Cecil the Lion

[dinolounger]

Yes, my mistake. A few of the articles I read stressed that Cecil was endangered which made it doubly wrong. I am a fan of google and usually verify things before posting, but this time I did not. Lesson learned.

One of the primary reason many big cats are not getting onto endangered lists is the fact they are one of the easier species to get to readily reproduce in captivity. That's one of the reasons there are so many private owners of lions and tigers in this country. If you just consider tigers, estimates there are something between 5 to 7 thousand being kept privately here. That's a larger number than all tigers still in the wild.

http://www.livescience.com/16815-exotic-pets-wildlife-infographic.html

 

[Hrhpd]

The New York Times published the below this morning.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/30/us/cecil-the-lion-walter-palmer.html?_r=0

They hit the nail on the head in describing exactly what is going on here and elsewhere online:

Internet Vigilantism

And they almost directly quoted me on points I made earlier. From the article (I added the bold emphasis):

"The outrage and attention surrounding the lion’s death online caused Dr. Palmer to keep his office closed on Wednesday as he joined an ever-expanding group of people who have become targets of Internet vigilantism, facing a seemingly endless shaming until the next issue comes along."

And per the last point in the above quote, enjoy this fracas while you can, given its short life expectancy. That will be another two days or so max; by then the fickle online vigilante crowd will get distracted by and move on to the next trending scandal.

CNN seems to disagree that the media storm and the effects on Dr. Palmer's business will die down soon. They cite examples that the cheerleader is still, to this day, getting negative posts on her facebook page and that the facebook page Stop Melissa Bachman is still going 2 years after she posted a picture of herself next to a dead lion. And neither of these people received the initial backlash that Palmer is receiving. Hell, Palmer had to just hire a PR firm to try and salvage some of his reputation.

Past examples suggest that the outcry over the latest trophy hunter's kill is unlikely to die down any time soon.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/29/world/cecil-lion-walter-palmer-social-reaction/​

 

[GaryDis]

Tigers are, in fact, considered endangered. AFAIK, the number of privately owned tigers in North America isn't considered a help to the tiger species. I don't really understand the genetics behind the reasoning, but I've seen the privately owned tigers described as having junk genetics. Big Cat Rescue has a page explaining their view on captive breeding. If you're down there and have a spare day, you might want to take their tour instead of Busch Gardens.

 

[Hrhpd]

If you want a sense of how complicated, slow and uncertain of success the extradition process is, you may want to dig up the old Amanda Knox threads that I think are in this forum. If Zimbabwe pursues extradition (for someone who likely has deep pockets for legal defense) we are looking at a process that will possibly take years before any closure.

All the more better to keep his poaching longer in the news. The longer he stays relevant to the news media, the longer his dental practice will suffer. He will probably have enough supporters to eek out a living with his practice, but the days of an uber rich practice where he has an extra $50,000+ for illegal "sport" are probably long over.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Italy and Zimbabwe are two different countries. Pretty sure there was a human murder in the Knox case.

Not worried about time/process/difficulty. Sometimes doing the right thing is hard. That's OK.
And I believe so-called "closure" is a fake concept, so that's off the table anyway.

To add to your post, there was also an acquittal at the appellate level and questions of double jeopardy involved in that case. Moreover, Italy let her return to the U.S. and did not seek extradition between said acquittal and her retrial ordered by a higher court.

 

[dinolounger]

Italy and Zimbabwe are two different countries. Pretty sure there was a human murder in the Knox case.

Not really an accurate analogy. The terms of an extradition treaties aren't segregated by whether a crime involved a human or animal and don't vary that much across countries.

If you review treaties, most follow the same general template: you can request extradition is someone has been charged (or in the case of Knox, convicted but then left) with/of a crime. You cannot request extradition if the individual you are seeking has already been tried for the crime in the country that is being asked to extradite. That confused a lot of people with Knox, they thought the fact she had been tried in Italy and received a conviction that was reversed in Italy meant she was "free" due to "double jepoardy." What they missed (and again to this day still have a really hard time understanding) is that she was never tried for murder in the U.S., which is the only way a so-called "double jeopardy" clause would have come into effect vis-a-vis extradition.

As far as Walter Palmer goes, if Zimbabwe wants to request his extradition the process will be identical to if they were requesting someone accused of murdering a human. Request will go to State Department, which just revews it to make sure it conforms with the rules of the treaty before handing it to a federal judge. Said judge would then order Palmer to be held and a hearing would follow where he and his legal counsel could either wave extradition or present a case against it. In that situation the judge would rule. If they ruled against Palmer, he could then file an appeal.

Perhaps you now have an understanding of why this process can take a long, long time.

And in other news, PETA is now calling for Palmer to be executed. Let's hear their cheerleaders here explain how that is not exhibit A of inflammatory vigilantism.

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/07/30/peta-says-cecil-the-lion-s-killer-should-be-hanged-hunting-i/21215824/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl27|sec1_lnk3&pLid=-1068097111

 

[gwynne]

I am familiar with the Knox case. If you want to see these two cases as quite similar and close comparison, that's your privilege.
I'll leave you to it.

 

[erin1715]

What is completely insane and backwards about how the media (and general public) is reacting to this is that videos were released about Planned Parenthood selling aborted baby parts, and yet we haven't seen NEARLY the outrage that we have for a man killing an animal. It shows where our values are in this country.

And before someone says it, yes you can be upset over both, but the lion coverage is clearly showing where our priorities lay.

And I am an animal lover and think it's horrible what this hunter did to this lion.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I am familiar with the Knox case. If you want to see these two cases as quite similar and close comparison, that's your privilege.
I'll leave you to it.

I regret that I have but one like to give to this post.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Deleted.

 

[dinolounger]

I am familiar with the Knox case. If you want to see these two cases as quite similar and close comparison, that's your privilege.
I'll leave you to it.

And if you want to dream that extradition processes move quickly, that's your privilege.

 

[gwynne]

I really liked this piece, Raising Voices for Cecil The Lion

http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2015/07/30/427695220/raising-voices-for-cecil-the-lion

 

[robinb]

All the more better to keep his poaching longer in the news. The longer he stays relevant to the news media, the longer his dental practice will suffer. He will probably have enough supporters to eek out a living with his practice, but the days of an uber rich practice where he has an extra $50,000+ for illegal "sport" are probably long over.

It would be a real shame if he had to sell his house with his trophy room to pay his legal bills.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

And if you want to dream that extradition processes move quickly, that's your privilege.

Meh, it doesn't really matter. He's already been tried, convicted and proverbially tarred and feathered by the voice of public opinion through the inter webs.

 

[dinolounger]

CNN seems to disagree that the media storm and the effects on Dr. Palmer's business will die down soon.

CNN? They were the ones who also told us that Hong Kong is in Brazil:

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

CNN? They were the ones who also told us that Hong Kong is in Brazil:

How long do you have to save pics for just the right time to use them in a forum debate? You seem to use pics and smilies to prove your supposed points a lot.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

And if you want to dream that extradition processes move quickly, that's your privilege.

Gwynne said she wasn't worried about time, nor difficulty. She explained her position by saying sometimes doing the right thing is hard. That isn't the same as saying extradition processes move quickly.

 

[anniemae]

It seems US officials want to talk to him immediately. I wonder if he will come out of hiding.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

How long do you have to save pics for just the right time to use them in a forum debate? You seem to use pics and smilies to prove your supposed points a lot.

Well I won't tell you or anyone else what to do. But as for me, Someone in the graphics department messed up. Therefore, I am not going to pay attention to anything anyone that has ever worked for CNN says ever again.

 

[robinb]

How long do you have to save pics for just the right time to use them in a forum debate? You seem to use pics and smilies to prove your supposed points a lot.

I recall another DISer doing the same thing a while back but I can't remember her name. Shoot! Now it's gonna bug me for the rest of the day.