CDC Notifies States, Large Cities To Prepare For Vaccine Distribution As Soon As Late October

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Well in my experience shaming and beating someone over the head with what you want them to do never works. You tend to get the opposite effect you are looking for.

Even though I know I'm guilty of this to an extent it's probably exactly why I pushed back on some things I've read. Because the people who are pushing back against the vaccine the loudest (mostly that is) were also the loudest the opposite way. Even though the reasons aren't outlandish if you've spent the entire time harping at other people to do the right thing, calling out all the other people, spending an inordinate amount of time calling people selfish and every other name in the book, pulling the "you're killing grandma" spiel out of your pocket whenever you can you have to know that people are going to push back at you. But the way the pandemic direction went it should be exactly the responses one would expect. If you make it so much about you need to do the right thing for the greater good then you need to keep with that.

 

[Jonfw2]

Live Nation's president just said that they will not mandate vaccines to attend their shows, but they will honor whatever rule the venue or local municipality has made.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Shaming worked pretty well with cigarette smoking.

Social shaming psychologically doesn't tend to work. But there are other tactics to use to bend public opinion one way or another.

 

[mefordis]

You at first sound like you're incredulous that anyone would be able to say something about an effect now.

All your other comments are completely different and flip around to that you support their theories in some way.

I think we found out more of what your real reason in commenting...

Both can be true. Any adverse events more than likely will not be able to be proven.

 

[tippity]

I’m not here to argue about the message I’m just saying it doesn’t have to be delivered in a way that makes people angry and defensive. That’s not going to make them do what you want them to do.

You're right. No one can be made to get the vaccine. But I do think that businesses can refuse service to the "Unvaccinated by Choice" .

I'm hoping that the "Unvaccinated by Choice" will not be allowed on airplanes, cruise ships, and theme parks.

Not as a punishment, but because of their potential to spread the disease.
I keep remembering the Disneyland measles outbreak. It could have been avoided.

 

[mefordis]

Yes. And hiding behind "well, it's just what people are saying" is disingenuous.

I believe the two scientists have a good point about more testing needing to be done. The link to their petition I posted is worth reading for anyone considering getting the vaccine. I just believe in informed consent, given all of the possible side effects and adverse reactions, what it has and has not been tested for, what happened during the early animal trials. Then the person can make up their own mind.

Bullying people to get a vaccine that has skipped the typically lengthy process of testing (average 10 years) is irresponsible, in my opinion.


To be acceptable into the trials you can not have ANY MEDICAL condition, must have perfect BMI, and perfect blood pressure measurements. 56% of the people who applied were rejected (Moderna).
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/record/NCT04283461
Here's the results of the perfectly healthy ideal 85 people:

Age 18-55: 71% OF PARTICIPANTS HAD AN ADVERSE REACTION

Age 56-70: 50% OF PARTICIPANTS HAD AN ADVERSE REACTION

Age 71+: 70% OF PARTICIPANTS HAD AN ADVERSE REACTION
https://www.icandecide.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Moderna-Combined-Production.pdf

 

[Jonfw2]

I believe the two scientists have a good point about more testing needing to be done. The link to their petition I posted is worth reading for anyone considering getting the vaccine. I just believe in informed consent, given all of the possible side effects and adverse reactions, what it has and has not been tested for, what happened during the early animal trials. Then the person can make up their own mind.

Bullying people to get a vaccine that has skipped the typically lengthy process of testing (average 10 years) is irresponsible, in my opinion.


To be acceptable into the trials you can not have ANY MEDICAL condition, must have perfect BMI, and perfect blood pressure measurements. 56% of the people who applied were rejected (Moderna).
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/record/NCT04283461
Here's the results of the perfectly healthy ideal 85 people:

Age 18-55: 71% OF PARTICIPANTS HAD AN ADVERSE REACTION

Age 56-70: 50% OF PARTICIPANTS HAD AN ADVERSE REACTION

Age 71+: 70% OF PARTICIPANTS HAD AN ADVERSE REACTION
https://www.icandecide.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Moderna-Combined-Production.pdf

Correct me if I’m wrong, but your link is to the Phase ONE study.

 

[tippity]

I believe the two scientists have a good point about more testing needing to be done. The link to their petition I posted is worth reading for anyone considering getting the vaccine. I just believe in informed consent, given all of the possible side effects and adverse reactions, what it has and has not been tested for, what happened during the early animal trials. Then the person can make up their own mind.

Bullying people to get a vaccine that has skipped the typically lengthy process of testing (average 10 years) is irresponsible, in my opinion.


To be acceptable into the trials you can not have ANY MEDICAL condition, must have perfect BMI, and perfect blood pressure measurements. 56% of the people who applied were rejected (Moderna).
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/record/NCT04283461
Here's the results of the perfectly healthy ideal 85 people:

Age 18-55: 71% OF PARTICIPANTS HAD AN ADVERSE REACTION

Age 56-70: 50% OF PARTICIPANTS HAD AN ADVERSE REACTION

Age 71+: 70% OF PARTICIPANTS HAD AN ADVERSE REACTION
https://www.icandecide.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Moderna-Combined-Production.pdf

From what I've seen the Adverse Reactions reported are: pain at the injection site, swelling at the injection site, fatigue, headaches, fever. All of these adverse reactions are pretty common for all vaccines since it's an autoimmune response.

Anaphylactic reactions can occur, but that's true with all medications.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

Both can be true. Any adverse events more than likely will not be able to be proven.

Stop changing your story. We know why you posted in the first place.

 

[DLgal]

Live Nation's president just said that they will not mandate vaccines to attend their shows, but they will honor whatever rule the venue or local municipality has made.

To be fair, a lot of that might be up to the performers themselves. They can set whatever requirements they want when they enter into a contract and the host (in this case, LiveNation) usually gives in if the act is a big enough star. I have a feeling many performers will set vaccine or negative test requirements or simply refuse to sign contracts. Some won't care, but the big money ones won't risk their livelihoods unnecessarily.

 

[mefordis]

Stop changing your story. We know why you posted in the first place.

I didn't know I had a "story". Let me help you, because you seem like you need a little help. People can be FOR vaccine safety and STILL be pro (some) vaccines. They don't have to be for ALL vaccines. Some are proven safer than others.

Do you understand that now? Read it again, if you need to.

 

[DLgal]

I believe the two scientists have a good point about more testing needing to be done. The link to their petition I posted is worth reading for anyone considering getting the vaccine. I just believe in informed consent, given all of the possible side effects and adverse reactions, what it has and has not been tested for, what happened during the early animal trials. Then the person can make up their own mind.

Bullying people to get a vaccine that has skipped the typically lengthy process of testing (average 10 years) is irresponsible, in my opinion.


To be acceptable into the trials you can not have ANY MEDICAL condition, must have perfect BMI, and perfect blood pressure measurements. 56% of the people who applied were rejected (Moderna).
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/record/NCT04283461
Here's the results of the perfectly healthy ideal 85 people:

Age 18-55: 71% OF PARTICIPANTS HAD AN ADVERSE REACTION

Age 56-70: 50% OF PARTICIPANTS HAD AN ADVERSE REACTION

Age 71+: 70% OF PARTICIPANTS HAD AN ADVERSE REACTION
https://www.icandecide.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Moderna-Combined-Production.pdf

Just stop. You are posting selective information that doesn't live up to scrutiny. Phase 1 trials are ALWAYS conducted on the healthiest subset of the population. We are on Phase 3 right now.

And every single vaccine has an adverse event profile. Redness at the injection site is an "adverse event." It just means "something more than nothing" was experienced.

 

[mefordis]

Just stop. You are posting selective information that doesn't live up to scrutiny. Phase 1 trials are ALWAYS conducted on the healthiest subset of the population. We are on Phase 3 right now.

And every single vaccine has an adverse event profile. Redness at the injection site is an "adverse event." It just means "something more than nothing" was experienced.

Are they now testing on unhealthy people? Show me proof of that. There isn't any. No heart conditions, no asthma. Let the information stand on it's own. Stick with the facts so people can make informed decisions and leave the emotions out of it.

 

[Jonfw2]

Are they now testing on unhealthy people? Show me proof of that. There isn't any. No heart conditions, no asthma. Let the information stand on it's own. Stick with the facts so people can make informed decisions and leave the emotions out of it.

the proof is me. I have high blood pressure, treated medically. Moderna wanted me because of that.

 

[wenrob]

You're right. No one can be made to get the vaccine. But I do think that businesses can refuse service to the "Unvaccinated by Choice" .

I'm hoping that the "Unvaccinated by Choice" will not be allowed on airplanes, cruise ships, and theme parks.

Not as a punishment, but because of their potential to spread the disease.
I keep remembering the Disneyland measles outbreak. It could have been avoided.

You know I somewhat agree. Proof of vaccination or negative results however many times within a certain time frame. I think wanting to do these things and it being a huge pain to repeatedly test will most likely push some folks toward the vaccine.

I think we all just want to get back to normal. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t have selfish reasons over the greater good. This time last year my BIL dropped dead out of nowhere at 53 and it has destroyed my sister. My DH is on the fence about the vaccine and I don’t want to find myself in my sister’s situation. So all I can do is give him the info I have and hope he comes around. I think he will, he knows that’s my fear. Plus, he likes his Metal shows and Hockey games. I won’t be offended if he chooses to do it because of that, lol.

 

[DLgal]

Are they now testing on unhealthy people? Show me proof of that. There isn't any. No heart conditions, no asthma. Let the information stand on it's own. Stick with the facts so people can make informed decisions and leave the emotions out of it.

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma...ollment-for-late-stage-covid-19-vaccine-study
There is a link to a PDF (look in the article for the words "full breakdown"). You will download a very helpful document from Moderna itself with lots of colorful graphs and pie charts that show all the age groups, ethnicities, and underlying health conditions for risk of severe covid that the people in the phase 3 trial had.

If you are going to ignore the article and PDF link, I'll give you the cliffsnotes version:

30,000 Participants:
63% white
20% Hispanic/Latinx
10% Black
4% Asisn
3% All others

Ages:
18-24- Approx 1600
25-44- Approx 8400
45-64- Approx 12,000
65 or above- Approx 8000

Risk factors for severe covid:
Greater than 65 years of age- 25%
Between 18 and 65 and at risk of severe disease- 17%
Between 18 and 65 and NOT at risk of severe disease- 58%

Comorbidities of at risk participants:
36% Diabetes
25% Severe Obesity
19% Significant Cardiac Disease
18% Chronic Lung Disease
2% Liver Disease

ETA: Asthma is no longer considered a risk factor for severe Covid. Asthma is largely a bronchial issue. Covid does not affect the bronchi, but rather the deeper lung tissue that handles gas exchange (alveoli).

 

[Heigh-Ho]

I didn't know I had a "story". Let me help you, because you seem like you need a little help. People can be FOR vaccine safety and STILL be pro (some) vaccines. They don't have to be for ALL vaccines. Some are proven safer than others.

Do you understand that now? Read it again, if you need to.

We may not agree with you you may not agree with us but the 'if you only had reading comprehension you would get it' bit is too obvious here.

I was referring to you feigning an incredulity to people discussing how an adverse effect was possible to know now. All of your other comments are in direct opposition to that. You opened this can of worms for an expressed purpose and now that's been uncovered. Your story did indeed change and yes you had one.

If you had started with your reluctance to get this particular vaccine was about the safety behind it the conversation would have been different, though if you posted the sources you did you can expect people to question the legitimacy to them. But no you started with this supposed dumbfoundedness that they could link infertility to a vaccine now when there wasn't going to be a way to prove it, then you added sources from questionable people, a spike protein, now you're going off into something else, you're like that picture they always use when talking about coronavirus spikes going off in all different directions. I may not agree with sam all the way but at least he presents his concern in a more outright way.

 

[sam_gordon]

Yes, there can't be evidence at this point. So why not just say" I'm afraid" and leave it at that? Why are people posting infertility rumors?

Because then people will say "what are you afraid of?" I had brought up infertility a couple of weeks ago. Not based on anything scientific and not because I actually believed the vaccine would/could cause infertility, just that's it's a concern of mine (as is cancer)

You know there are no vaccines that have reached the market this quickly. But over the past 10 years, there have been several attempts. Fortunately, the virus being targeted has died out before the vaccine was produced. One example is Zeeka.

That's my point. How do you (general) say "Well, no other vaccine has caused a massive problem", but not realize other vaccines had been tested for years before going out to the public. I'm guessing at least some vaccines made it to the last testing stage and didn't get distributed because of some problem.

 

[mefordis]

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma...ollment-for-late-stage-covid-19-vaccine-study
There is a link to a PDF (look in the article for the words "full breakdown"). You will download a very helpful document from Moderna itself with lots of colorful graphs and pie charts that show all the age groups, ethnicities, and underlying health conditions for risk of severe covid that the people in the phase 3 trial had.

If you are going to ignore the article and PDF link, I'll give you the cliffsnotes version:

30,000 Participants:
63% white
20% Hispanic/Latinx
10% Black
4% Asisn
3% All others

Ages:
18-24- Approx 1600
25-44- Approx 8400
45-64- Approx 12,000
65 or above- Approx 8000

Risk factors for severe covid:
Greater than 65 years of age- 25%
Between 18 and 65 and at risk of severe disease- 17%
Between 18 and 65 and NOT at risk of severe disease- 58%

Comorbidities of at risk participants:
36% Diabetes
25% Severe Obesity
19% Significant Cardiac Disease
18% Chronic Lung Disease
2% Liver Disease

ETA: Asthma is no longer considered a risk factor for severe Covid. Asthma is largely a bronchial issue. Covid does not affect the bronchi, but rather the deeper lung tissue that handles gas exchange (alveoli).

This is informative, I'll read it over when I have a chance. And I appreciate the civility.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Asthma is no longer considered a risk factor for severe Covid. Asthma is largely a bronchial issue. Covid does not affect the bronchi, but rather the deeper lung tissue that handles gas exchange (alveoli).

I actually had been wondering about that. Seems we didn't hear too much about asthma after a while. One of my sister-in-laws has asthma though it's not severe at all.