CDC Notifies States, Large Cities To Prepare For Vaccine Distribution As Soon As Late October

[Pyotr]

Which leads to the question what percentage of these people were tested due to presenting with symptoms? What percentage were tested via surveillance testing?

It’s the increase of tests at the colleges.

 

[Jonfw2]

Not if it is because more people are actually contracting and getting sick from the disease. I am all for doing as much surveillance testing as possible. As that is one of the ways to STOP the spread. Test and isolate.

according to Johns Hopkins, the rate of positive tests is the lowest it’s been since June.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I hear you, it's been a terrible ordeal for everyone trying to care for people, I can't imagine how heartbreaking it's been for caregivers.

I am up to speed with what you describe, the point where I am stumped is wondering why the market hasn't corrected itself yet? Market forces are swift and with so much pent up demand for a N95's and so many idle hands (out of work) not making money the market forces should inspire those idle hands to whittle away at these masks, creating the supply in order to earn until we get back to equilibrium. I'm not saying that supply should be taken from medical workers, I get that the new stockpiles need to be filled, what I am saying is there should be so many N95 manufacturing plants popping up all over the place that we are swimming in masks and rationing is unnecessary, really the same is true for disinfectants and such. The fact this happened yet is extraordinarily odd in a free market economy.

I understand what you mean. I just think that supplies were so backlogged that whatever new ones came along just filled in a lot of holes and leaders and administrators went all Rambo to try to fill their own supplies, which is why we still have some shortages. I don’t think that it’s that they’re not being manufactured. I could be wrong but taking this from the many things I’ve read about the issue (since it impacted me personally). ETA the world is a very big place with everyone vying for the same thing. I don’t think we’ve really seen the likes of this before; maybe a long time ago under different circumstances.

 

[godisney14]

I hear you, it's been a terrible ordeal for everyone trying to care for people, I can't imagine how heartbreaking it's been for caregivers.

I am up to speed with what you describe, the point where I am stumped is wondering why the market hasn't corrected itself yet? Market forces are swift and with so much pent up demand for a N95's and so many idle hands (out of work) not making money the market forces should inspire those idle hands to whittle away at these masks, creating the supply in order to earn until we get back to equilibrium. I'm not saying that supply should be taken from medical workers, I get that the new stockpiles need to be filled, what I am saying is there should be so many N95 manufacturing plants popping up all over the place that we are swimming in masks and rationing is unnecessary, really the same is true for disinfectants and such. The fact this happened yet is extraordinarily odd in a free market economy.

https://apnews.com/1295eae6f73d1870a23cb8e2cb66ad05
Besides raw material concerns, making masks also requires investment.

 

[LuvOrlando]

https://apnews.com/1295eae6f73d1870a23cb8e2cb66ad05
Besides raw material concerns, making masks also requires investment.

I read into this early on, a manufacturing device needs to be able to spin the material down into a fine enough thread and then weave it tightly enough to create the appropriate barrier to be called N95 so it's not easy. Still, if we have at home laser printers which can whip up just about anything how is it we don't have modified laser printers making masks? Fairly certain the masks are made from petroleum based material so a check for that too with domestic supply so it just doesn't compute. The only thing left is investment dollars that can come from loans, and this is a sure thing so it's still weird.

At any rate, it seems lots of people are getting vaccinated so fingers crossed this year we'll have less everything.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

From Medscape, outlining some of the complexities for N95s:


Hansa: Now what about those... There might be people wondering right now that, "Well, why manufacture it here when you can get these masks from China?" But recently, as you pointed out in an email to me, the United States pulled the emergency authorization use role, and it's now directing everyone to certain manufacturers. Is that going to be a limitation?

Dr Blum: Oh, that's going to be a huge limitation. We're talking now about the N95. The face shields, they haven't put any stops on anything coming in from China. But N95 masks, absolutely. There've been some scary statistics of people that have randomly tested these masks that they've gotten because a friend of a friend knew someone that had a connection in China and they could get you face masks or, "Oh, I've bought these face masks. I need 50% down." And this is what we call quote unquote, gray market purchasing of these face masks. And for a long time, a long time in COVID world, this was acceptable because of this emergency use authorization that said things like you can use KN95s, you can use masks that have fit this emergency use authorization, which is an authorization put out by the FDA that says, "Listen, you can use this stuff, but it hasn't gone through the rigorous testing that we typically have, but we're okay with you using it in this situation."

Dr Blum: It offers a little bit of guidance, it alleviates a little bit of liability, but what they were finding from a lot of these masks coming in from China is that they were counterfeit and they weren't meeting the N95 specifications. Their filtration ability didn't meet that specification. So for everyone out there, I think it's important to understand what that N95 actually means. Most people that are going to be listening to this are physicians so I hope that they understand that concept of an N95 mask has to tightly fit the face and pass what's called a fit test, meaning that when they spray saccharin or a bitter substance into a air hood and you go through a series of events, that none of that material is going to get through around the edges. You're not going to taste it, you're not going to sense it.

Dr Blum: That's great. That tells you only about the fit of the mask. So these N95 masks, these counterfeits, these ones that don't meet the filtration standards, probably could still pass a fit test so people are assuming that they're safe. The fit test does not tell you anything about the actual filtration of the mask. N95 stands for the fact that, well, the N stands for the fact that they're not oil resistant, but the 95 says that they're able to filter 95% of these small particles, these 0.3 micron particles. The only way to do that is through specific testing standards and a fit test is not one of them. So it really took people to take these masks and realize that the fit test wasn't enough to say that these were safe, send them off and have them tested in laboratories to realize that some of these masks weren't meeting that standard.

Dr Blum: Now we're in a conundrum because a lot of people were getting their face masks from these outside suppliers. I believe it was 60 suppliers that have now been removed from the FDA as being okay for purchasing from. I think the number was that it's down to 14 that are safe to purchase from, and we need millions, we need arguably billions, if these are being truly used properly. So then we have to start looking at alternative solutions. That's one thing that's one of the first projects I mentioned, our face shields were a quick win project, but our long term win project was the concept of, we need something reusable. We need a reusable N95 mask out there. So that's been our long play, if you will.

Dr Blum: We knew that we would never get this out to market in a month or 2 months, and even the concept of getting something out to market in 3 or 4 months is a huge, huge win because you have to do it safely. The consequences of not doing it safely are too drastic and too dramatic, and so we're working on this N95 project now.

 

[godisney14]

I read into this early on, a manufacturing device needs to be able to spin the material down into a fine enough thread and then weave it tightly enough to create the appropriate barrier to be called N95 so it's not easy. Still, if we have at home laser printers which can whip up just about anything how is it we don't have modified laser printers making masks? Fairly certain the masks are made from petroleum based material so a check for that too with domestic supply so it just doesn't compute. The only thing left is investment dollars that can come from loans, and this is a sure thing so it's still weird.

At any rate, it seems lots of people are getting vaccinated so fingers crossed this year we'll have less everything.

With enough money, I believe most things are possible. But, intricate and specific machines are not cheap.
Businesses up- and downstream do not invest in assets that they cannot envision providing a return in perpetuity.
As the article noted, where is that investment from the government?

 

[Pea-n-Me]

With enough money, I believe most things are possible. But, intricate and specific machines are not cheap.
Businesses up- and downstream do not invest in assets that they cannot envision providing a return in perpetuity.
As the article noted, where is that investment from the government?

It depends on what you read:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...186276-7f20-11ea-8de7-9fdff6d5d83e_story.html

 

[_19disnA]

^^ That article is from April and a lot has changed since then. Paying a premium for a product is different from the other prior comment about investing in tooling/equipment to expand the manufacturing capability of a product on an ongoing basis. Complex manufacturing capital equipment can have a leadtime measured in months (or longer).

 

[Pea-n-Me]

^^ That article is from April and a lot has changed since then. Paying a premium for a product is different from the other prior comment about investing in tooling/equipment to expand the manufacturing capability of a product on an ongoing basis. Complex manufacturing capital equipment can have a leadtime measured in months (or longer).

Yes, however in order to understand what’s happened, we need to know the history. Some of the articles posted seemed to have a short memory.

 

[sam_gordon]

Not if it is because more people are actually contracting and getting sick from the disease. I am all for doing as much surveillance testing as possible. As that is one of the ways to STOP the spread. Test and isolate.

More tests will ALWAYS be better. Ideally every man, woman, and child would get tested at least multiple times a week, if not daily. I say that and I haven't had a test. In my "ideal" world, everyone gets a test daily. The results need come back within hours if not minutes.

 

[disneychrista]

More tests will ALWAYS be better. Ideally every man, woman, and child would get tested at least multiple times a week, if not daily. I say that and I haven't had a test. In my "ideal" world, everyone gets a test daily. The results need come back within hours if not minutes.

I agree that we need more surveillance testing. That is the only way to catch asymptomatic carriers and isolate them.

 

[Kitty 34]

I agree that we need more surveillance testing. That is the only way to catch asymptomatic carriers and isolate them.

I haven't read a lot about the asymptomatic carriers so this isn't directed just to you, Christa, but how long do "we" isolate asymptomatic carriers? In other words are they only carriers for a couple of weeks??? I can't see isolating these people for much longer........unless of course there is a vaccine.

 

[disneychrista]

I haven't read a lot about the asymptomatic carriers so this isn't directed just to you, Christa, but how long do "we" isolate asymptomatic carriers? In other words are they only carriers for a couple of weeks??? I can't see isolating these people for much longer........unless of course there is a vaccine.

I know in my county when an asymptomatic person tests positive they isolate for 10 days from the date of the test the same as if one had symptoms and tests positive.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

Not if it is because more people are actually contracting and getting sick from the disease. I am all for doing as much surveillance testing as possible. As that is one of the ways to STOP the spread. Test and isolate.

Our way of testing is a lot different than it was in the beginning and even the middle. Unfortunately because of that it becomes very difficult to get out of that mindset. Even if 1 million people are tested and more people than the day before are seeking out tests because they have symptoms and thus are included in that 1 million amount it will still be better that we are testing them in the first place, that we have enough tests to test them. We need more 1 million days, we need months IMO of 1 million days (or at least high up there consistent numbers).

If we had bountiful supply this thought that more test completed could be in direct relation to more spread wouldn't be as prevalent. It isn't with other countries because they've had so much more supplies than we have. It seems to be highly related to the U.S. as a direct result of our testing protocols in the beginning. We primed so many people to want low cases and to get upset, angry and fearful at increase of cases and really just the idea that a certain amount of tests were conducted but it was often neglected to mention that these are about known cases and that there were a large number of people we couldn't even think to test. In some ways I wish we could have had the issue of it being opposite, where the supplies were so plentiful back in Spring and in early Summer at least so we could see the effect that had on our numbers.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

It’s the increase of tests at the colleges.

In August and into September there are for sure testing increases there and at the lower education level. If you have various colleges around having testing mandatory you're going to be conducting thousands to tens of thousands of tests multiplied by how many colleges are doing. I'm very thankful we have this capacity to even think to do this I just wish we had this capacity back in June when it seems many places were starting to really open up.

 

[Kitty 34]

I know in my county when an asymptomatic person tests positive they isolate for 10 days from the date of the test the same as if one had symptoms and tests positive.

And then that said person isn't asymptomatic or I guess I should say a carrier anymore??

 

[disneychrista]

And then that said person isn't asymptomatic or I guess I should say a carrier anymore??

After 10 days that person is no longer considered contagious.

 

[Kitty 34]

After 10 days that person is no longer considered contagious.

Thank you, Christie. I guess I could have just PM'd you. You are very nice to answer questions I apparently overlooked over these harrowing months.

 

[Jonfw2]

Great piece on NPR's website right now: one of the major reasons for better ICU outcomes (reduced mortality) is the doctors themselves. Worldwide, doctors are getting better at treating late stage patients and they now know what actually works to help people stay off ventilators and recover.