CCV vs RIV for Direct add-on

[KeithSS]

My brother has a small 25pt contract at SSR already that was left to him by a family member. He wants to add on to his contract to get more points and his families 2 favorite resorts are CCV and Riviera. He wants to purchase @175 pts direct. Does NOT want to do resale. He is impatient and wants to just call and pay for them and be done with it, have it all in the correct use year and be able to get the 2021 points for it as well. So he has narrowed it down to those 2 resorts and has asked me what my opinion is. I'm leaning towards telling him to go with CCV for a couple of reasons and just wanted to see if I was forgetting anything one way or another that I should be telling him and/or to also just get everyone else's opinion on it. My reasoning for recommending CCV over Riv is as follows:

1. He isn't really the best at holding on to things super long, and even though he isn't planning on it, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he was wanting to sell it in 10-15 years. I think the resale restrictions will hurt the resale of Riv in comparison.
2. The maintenance fees are a good amount higher at RIv vs CCV
3. The Point chart is much better at CCV than Riv
4. He's more of a relaxed "woodsy" kinda person and I believe overall the VWL is much more his vibe than Riv would be
5. I think the extra $25ish per point he will pay for CCV, he will get at least that much more for it than Riv if/when he ever goes to sell it.

Also, just for clarification I am not a Riv hater, I own points there myself, I just think for his situation that he would be better off with CCV given those are the only 2 choice of resorts he gave me.

Curious to see what any of your opinions are on the matter

 

[RoseGold]

Is he planning on selling the SSR? Mixing RIV with a resale contract that can’t book at RIV and is only 25 points sounds super annoying to me, and a good way to lose points.

If he wants RIV, I’d buy two 100 point contracts and then sell the SSR. Probably not a terrible idea for the CCV either.

I wouldn’t buy either myself. The RIV resale restrictions are a nonstarter for me, and CCV’s sold out pricing is too high. I do think there’s resale CCV that looks excellent, and I think it would be a good pick to hold for 10 years. If I were buying direct, it would be VGF, which is what I want to be selling in 10 years.

 

[CarolMN]

What size villa & what time of year does he usually travel? That should factor into your recommendation.

Studios can be difficult to book at CCV. This is especially true for September - Marathon week (early January). If he isn't someone who will book as soon as the 11 month window opens, CCV will be a frustrating option. The same is true at Riviera if he is planning on Tower or standard studios. The larger villas usually book more slowly.

FWIW, my advice is also CCV - for the more favorable point chart and lower maintenance fees. Both resorts are beautiful. IMO, it's best to buy the resort one loves, or at least the resort one wouldn't mind staying if other choices are not available at 7 months.

Good luck to you both.

 

[🍀TwinsMom]

What size family/group is he going with, and does he have a season he prefers? Is he tied to his kids'/partner's schedule for the next decade? We own RR and love it and want to add on at CC, but the CC rooms seem cramped to us, so we know we'd only want to do a 2-bedroom there, whereas the one-bedroom at RR is very spacious and lets the kids bring a friend or a grandparent. I think just the room size and lack of a 5th sleeper is the only drawback to CC, really, and maybe which parks are their favorites? Are they MK folks who do the parties and holidays and love the castle and princesses, or are they heading towards Epcot festivals and more thrill rides at HS? Those would be my only considerations, but both resorts are gorgeous and wonderful!

 

[RivShore]

. I think just the room size and lack of a 5th sleeper is the only drawback to CC, really, and maybe which parks are their favorites? Are they MK folks who do the parties and holidays and love the castle and princesses, or are they heading towards Epcot festivals and more thrill rides at HS? Those would be my only considerations, but both resorts are gorgeous and wonderful!

i was about to post the same - will the smaller capacity and size of CCV rooms make a difference and what parks are their favorites.

 

[Sandisw]

The only piece I will add is room size...RIV sleeps 5 and up in all categories but the tower studio. CCV is restricted to 2 bedrooms and up. That may make a difference for his particular situation when comparing point charts.

Also, time of travel. If studios are something he would want, they are difficult at CCV without walking during the fall. But, if the CCV is the vibe of resort you think he might like, and its one of his top choices, then I say its a good one.

Personally, I don't think the resale restrictions will be that big of a deal and so far, holding it's own. If more resorts come out with them, it won't be unique and that could help keep its value stable. Right now, CCV and RIV are pretty close in value when selling...

Most important, though, is the resort itself and if WL location and theme is more his style, that is a big one and sounds like CCV fits that bill nicely.

 

[SLThomas318]

We own at CC and really love the resort. We are a family of 4 so the 5th sleeper wasn't a factor and we've added on a few times because we realized we prefer 1 bedrooms (anywhere, not just CC). I def think it is important to buy where you want to stay so if CC is more his vibe then that would be the smarter buy. Whatever he goes with, he should def. break it into smaller contracts. Smaller point contracts sell quick on the resale market and usually for a few more $/point (at least currently... who knows what the future holds).

 

[havoc315]

My brother has a small 25pt contract at SSR already that was left to him by a family member. He wants to add on to his contract to get more points and his families 2 favorite resorts are CCV and Riviera. He wants to purchase @175 pts direct. Does NOT want to do resale. He is impatient and wants to just call and pay for them and be done with it, have it all in the correct use year and be able to get the 2021 points for it as well. So he has narrowed it down to those 2 resorts and has asked me what my opinion is. I'm leaning towards telling him to go with CCV for a couple of reasons and just wanted to see if I was forgetting anything one way or another that I should be telling him and/or to also just get everyone else's opinion on it. My reasoning for recommending CCV over Riv is as follows:

1. He isn't really the best at holding on to things super long, and even though he isn't planning on it, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he was wanting to sell it in 10-15 years. I think the resale restrictions will hurt the resale of Riv in comparison.

For various reasons expounded elsewhere and the actual existing evidence, it is unlikely that resale restrictions will greatly impair resale of Riviera. In 15 years, most properties will either be ending or subject to some sort of restriction. Regardless, any impairment in re-sale price would be smaller than the current difference in direct pricing.

1. The maintenance fees are a good amount higher at RIv vs CCV

Currently about 0.80 per point, future is hard to predict. Dues tend to adjust to a common mean over time. I wouldn't let $100 to $200 in annual dues be a deciding factor in a purchase of tens of thousands of dollars.

1. The Point chart is much better at CCV than Riv

Point chart isn't "better" or "worse." It's cheaper, because it's a cheaper resort. Just like POP is cheaper than Grand Floridian. Some will find CCV a better value, others will find the Riviera worth the extra cost.

1. He's more of a relaxed "woodsy" kinda person and I believe overall the VWL is much more his vibe than Riv would be

Then CCV would be the better purchase.

1. I think the extra $25ish per point he will pay for CCV, he will get at least that much more for it than Riv if/when he ever goes to sell it.

Extremely unlikely. CCV re-sale is currently going for about $10-$20 per point more than Riviera -- and CCV is sold out, with no direct incentives. According to some sources, Riviera re-sale pricing is actually HIGHER than CCV:

https://www.fidelityrealestate.com/blog/february-2022-average-dvc-resale-price-per-point/

When Riviera starts getting some ROFR action in the future, this will narrow the cap. (ROFR provides a floor for pricing.. right now, CCV has a floor, but RIV does not. This will change in the future).

Also, just for clarification I am not a Riv hater, I own points there myself, I just think for his situation that he would be better off with CCV given those are the only 2 choice of resorts he gave me.

Curious to see what any of your opinions are on the matter

He would be better off with CCV if he prefers CCV. He would be better off with another resort, if he prefers another resort. But speculation on future re-sale pricing doesn't really provide much of a rationalization.

Buy the resort you prefer. Full stop.

 

[wilkydelts]

Point chart isn't "better" or "worse." It's cheaper, because it's a cheaper resort. Just like POP is cheaper than Grand Floridian. Some will find CCV a better value, others will find the Riviera worth the extra cost.

Wow, that is some funny stuff

 

[dvc lover 1970]

For various reasons expounded elsewhere and the actual existing evidence, it is unlikely that resale restrictions will greatly impair resale of Riviera. In 15 years, most properties will either be ending or subject to some sort of restriction. Regardless, any impairment in re-sale price would be smaller than the current difference in direct pricing.



Currently about 0.80 per point, future is hard to predict. Dues tend to adjust to a common mean over time. I wouldn't let $100 to $200 in annual dues be a deciding factor in a purchase of tens of thousands of dollars.



Point chart isn't "better" or "worse." It's cheaper, because it's a cheaper resort. Just like POP is cheaper than Grand Floridian. Some will find CCV a better value, others will find the Riviera worth the extra cost.



Then CCV would be the better purchase.



Extremely unlikely. CCV re-sale is currently going for about $10-$20 per point more than Riviera -- and CCV is sold out, with no direct incentives. According to some sources, Riviera re-sale pricing is actually HIGHER than CCV:

https://www.fidelityrealestate.com/blog/february-2022-average-dvc-resale-price-per-point/

When Riviera starts getting some ROFR action in the future, this will narrow the cap. (ROFR provides a floor for pricing.. right now, CCV has a floor, but RIV does not. This will change in the future).






He would be better off with CCV if he prefers CCV. He would be better off with another resort, if he prefers another resort. But speculation on future re-sale pricing doesn't really provide much of a rationalization.

Buy the resort you prefer. Full stop.

Disagree with RIV resale being higher than CCV. Many, like myself have stayed away from RIV because of the restrictions. Resale there is limited to those who only want RIV and nowhere else. That is a limited market that makes it tought. I agree RIV resort is beautiful but the restrictions will most likely keep resale prices down.

 

[havoc315]

Disagree with RIV resale being higher than CCV. Many, like myself have stayed away from RIV because of the restrictions. Resale there is limited to those who only want RIV and nowhere else. That is a limited market that makes it tought. I agree RIV resort is beautiful but the restrictions will most likely keep resale prices down.

It's not an opinion question but I did misread the Fidelity report. As with most sources, it is reflected that CCV is re-selling slightly higher than Riviera. Which is to be expected as direct pricing is $35 higher at CCV than RIV. So with direct pricing $35 higher, you'd expect resale pricing to be similarly higher.

I bought Riviera 2 years ago -- I could recoup about 90% of my purchase price if I resold now.

I strongly recommend everyone buy where they would want to stay, especially when dealing with any of the 2060+ resorts. Wild speculation that resale at 1 resort may be 2% better than resale at another resort isn't worth considering.

 

[havoc315]

Wow, that is some funny stuff

May 2022 rack rate for a studio at CCV:

$537/$549/$592

May 2022 rack rate for standard studio at RIV:
$719/$802

If we are to look at point charts:
Studio at Copper Creek tonight, 16 points
Studio at Riviera tonight: 17 points

Value per point: At CCV, for a standard studio tonight, May 3, 2022 -- You would get $33.56 of value per point
At RIV --$42.29 of value per point.

And if we decided to throw in a tower studio at Riviera -- It's $521 for tonight, 13 points, for a value of $40.07 per point.

So actually, Riviera has the better point charts -- more value per point, objectively speaking.

But it has a heavy subjective component -- There are lots of people who like CCV more than they like Riviera. They might choose CCV over RIV even if the pricing was reversed. Then there will be those who believe RIV is worth the extra money (the cash side does book up pretty solidly), And then there may be those who like both, but would pick CCV solely because it is cheaper.

But objectively speaking -- if you are asking which has a better value point chart, the answer is Riviera. (more value per point). If you are asking which resort is cheaper (cheaper in terms of rack rate, translating into cheaper for points too), then it's CCV.

 

[RoseGold]

LOL. Sure. If you're paying rack rate for RIV, DVC sure looks swell.

 

[havoc315]

LOL. Sure. If you're paying rack rate for RIV, DVC sure looks swell.

For most of this year, cash guests have been paying full rack rate at Riviera. Though personally, I find rack rate absurd at every Disney deluxe resort. Though I’d rather pay $700 a night for Riviera than $500 a night for CCV, but to each their own. Ultimately, Disney *tries* to set pricing to match supply and demand.

 

[KeithSS]

Ya I def think there is a fair amount of subjectivity to the discussion for sure. I have laid of my reasoning for him and hes going to discuss the pros/cons of both with his wife and show her pics of both and make a decision. Both are beautiful resorts, which is why I have points at both myself. My Riv contract is only 50 points so I'm not super worried about the resale restrictions with that one. I'm just not totally convinced that Riv wont end up being the only resort with those restrictions and if thats the case having a much larger contract would worry me. Which is one of the reasons that I explained to him I didn't think a 200 point contract there was the smartest move if there is even a small chance of him wanting to sell it in the future. He mostly travels in the fall and will mostly be going for 2BR or the occasional 1 BR. CCV points will go farther in those scenarios also.