Catholic theology question

[beattyfamily]

Finding it increasingly difficult not to respond to these "explanations".

The Catholic Church, like most organised religions, is a business.
It exists to make money for its owners and senior managers, all of whom are male.
The Church make money by selling things; hope, pardons, peace of mind, promises, guilt complexes, anything that makes the customer put his hand in his pocket.
They need a large rolling customer base of naive and gullible people.
They demand their members have huge families to maintain the size of the customer base.

That is the reason why the Catholic Church doesn't allow birth control even though most of their strongholds are overpopulated, poverty stricken or disease ridden.

ford family

 

[6_Time_Momma]

Finding it increasingly difficult not to respond to these "explanations".

The Catholic Church, like most organised religions, is a business.
It exists to make money for its owners and senior managers, all of whom are male.
The Church make money by selling things; hope, pardons, peace of mind, promises, guilt complexes, anything that makes the customer put his hand in his pocket.
They need a large rolling customer base of naive and gullible people.
They demand their members have huge families to maintain the size of the customer base.

That is the reason why the Catholic Church doesn't allow birth control even though most of their strongholds are overpopulated, poverty stricken or disease ridden.

ford family

It cracks me up every time I hear someone actually believes this stuff.

 

[WDWHound]

Finding it increasingly difficult not to respond to these "explanations".

The Catholic Church, like most organised religions, is a business.
It exists to make money for its owners and senior managers, all of whom are male.
The Church make money by selling things; hope, pardons, peace of mind, promises, guilt complexes, anything that makes the customer put his hand in his pocket.
They need a large rolling customer base of naive and gullible people.
They demand their members have huge families to maintain the size of the customer base.

ford family

I am sorry, but as a participant in a organized religion, I can tell you that most of them are not about making money. I can understand you cynisism, but noit all or even most organised religions are like that. I attend annual conference each year for my denomination (Methodist). I know what money comes in and i know how it is spent. I am neither naive nor gullible, I am simply informed. I would never support an institution like the one you mentioned. I am sorry some church left you with such bitterness, but your appraisal of the situation is simply incorrect.

 

[JennyMominRI]

It cracks me up every time I hear someone actually believes this stuff.

Well,I was hoping for nice..

 

[ford family]

It cracks me up every time I hear someone actually believes this stuff.

It cracks me up every time I hear someone who actually believes their automated protestations carry any conviction.

ford family

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Finding it increasingly difficult not to respond to these "explanations".

The Catholic Church, like most organised religions, is a business.
It exists to make money for its owners and senior managers, all of whom are male.
The Church make money by selling things; hope, pardons, peace of mind, promises, guilt complexes, anything that makes the customer put his hand in his pocket.
They need a large rolling customer base of naive and gullible people.
They demand their members have huge families to maintain the size of the customer base.

That is the reason why the Catholic Church doesn't allow birth control even though most of their strongholds are overpopulated, poverty stricken or disease ridden.

ford family

Incorrect and Inappropriate assessment.

You pay tax dollars--those tax dollars pay for your government services that you as an American citizen uses on a daily, monthly, or annual basis. Services you don't use currently, you will someday.

Tithing is in the bible....very clearly. You should tithe--you should have a hand in building the house of God that you utilize in your worship.

I know my parish practice what it preaches (and it only preaches on it once per year )--they tithe on what they bring in. That money pays for your building, your parish staff, your priest (can't expect them to work for NOTHING--otherwise they'd have no way to live). And in return you get mass, ministries that get funded by the church to serve YOU, a room to have a prayer meeting, at my church you get reduced rates at the parochial school. Churches aren't funded by the federal govt...they don't just pop up out of thin air. The priests aren't rolling in the dough.

The diocese raises its own money (suggested 1% out of the 10% of your tithe) and I'm sure the Vatican raises it's own money. My parish doesn't write a check to the pope for the privilege of being a Catholic Church.

Additionally--100% of your tithe does not have to go to the church--the 10% is your total donations to anywhere.

Those who tithe do get rewarded--not necessarily financially. And you shouldn't tithe to be rewarded...b/c then you are doing it for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I am sorry, but as a participant in a organized religion, I can tell you that most of them are not about making money. I can understand you cynisism, but noit all or even most organised religions are like that. I attend annual conference each year for my denomination (Methodist). I know what money comes in and i know how it is spent. I am neither naive nor gullible, I am simply informed. I would never support an institution like the one you mentioned. I am sorry some church left you with such bitterness, but your appraisal of the situation is simply incorrect.

OUr church and our diocese provides an annual report so you can see what they did with the money.

 

[WDWHound]

It cracks me up every time I hear someone actually believes this stuff.

It doesn't crack me up. I understand it, in fact, I used to beleive it. The problem was, everytime I really investigated what went on in most organized religions, I found sincere people doing their very best to help their fellow man. Eventually, I had to come to the conclusion that the illusion of the greedy church that was created by the televangelists and some historical aspects of some churches was incorrect. Yes, the are those Churches that try to get all your money, but that is not the norm.

 

[simpilotswife]

Every Sperm Is Sacred Lyrics
Artist: Monty Python (Buy Monty Python CDs)
Album: The Meaning Of Life


DAD:
There are Jews in the world.
There are Buddhists.
There are Hindus and Mormons, and then
There are those that follow Mohammed, but
I've never been one of them.

I'm a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is:
They'll take you as soon as you're warm.

You don't have to be a six-footer.
You don't have to have a great brain.
You don't have to have any clothes on. You're
A Catholic the moment Dad came,

Because

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

CHILDREN:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

GIRL:
Let the heathen spill theirs
On the dusty ground.
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.

CHILDREN:
Every sperm is wanted.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

MUM:
Hindu, Taoist, Mormon,
Spill theirs just anywhere,
But God loves those who treat their
Semen with more care.

MEN:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
WOMEN:
If a sperm is wasted,...
CHILDREN:
...God get quite irate.

PRIEST:
Every sperm is sacred.
BRIDE and GROOM:
Every sperm is good.
NANNIES:
Every sperm is needed...
CARDINALS:
...In your neighbourhood!

CHILDREN:
Every sperm is useful.
Every sperm is fine.
FUNERAL CORTEGE:
God needs everybody's.
MOURNER #1:
Mine!
MOURNER #2:
And mine!
CORPSE:
And mine!

NUN:
Let the Pagan spill theirs
O'er mountain, hill, and plain.
HOLY STATUES:
God shall strike them down for
Each sperm that's spilt in vain.

EVERYONE:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite iraaaaaate!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It doesn't crack me up. I understand it, in fact, I used to beleive it. The problem was, everytime I really investigated what went on in most organized religions, I found sincere people doing their very best to help their fellow man. Eventually,m I had to come to the conclusion that the illusion of the greedy church created by televangelists and some of the historical aspects of some churches was incorrect. Yes, the are those Churches that try to get all your money, but that is not the norm.

Go look at the Crown Ministries website is what I suggest to people--they do a better job of explaining it...and it is even further detailed when you participate in the study.

 

[WDWHound]

OUr church and our diocese provides an annual report so you can see what they did with the money.

Ours does too, at both the conference and world level, but most people don't bother to read it. Part of my "job" at our church is to attend annual conference, get more detail about where the money went and were it will be spent next year. That way i can bring the info home to our local curch and make it more accessible.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Every Sperm Is Sacred Lyrics
Artist: Monty Python (Buy Monty Python CDs)
Album: The Meaning Of Life

 

[brerrabbit]

Right there with you Hound. At our church (which is Methodist) we see where every penny is spent. We have mission trips to Mexico in conjunction with Builders without Borders, are currently building out a cargo container as a mobile medical facility to be sent to the tsunami sticken area, and support many different local ministries with our donations. We see the effect of our donations and are encouraged to give freely and participate in the ministries as a way of living our beliefs. Unlike the televangilists our Ministers do not live oppulent lifestyles.

 

[ford family]

Our church and our diocese provides an annual report so you can see what they did with the money.

But they are not the people that are forbidding birth control.
They are just distributing the memos.
They are a cash collection point for the main board members.
Some may aspire to promotion to those higher echelons so they turn a blind eye to the graft and corruption.
The original question was why does the Vatican not allow birth control? The answer was, is and always will be; because allowing birth control is not in the best interests of the Vatican.

ford family

 

[WDWHound]

But they are not the people that are forbidding birth control.
They are just distributing the memos.
They are a cash collection point for the main board members.
Some may aspire to promotion to those higher echelons so they turn a blind eye to the graft and corruption.
The original question was why does the Vatican not allow birth control? The answer was, is and always will be; because allowing birth control is not in the best interests of the Vatican.

ford family

So are you saying that your previous comments only apply to the Catholic church and other churches that are against birth control? I would still disagee, but I would like to know how broad your statement was.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

But they are not the people that are forbidding birth control.
They are just distributing the memos.
They are a cash collection point for the main board members.
Some may aspire to promotion to those higher echelons so they turn a blind eye to the graft and corruption.
The original question was why does the Vatican not allow birth control? The answer was, is and always will be; because allowing birth control is not in the best interests of the Vatican.

ford family

You are very misguided. Birth control has absolutely NOTHING to do with money as was quoted earlier in the thread.

Your posts warrant no further response from me. Have fun digging a hole for yourself.

 

[ford family]

At our church (which is Methodist) we see where every penny is spent. We have mission trips to Mexico in conjunction with Builders without Borders, are currently building out a cargo container as a mobile medical facility to be sent to the tsunami sticken area, and support many different local ministries with our donations. We see the effect of our donations and are encouraged to give freely and participate in the ministries as a way of living our beliefs. Unlike the televangilists our Ministers do not live oppulent lifestyles.

Well your Church leaders may not lead the opulent lifestyle of some of their peers but your business model, as you describe, is still the same. All of this mission work is simply diversification to create new future income streams. Maybe your church "reinvests" more of its turnover back into the business than the Catholic church does but, don't forget, it is starting about 1800 years later.

ford family

 

[WDWHound]

Well your Church leaders may not lead the opulent lifestyle of some of their peers but your business model, as you describe, is still the same. All of this mission work is simply diversification to create new future income streams. Maybe your church "reinvests" more of its turnover back into the business than the Catholic church does but, don't forget, it is starting about 1800 years later.

ford family

So if a Religious organization helps the poor and sufferering, they are simply trying to build business? What if they didn't use raise money to help the poor and suffering? Then you would call them hyopocrits. When ytou start out with the assumption that the all churches are in it for money , you can get anywhere you want. Problem ism, there are no facts to back your assumptions.

Hmmm, maybe Churches are really just doing their best to serve God as a Church. That doesn't make them perfect. There will be some corruption, some people simply seeking power or money, but most organized faiths I have looked into really are about serving God, not the church itself, and that means feed the poor and helping the suffering. Yes, there have been times in history where this has not been true (especially with the Catholic church), but things change.

 

[chrissyk]

Incorrect and Inappropriate assessment.

You pay tax dollars--those tax dollars pay for your government services that you as an American citizen uses on a daily, monthly, or annual basis. Services you don't use currently, you will someday.

Tithing is in the bible....very clearly. You should tithe--you should have a hand in building the house of God that you utilize in your worship.

I know my parish practice what it preaches (and it only preaches on it once per year )--they tithe on what they bring in. That money pays for your building, your parish staff, your priest (can't expect them to work for NOTHING--otherwise they'd have no way to live). And in return you get mass, ministries that get funded by the church to serve YOU, a room to have a prayer meeting, at my church you get reduced rates at the parochial school. Churches aren't funded by the federal govt...they don't just pop up out of thin air. The priests aren't rolling in the dough.

The diocese raises its own money (suggested 1% out of the 10% of your tithe) and I'm sure the Vatican raises it's own money. My parish doesn't write a check to the pope for the privilege of being a Catholic Church.

Additionally--100% of your tithe does not have to go to the church--the 10% is your total donations to anywhere.

Those who tithe do get rewarded--not necessarily financially. And you shouldn't tithe to be rewarded...b/c then you are doing it for all the wrong reasons.

We have a priest who is like family to us. He runs a home for adult men with downs' syndrome.. The order that he belongs to keeps trying to shut down the home and sell off the (very valuable) land for their coffers. The home needs so much work, but our priest can't get the money to get it done. He is a good priest, but he's very much the exception to the rule in his order. The rest are greedy and no good. They have caused so much grief for our friend the priest. It's just terrible! I would NEVER tithe to the Catholic church. If I wanted to give, I'd have a new roof put on the house so that our priest friend and the boys would not have to worry about that anymore. If you give to the church, the money goes where THEY want it to, not to where it is really needed. That's been my experience anyways. Just one more reason that I'm now a "recovering Catholic".

 

[MrsKreamer]

Lisa Loves Pooh...
I am sorry that I misquoted about NFP. I was actually hoping you would find this thread b/c I knew you know more about it than me. I think it is a wonderful method. My Aunt and Uncle use it quite effectivly. They have two wonderful kids. I would like to talk to you more about NFP. I will PM you later.