

I know I'm waging a losing battle here, but I thought I'd interject the fact that the $100+ prices for Premium sites only account for about 80 days a year. For about 165 days of the year, Premiums go for about $74. The rest of the time it's about $93. So I think it is unfair to make it seem that $100-120 is the typical price you'd pay for a site at FW.

LOL I think arguing that The Fort is a value campground will always bee a losing battle! Maybe I have been spoiled by the "other campground" and the fact that our first stay (in December), we got the neighbor rate. At $52? a night (full hookups & pet loop) I thought it was worth it, $70? not so much.

Shan, it's just another way of looking at it-not better-just different:

1) Other campground $18 for full hook-ups and pets-year round. The Fort with good neighbor rate around $52 BUT you don't have to pay parking so add $12 onto other campground plus maybe $5? a day gas brings it to around $35 a night BUT you don't get the perks of the Fort--- for $17 extra a night, I think The Fort is well worth it but at $35 extra a night? That's a whole day at the other campground, plus gas, plus parking.

Spread out over an 8 day trip, that's $280 extra (the total cost of other site, gas,parking)--a whole 'nuther 8 day vacation we could have had

2) We can rent a motor boat at the other campground for about $15 a day as opposed to Fort Wilderness at $30 an hour

3) Children's Farm/Petting zoo at both campgrounds

4) Pool at both campgrounds

5) Nice Playgrounds at both: "other Site"

The Fort

Turkey Lake does have a bit of an advantage of being close to everything (thank God! considering our poor jinxed trip) I went to urgent care 4 miles from the campground then got my prescriptions filled, rented movies, and got a take out pizza before heading back to the campground.

The Fort has more activities and we love the sing-a-long, campfire movie, and Wishes on the beach but....we had to ride the bus to that from our campsite, so what's the difference between riding the bus from our campsite and going and riding the bus from the front parking lot and going? Or....just riding the boat over from Magic Kingdom?
My point is, we can still enjoy those things without staying at the campground---many do!

Having said ALLLL that, as much as we love the "other campground", we still love The Fort and will continue to go once a year-maybe twice a year but the rest of the time will be at our other love-the campground that loves us back (or at least loves our wallet back)!

I also think it's a good deal to compromise and have a week at The Fort and a week at a less expensive site and of course some people just can't afford The Fort. It's not that they object to the higher prices in principle, there are some folks who just can not afford it and it's nice that they have a really nice alternative if they like Disney and want to camp or can't afford a hotel!

No, The Fort is not a "value minded" campground but it is a great choice for a vacation resort once or twice a year if you can swing it, if not (or you want an "extra vacation")- there are other campgrounds around that are fun too!

 

[Cindy F]

One thing that gripes me is that pricing tier, if you can make a profit at $74.00 a nite why gouge people with $100-120.00 a nite for the same thing at busy season.

I think Disney is knocking out alot of families from vacationing there because of the higher prices when their kids are out of school. After all Walt's dream for all Disney Parks was so ALL FAMILIES could enjoy them.

Dangit Denise. You said what I was getting at and didn't need half a page to do it! ~grin~

 

[BigDaddyRog]

Well. I, for one have thoroughly enjoyed this (ahem) debate...and have actually learned quite a bit from it. Without seeming TOO Switzerlandish, I have to agree that both points are very valid, and well stated. Being that I fit into the "Too far away for multiple annual visits" crowd... I agree with Shan...its a WONDERFUL place to enjoy some well deserved self-pampering and is a vacation within itself with just enough of the disney flair and flavor to make skipping the parks when so close not seem like a bad idea at all.

On the Jen side.....who the hell can afford to be a loyal Disney visitor at THESE prices???? If Im paying $75 to go to a park...shouldnt my campsite be ALOT cheaper than my PARK ADMISSION???? ESPECIALLY if Im bringing a FAMILY and its $75 a day per person for the park(I know..the more ya play, the less ya pay)???? Why isnt there a package deal of some sort. Since the Fort IS a vacation within itself and many DO go simply to camp without visiting the park....why isnt there a discount for park admission??? I HONESTLY think they need to offer SOMETHING!!!!

After seeing both sides of this argument, Im sorry.....DISCUSSION, I think the smartest thing for ME to do is....
Camp At The Fort.com

withOUT visiting the parks every EVEN year....and check out Turkey Lake with tinah159's camper every ODD year for park vacations.


Does Turkey Lake allow Golf Carts? Is there a need for a golf cart there?

 

[Shan-man]

Turkey Lake appears to be a very nice campground and an exceptional value at $18. The kind of value I have never seen before. I don't think I've ever paid less that $25 a night to camp anywhere... even in state parks without electricity! Our local state park charges nearly twice that and doesn't have nearly the facilities. I routinely pay $25-35 a night for interstate-exit campgrounds that offer nothing other than a socket, sewer and spigot. To camp at a nice facility in Asheville or Williamsburg I expect to pay $35-45 a night... not a resort mind you, just a clean place you wouldn't mind hanging out at for a few days. I have looked into several 'resort' campgrounds that are near the beach and have lots of 'resort amenities' like feature pools and golf cart rentals, and to get something like that in Myrtle Beach you are looking at $75-100 per night. Who the hell would pay that to go to Myrtle Beach! Not me baby! I'm going to DisneyWorld! If you are just as happy at Turkey Lake, I whole heartedly say enjoy it... heck your tax dollars are paying for it anyhow! If Turkey lake were 60-90 minutes from my house I'd be there all the time, too. But I'm not going to drive 10 hours to go to Turkey Lake, and Disney knows that. And if I were the same distance to Turkey Lake or Fort Wilderness, I would skip several camping trips in order to go to the Fort once, because to me the Fort is not just a place to crash after a day in the parks, and the amenities are not nice little bonuses, the Fort is the DESTINATION.

 

[auntie]

I know I'm waging a losing battle here, but I thought I'd interject the fact that the $100+ prices for Premium sites only account for about 80 days a year. For about 165 days of the year, Premiums go for about $74. The rest of the time it's about $93. So I think it is unfair to make it seem that $100-120 is the typical price you'd pay for a site at FW.

Well, I can't speak to this year's rates, as frankly I haven't checked, but we were able to get a really good AAA rate on a preferred site last year..and it ran around $50.00. Can't go wrong for that. I know the campground we had a seasonal site in was higher than that..and that was just for two people. So I was happy with our rate.
That being said, I merely meant that WHEN the Fort is charging rates in the $100.00 to $120.00 a night range I think it would be fair for those folks on those sites to be included in the free dining promotions. Just something to think about. While it may be only 80 days a year now that they charge that much, something tells me it won't be long before most of the sites wind up in that range..it's inevitable. If that's the direction that Disney is taking the Fort in....I think people are going to want the same benefits of those staying in the values. Being included in the free dining promotions as one of them.
Mind you..I don't have a dog in this race..as I personally prefer to avoid traveling during free dining. Be it to the Fort or to the resorts.
That being said, I do kind of see both sides of this issue.
People traveling but once a year, and those who live in closer proximity but would like to visit more often. Honestly, it's a "comparing apples to oranges" kind of thing. Certainly what one person considers a good value, is not what another might feel is so.
This economy has caused everyone to to re-evaluate whats worth it...and what's not.

 

[Shan-man]

I agree with you Auntie... I don't see why the Fort is excluded from Free Dining. I guess it shows the motivation for offering Free Dining: it's not to fill the parks, it's to fill the hotel rooms! A problem they don't seem to have at the Fort. I also agree that I wouldn't want to be there during free dining. Dining is a big part of our vacation experience and I don't want to deal with the ADR crush and the lapse in service/quality.

 

[Cindy F]

....Without seeming TOO Switzerlandish....Does Turkey Lake allow Golf Carts? Is there a need for a golf cart there?

LOL, Don't feel bad, I'm a big 'ol Switzerland too, I love them both! No, there's no need for a golf cart, the camping area is actually pretty small and they only have maybe 40 spots or so? You can pretty much drive to any area of the park, including the lake, children's farm, and picnic pavilion.

Turkey Lake appears to be a very nice campground and an exceptional value at $18. The kind of value I have never seen before.... If you are just as happy at Turkey Lake, I whole heartedly say enjoy it... heck your tax dollars are paying for it anyhow! If Turkey lake were 60-90 minutes from my house I'd be there all the time, too. But I'm not going to drive 10 hours to go to Turkey Lake, and Disney knows that. And if I were the same distance to Turkey Lake or Fort Wilderness, I would skip several camping trips in order to go to the Fort once, because to me the Fort is not just a place to crash after a day in the parks, and the amenities are not nice little bonuses, the Fort is the DESTINATION.

I agree! I've never seen $18 a night for such a nice campground either. It's not really an either or type thing, I enjoy both of them and TL allows me to have a few bonus visits and or add a week onto my Fort visits.

Just because you really like steak doesn't mean you can't enjoy a big fat hamburger sometimes too! Now that we aren't in state, we drive about 8 hours to Orlando. We had 4 trips to Orlando last year, 1 at The Fort and the other 3 at TL. Sure, I'll drive all that way to stay at TL for extra visits, it's still fun-we still go to WDW, we're still together.

If I could only go once a year, yep, I would probably stay at The Fort but if I couldn't get in or couldn't afford it I would never tell the kids "we're not going to Disney unless we can stay at the hotel/campground that's my first choice".
I enjoyed our trip to The Fort (obviously since I booked 3 weeks in Dec) but I don't want to give up my bonus trips to Orlando/Disney just because I don't want to shell out he extra $$$ for the Fort.

Then again, I'm pretty easy going and easy to please. Anyone that can have a trip like our last one and still say they had a good time.......is obviously not "high maintenance"

There again, everyone has their own idea of vacation and camping etc.... Hey, I've heard people say if the only way they could go to Disney was to camp, they would never go and that camping wasn't a vacation (silly people what are they thinking? )

Listen y'all, we can't become like the resort board and have flame throwing wars over who has the best moderate resort "CBR is the best" "NO IT IS NOT! POR IS THE BEST AND YOU"RE DUMB IF YOU DON"T THINK SO!"

We all love camping, we all love The Fort but we can love other campgrounds too....it's not like we're "cheating" on Fort Wilderness ~grin~

 

[AuburnJen92]

I think that was part of the point Jen was making: until consumers show that they would like a change-there won't be one. That's pretty much a business standard and it is just business however; many companies forget that they are doing business with people and people have emotions.

So, if the sites are $100 a piece with no "extra" deals (including resident/neighbor rates), things get bad for Disney and they temporarily drop the site rate to $70 plus a discount on "fill in the blank"-some people will take advantage of it and some will think:
"nope, still too high, maybe you should have been charging decent rates all along instead of price gouging- then you wouldn't be hurting now."

Just depends on the person, what's important to them....and the economy. The only way I personally would pay $100 a site was if it came with free dining and I took both girls with me. I can't imagine anything else getting me to pay that.

I did notice some cut backs this last trip-some that I thought were very bad choices on Disney's part because if they cut the little extras (and some big extras in my opinion) and "special things" they run the risk of ruining what makes Disney, Disney. I don't think they'll go that far but you never know.

THANK YOU. Finally, I am getting through.

 

[AuburnJen92]

Ok, I'm something of a word geek, so forgive me for again taking issue with this line of thinking. First, ignorant does not equal stupid (despite modern corruption of the word), so that is not what I'm accusing you of calling me. Ignorant means that you choose not to know certain things, not an inability. Plenty of highly intelligent people fly in airliners with no concept of how aerodynamics work. They are ignorant about the physics of flight. You are clearly accusing me of being ignorant regarding Disney's history of business practices (I'm clouding my judgement with pixie dust, and ignoring trends and so on, and so on, and so on!) and for you to cry foul when I put the label on those many, many accusations is silly, and frankly out of character for a pull-no-punch, straight-talker such as yourself! I disagree that I am ignorant of these factors, I am aware of them, I just deny that they have any relevance in determining the current value of a Fort stay, so I choose to focus on the things that do speak to current value. I don't want to focus on the things that irritate. I'm sorry to everyone my optimism irritates.

BTW: If we ever go to the movies together, and you notice that there is a big smudge on the screen, please don't point it out to me... if you do I'm likely to fixate on it and miss the movie! Please don't hate me because I'm able to enjoy the movie!

Fine, we disagree. I never called you a name. I stated a fact of what would happen if certain things were done in a certain fashion. You, in turn took it as a personal attack, to which you reacted in an emotional fashion. I believe that I pointed out two things that you took out of context, my and the flame's words. You think I am name calling, and I am not. If I was, believe me, I would not mince words. This is a discussion, no more and no less. The only person that seems emotional about all of this and claims name calling is you. All I said is that to ignore patterns blah blah blah. You are wanting to play semantics, when there are none to be played. I am not going to the ignorance definition at all, and I never was, you read that into it, even after I told you that you took me out of context, which I still feel was wrong. If you think I am silly, then fine, call me that. But you do admit you are denying that the factors I have discussed have any relevance, and for that, we will be at an impasse. I always look at both sides and empathize with the opposing position. I am one of the few that do. I am glad you are optimistic, I really am. I am a realist and a businesswoman. I study these kinds of things, along with others that are on this board, who are my neighbors and not so much neighbors. In order to make an informed decision, one must be informed. People come to this board for information, and by gollie, they need all they can get, and not just from you and me.

And by the way, I can enjoy the movie too, but I am going to inform the manager after the movie that the smudge was there so he can fix it. And I would check up on it to make sure it was fixed too, not just rely on word of mouth that the movie theatre was still great and magical.

I'm done Shan, you have hurt my feelings enough.

 

[auntie]

By the way...if anyone is interested..I asked for refund after watching a movie with a smudge on the screen...AND I GOT IT!

I do have to say though if I were to tell my husband he was going to tow 1200 miles to stay in a campsite that cost us a $100.00 a night ...ummm, Lord...I'd be paying for that for a VERY long time! I have been known to loose the American Express or Visa bill from time to time.
Hey..it's kept us happily married this long!

 

[Cindy F]

.......I'm done Shan, you have hurt my feelings enough.

 

[Shan-man]

All I've done is try to block punches and never returned insult for injury. Try reading what you've written... my brain is clouded with pixie dust, a dozen comments that say I'm ignorant (without using the word, so it's ok), I'm manipulating figures to make a false case! This whole frickin' day has been an assault one me and my character just because I choose to cling to the best things about the Fort and share my opinion. Of all the people on this board I would have thought that you, Jen, would have been the first to give me a little credit... I have bent over backwards to be helpful and a friend to you... lending both time and talents. Yet you say I've hurt your feelings enough?! GMAFB! I'm done too.

Cindy, and everyone else who this ridiculous exchange has impacted negatively, I'm sincerely sorry. I really do try to be upbeat and non-controversial normally. This failure has left me broken and very sad. I apologize.

 

[Cindy F]

All I've done is try to block punches and never returned insult for injury. Try reading what you've written... my brain is clouded with pixie dust, a dozen comments that say I'm ignorant (without using the word, so it's ok), I'm manipulating figures to make a false case! This whole frickin' day has been an assault one me and my character just because I choose to cling to the best things about the Fort and share my opinion. Of all the people on this board I would have thought that you, Jen, would have been the first to give me a little credit... I have bent over backwards to be helpful and a friend to you... lending both time and talents. Yet you say I've hurt your feelings enough?! GMAFB! I'm done too.

Cindy, and everyone else who this ridiculous exchange has impacted negatively, I'm sincerely sorry. I really do try to be upbeat and non-controversial normally. This failure has left me broken and very sad. I apologize.

Oh my goodness! Shan, I certainly didn't mean for you to think I was upset with you or attacking you-I felt bad I had made a comment that upset you without knowing it. I didn't look at it as though anyone was attacking or meaning to hurt anyone.

I just looked at it as everyone sharing their opinions and thoughts regarding changes in the economy and how it's affected their vacation plans, prices being a little steep at The Fort, ways to stretch a "Disney Dollar" and so on.

I didn't mean to upset anyone and I'm pretty sure no one else intended that either, I think maybe the discussion just got a little "overheated". Maybe a good night's sleep and a break from the topic would do everybody a bit of good?

Please y'all, let's not let a difference of opinions and a heated discussion cloud friendships here. Harsh words and hurt feelings can be soothed with friendly overtures.

 

[Shan-man]

Cindy, the only part addressed to you in any way way the last few lines (i.e. the apology). I feel awful for letting Jen and my disagreement dampen anyone else's DISexperience.

 

[Cindy F]

Cindy, the only part addressed to you in any way way the last few lines (i.e. the apology). I feel awful for letting Jen and my disagreement dampen anyone else's DISexperience.

It's okay to disagree Shan but I think it would be pretty sad to let a heated discussion sour friendships. I don't think anyone has dampened anyone else's DISexperience- it's good to have people who feel passionately about things and are willing to put it out there!
Tempers flare but they cool off too, this too shall pass and you and Jen will be buds again in no time and here's a beer to help it along!

 

[LONE-STAR]

As long as we have jobs we will be at FW. Its our 2 1/2 week vacation every year. With the triple A discount we are only paying around $65.00 a night for our next trip. Other then state parks most nice campgrounds around here are $50.00 a night(and they are not FW). I do agree that they are getting really high on there prices but who hasn't. The sad part about FW rates getting so high is FW was Walt's way of making it affordable to stay at WDW for the working man. Which may not always be the case anymore. To me FW is as much a part of a WDW vacation as going to MK but thats just because we have stayed there since the 70's. I almost forgot looping thats worth $25.00 a day by it's self. Nothing like going to the Meadows or the Marina in your cart.