CDC Announces Modifications and Extension of No Sail Order for All Cruise Ships

[MomOTwins]

I feel like I keep popping up in multiple threads to say this, but the order does not say that U.S. cruises cannot sail for at least 100 days. It actually says the opposite--that the ban will end at the earliest of 100 days, OR when Covid is declared to be no longer a national emergency, OR when the CDC decides to end the order. DCL is not going to cancel for 100 days when the order expressly says it can end sooner at the CDC's discretion. I suspect 100 days was chosen because the CDC thinks cruises will be able to be up and running no later than 100 days from now and just doesn't want to have to keep renewing the order between now and whenever they decide to allow cruising to resume.

 

[KevinFL]

Temporary Suspension of Disney Cruise Line Departures
All Departures Through May 17 and Vancouver Sailings Until the End of June

So I guess they are going to keep stringing these cancellation announcements along in 4-5 week chunks rather than just canceling out through mid summer. We are scheduled for May 23 2020 7-Night on Fantasy so now we still have to remain in limbo.

 

[Dave006]

It’s not airborne

Yes it can be transmitted via the air. The most detailed testing was done at the University of Nebraska Medical Center (UNMC).

Here is a quick summary: Many commonly used items, toilet facilities, and air samples had evidence of viral contamination, indicating that SARS-CoV-2 is shed to the environment as expired particles, during toileting, and through contact with fomites. Disease spread through both direct (droplet and person-to-person) as well as indirect contact (contaminated objects and airborne transmission) are indicated, supporting the use of airborne isolation precautions.

Link: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.23.20039446v2

Dave

 

[smmco]

Yes it can be transmitted via the air. The most detailed testing was done at the University of Nebraska Medical Center (UNMC).

Here is a quick summary: Many commonly used items, toilet facilities, and air samples had evidence of viral contamination, indicating that SARS-CoV-2 is shed to the environment as expired particles, during toileting, and through contact with fomites. Disease spread through both direct (droplet and person-to-person) as well as indirect contact (contaminated objects and airborne transmission) are indicated, supporting the use of airborne isolation precautions.

Link: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.23.20039446v2

Dave

They are droplet precautions in the hospital.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

I feel like I keep popping up in multiple threads to say this, but the order does not say that U.S. cruises cannot sail for at least 100 days. It actually says the opposite--that the ban will end at the earliest of 100 days, OR when Covid is declared to be no longer a national emergency, OR when the CDC decides to end the order. DCL is not going to cancel for 100 days when the order expressly says it can end sooner at the CDC's discretion. I suspect 100 days was chosen because the CDC thinks cruises will be able to be up and running no later than 100 days from now and just doesn't want to have to keep renewing the order between now and whenever they decide to allow cruising to resume.

I think the 100 days is a legislative requirement thing.

Typically, an administrative law issued by the executive branch goes through a period of consideration and there's a time-window for the public to comment before it becomes effective as 'law'. Emergency edicts probably have to have a reasonable expiration date.

But I could be wrong.

 

[anjuan]

I feel like I keep popping up in multiple threads to say this, but the order does not say that U.S. cruises cannot sail for at least 100 days. It actually says the opposite--that the ban will end at the earliest of 100 days, OR when Covid is declared to be no longer a national emergency, OR when the CDC decides to end the order. DCL is not going to cancel for 100 days when the order expressly says it can end sooner at the CDC's discretion. I suspect 100 days was chosen because the CDC thinks cruises will be able to be up and running no later than 100 days from now and just doesn't want to have to keep renewing the order between now and whenever they decide to allow cruising to resume.

Agree with this. It does not mean that all cruises are cancelled through 100 days. It's through whichever of these actions comes first.

 

[Maggie'sMom]

If they base decisions on scientific facts, there is no reason to do so because of Covid-19. There is no evidence that the virus as gone airborne. Therefore, it does not propagate through ventilation systems.

There is significant evidence it is airborne. They've found it lingering in the air outside of patient's rooms. They've tested the air outside of houses where positive people live and found it. Tests have found it can survive in aerosol in the air for at least 3 hours. Which is the reason why guidance has changed on the general public wearing face masks.

 

[smmco]

There is significant evidence it is airborne. They've found it lingering in the air outside of patient's rooms. They've tested the air outside of houses where positive people live and found it. Tests have found it can survive in aerosol in the air for at least 3 hours. Which is the reason why guidance has changed on the general public wearing face masks.

We wear masks for droplet. If it was truly airborne like TB they would be in negative pressure rooms.

 

[lorimay]

Got my luggage tags yesterday and a cancellation email this morning.......

 

[smmco]

ClLIA put out a statement with some push back, but I couldn’t link the article.

 

[gotomu212]

I feel like I keep popping up in multiple threads to say this, but the order does not say that U.S. cruises cannot sail for at least 100 days. It actually says the opposite--that the ban will end at the earliest of 100 days, OR when Covid is declared to be no longer a national emergency, OR when the CDC decides to end the order. DCL is not going to cancel for 100 days when the order expressly says it can end sooner at the CDC's discretion. I suspect 100 days was chosen because the CDC thinks cruises will be able to be up and running no later than 100 days from now and just doesn't want to have to keep renewing the order between now and whenever they decide to allow cruising to resume.

That’s not normally how these orders work, they are typically set as short as prudent because they are easy to extend and because the assumption is that local governments and business will rely on them and make decisions. They typically are best case possible.
They always have the caveat that the issuer can amend or revoke them at their discretion because otherwise you lock yourself in to timing.

The public health emergency declaration opens up all kinds of funding and emergency order flexibility. It should be one of the very last things that will be rescinded because it provides a lot of flexibility to hospitals and public health departments.
Not to be a Debbie Downer, but wanted to provide some realistic context to how these federal orders are drafted and the rules around them.

 

[Maggie'sMom]

We wear masks for droplet. If it was truly airborne like TB they would be in negative pressure rooms.

They are putting COVID19 patients in negative pressure rooms when possible. The problem is they can't do that for everyone when they are overrun.

Very first line from the link below:

COVID-19 requires Airborne isolation and a negative pressure room.

https://www.nebraskamed.com/sites/default/files/documents/covid-19/COVID-procedural-areas.pdf

 

[Gentry2004]

They are putting COVID19 patients in negative pressure rooms when possible. The problem is they can't do that for everyone when they are overrun.

Very first line from the link below:

COVID-19 requires Airborne isolation and a negative pressure room.

https://www.nebraskamed.com/sites/default/files/documents/covid-19/COVID-procedural-areas.pdf

This. Also they don’t have enough N95s so they say droplets so they only have to provide surgical masks.

 

[smmco]

They are putting COVID19 patients in negative pressure rooms when possible. The problem is they can't do that for everyone when they are overrun.

Very first line from the link below:

COVID-19 requires Airborne isolation and a negative pressure room.

https://www.nebraskamed.com/sites/default/files/documents/covid-19/COVID-procedural-areas.pdf

They are putting COVID19 patients in negative pressure rooms when possible. The problem is they can't do that for everyone when they are overrun.

Very first line from the link below:

COVID-19 requires Airborne isolation and a negative pressure room.

https://www.nebraskamed.com/sites/default/files/documents/covid-19/COVID-procedural-areas.pdf

we only put them in negative Pressure roomS if they are on a vent.

 

[smmco]

This. Also they don’t have enough N95s so they say droplets so they only have to provide surgical masks.

That’s not necessarily true.

 

[ahen]

There are not enough negative pressure rooms in any hospital, they aren’t built like that. We had 4 in a huge ED, we have 1 in our 24 bed stand alone ED. We have 1 roll around hepa filter to use. Now I wait for my May 25 cruise on the Dream to be canceled.

 

[smmco]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cruiseradio.net/cruise-industry-concerned-about-new-cdc-order/amp/

 

[Gentry2004]

They have to get foreign ports to accept their passengers or it will be a cruise to nowhere. They will also need to assure their passengers they will be allowed to disembark at the end.

 

[DisneyWishes14]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cruiseradio.net/cruise-industry-concerned-about-new-cdc-order/amp/

Interesting read. IMHO, CLIA has zero leverage in this situation and the statement is more for public PR purposes than anything else. What are they going to do? Threaten to not cruise anymore? The US gov't obviously doesn't care. While it may be true the virus didn't originate on cruise ships, the implication that it doesn't spread on them if there is exposure is ludicrous, IMHO. And, obviously, it's much harder to get people sufficient medical care on a cruise ship. Personally, I think the order is reasonable. The cruise industry needs to step up and let the US know what they are going to do going forward to be self-sufficient in this type of situation and stop relying on US authorities to assist. I think if the cruise industry steps up and actually comes up with a reasonable plan, it would give their guests peace-of-mind as well. Who the heck wants to get stuck on a cruise ship with no port to disembark?

 

[icc2515]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cruiseradio.net/cruise-industry-concerned-about-new-cdc-order/amp/

That was a very amusing article. Carnival and RC saying they will remain closed until May 11th. I guess they are free to cruise whenever they please, but they are not going to pickup or dropoff in the USA. My guess is that will put a damper on their revenue stream. I notice that Disney did not chime in.