Catholic theology question

[beattyfamily]

Boy ,I hope this thread stays polite

Me too!

 

[beattyfamily]

I remember asking my mom about my baptism once and she said she wasn't there. When my DH became Catholic and we were going through classes I ask why. I was told because women were thought to be "unclean" during the time of bleeding and since women bleed after birth, they did not go to the Baptism. Never thought to ask my mom if she had to go to mass during her period. Probably since you were not to talk about it back then. Well, not that long ago, I'm only 38.

This is also in the old Testement. Women were thought to be unclean during menstration and were banned from doing many things. But this is the first I've heard of Catholics feeling this way/doing this.

 

[JennyMominRI]

This is also in the old Testement. Women were thought to be unclean during menstration and were banned from doing many things. But this is the first I've heard of Catholics feeling this way/doing this.

Orthodox Jewish women actually bathe in a Mikvah after they have their period or give birth..She is considered Niddah for sevel days... Here's more
"And if a woman has a discharge of blood, where blood flows from her body, she shall be Niddah for seven days..." (Vayikra 15:19) The concept of Niddah is related to the word Naddad, meaning to wander, separate or remove. The Torah tells us that from the time a woman has her period, until she immerses in the Mikvah, she has the status of a Niddah. During this period, she separates herself from any sexual activity and physical contact with the opposite sex. What is the underlying reason for Niddah? Why does a woman have to separate from her husband every month? The laws of Niddah and menstruation are difficult to understand. They are statutes (Chukim) for which no reasons are given. Nevertheless, we may attempt to explore and uncover some of the reasons concerning the concept of Niddah.

UNLIKE THE TABOOS OF PRIMITIVE CULTURES

Some people may think that the Torah laws regarding the menstruating woman are similar to the taboos of many primitive cultures that attribute to her some "evil force". It is therefore important to highlight that according to Jewish law, ritual impurity is not exclusively connected with the menstruating woman. Earlier in parshat Metzora, the Torah mentions the laws dealing with a man who has a discharge. He needs to purify himself not only in a Mikvah, but in spring water. Furthermore, upon purification, he must bring a sin offering, as recognition for being healed from sickness. Rambam points out that this is not the case in regards to the menstruating woman since her period is a natural occurrence, and not a sickness. The definition of ritual impurity in the Torah is contact with death. The menstrual period is included in this category since it in fact is the expulsion of potential life. However the male semen, for the same reason likewise brings about ritual impurity. (See Rashi, shemot 19:15)

 

[Anne34]

I'm a 37 year old Catholic female and have never heard of a mom not being there for the Baptism. Maybe it is a cultural thing? Anyway, most Catholic people that I know use birth control, have vasectomies or have their tubes tied.

 

[mtemm]

I remember asking my mom about my baptism once and she said she wasn't there. When my DH became Catholic and we were going through classes I ask why. I was told because women were thought to be "unclean" during the time of bleeding and since women bleed after birth, they did not go to the Baptism. Never thought to ask my mom if she had to go to mass during her period. Probably since you were not to talk about it back then. Well, not that long ago, I'm only 38.

I'm 37, went to Catholic High School, and never once have heard this, even in past doctrine that we studied.

 

[HisEllyNelly]

I remember my former mother in law telling me that the Greek Orthodox church was also this way when it came to women/bleeding. If I remember correctly she needed to be almost rebaptised after giving birth.

I dont ever remember hearing about this in the Catholic church but then again I know that some Catholic churches are more strict than others so its possible.

 

[chrissyk]

The various threads going leave me with a question. Why does the Vatican not allow birth control.

I was raised super-Catholic, although I am not Catholic as an adult. The way that it was always explained to me was that no birth control=more little Catholics. More little Catholics grow up to give more $$ to the church and to have even more little Catholics (who grow up to donate even more $$ to the church) and so forth. I know very few people who actually practice Catholic birth control anymore.

 

[smoochie]

I was raised Catholic and still consider myself Catholic, but do not follow certain beliefs. This is one of them. So basically Im a hypocrit.

 

[babar]

I was raised Catholic and still consider myself Catholic, but do not follow certain beliefs. This is one of them. So basically Im a hypocrit.

Me too!! I feel everyone should be on birth control before marriage if they are having sex. Then certain situations would not arise where tough decisions have to be made....at least not as often.

I sort of adopt my own "catholic" religion.

edited to add: unless you are trying to have a baby....

 

[JennyMominRI]

Me too!! I feel everyone should be on birth control before marriage if they are having sex. Then certain situations would not arise where tough decisions have to be made....at least not as often.

I sort of adopt my own "catholic" religion.

<------------------- Stepping out of the Hotseat for the day so you two can sit down..Here,have a cinnabon muffin..It helps

 

[txSleepingBeauty]

Another question why was it that women who had given birth needed to get "churched" years agi before they could receive communion. They were considered unclean. Go figure.

If I'm not mistaken back in the day (and I mean WAAAAY back in the day, before the Reformation) women who died in childbirth or shortly thereafter (before they could get "churched") were considered unclean and could not be buried in consecrated ground. Not sure why, I think it goes back to Adam and EVE and the idea of original sin.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

The various threads going leave me with a question. Why does the Vatican not allow birth control.

Because one must always be open to life. They allow Natural Family planning as a form of birth control. They do not allow articificial birth control. Basically using fertility awareness and abstaining for a period of time if you do not wish to procreate.

BCP--some (not sure if it is all) pills are abortificants (sp?)--since life begins at conception...some pills do not necessarily prevent conception but do prevent implantation...thus aborting life.

Condoms prevent the little guys from attempting to do their job, so you are not open to life.

And all other methods kill (as in spermaticide--sp?) or otherwise obstruct the possibility of conception.

The church upholds that sex is reserved for the constraints of marriage....so if you abstain prior to marriage--then you are not at risk for STD. They don't condone sex before marriage and educate to uphold that belief.

The divorce rate of those who practice NFP is waaayyy significantly lower than those who don't practice NFP. This is due to a variety of factors that include increased communication and finding constructive things to do with one another other than sex when you don't want a pregnancy and signs indicate that you will get pregnant. The percentage is in the single digits of divorce.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

My understanding from my Catholic friends is that using contraception means that you are not "open to life". I never quite understood that line of thinking because several of my Catholic friends use NFP in order to not get pregnant so since they are actively trying to not have another baby I don't see how that makes them more "open to life" than someone like myself who does use "artifical" contraception.

I don't think I am going against God's will by using contraception. Surely God is powerful enough to override the pill or a condom if he really wants me to have another baby. I think I am just as "open to life" as my Catholic friends because I am willing to accept another child as the result of having sex even if my contraception fails. JMHO....

Think of it this way--the act is very intimate--you are accepting all of that person...except ewwww....that part. When you use a condom--that is effectively what you are saying. When you use female birth control--it is like saying you can't have all of me. You aren't open to life at all when you willfully obstruct a sperm and an egg from meeting. Simply obstaining during your fertile time is not obstruction....it is omission by abstanance which is permitted by the RCC.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

The Catholic religion believes that the sole purpose for sex is to procreate within a marriage. So if you use artificial BC (in or outside of marriage) defeats that purpose. You can use natural family planning. This method is almost as effective as the others. You document the tempeture changes in your(woman's) body which lets you know when you are ovulating. If you want to get pregnant you would specifically have sex at this time or if you don't want to get pregnant, you don't have sex at this time. I haven't used this method but I know many woman who do and are very happy with it.

It isn't almost--it IS as effective as the others...in some cases more effective. Other faiths practice this too--but it is called fertility awareness method.

Just like BCP or condoms can fail when improperly used--so can NFP...but when properly educated and properly executed--it works the same if not better than BCP or condoms while being open to life and with ZERO side effects.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Yes indeed. In fact, birth control pills, condoms, IUD's, etc. are all against the teachings of the Church. The only Church-approved form of birth control is the rhythm method . . .

INCORRECT--absolutely WRONG!!!!

rhythm method is no longer taught--it was based on a women's history...not the current symptoms. NFP is the current method and is formally called the Sympto-Thermo method...it is highly scientific and highly accurate and highly effective. You do not get 10 month gestation babies with NFP as happened with Rhythm.

(Quick--what do you call a Catholic who uses the Rhythm method?
Answer: Parents--ha ha ha....NFP, this does not happen--and when it does, it is b/c the couple thought they could cheat the system and not abstain the proper time...and get caught up with--well it was the X day after all--instead of waiting until the Y day as they had been educated).

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm a 37 year old Catholic female and have never heard of a mom not being there for the Baptism. Maybe it is a cultural thing? Anyway, most Catholic people that I know use birth control, have vasectomies or have their tubes tied.

Then they are sinning according to the church.

(Not judging them--that's just the fact of the matter).

 

[beattyfamily]

Because one must always be open to life. They allow Natural Family planning as a form of birth control. They do not allow articificial birth control. Basically using fertility awareness and abstaining for a period of time if you do not wish to procreate.

BCP--some (not sure if it is all) pills are abortificants (sp?)--since life begins at conception...some pills do not necessarily prevent conception but do prevent implantation...thus aborting life.

Condoms prevent the little guys from attempting to do their job, so you are not open to life.

And all other methods kill (as in spermaticide--sp?) or otherwise obstruct the possibility of conception.

The church upholds that sex is reserved for the constraints of marriage....so if you abstain prior to marriage--then you are not at risk for STD. They don't condone sex before marriage and educate to uphold that belief.

The divorce rate of those who practice NFP is waaayyy significantly lower than those who don't practice NFP. This is due to a variety of factors that include increased communication and finding constructive things to do with one another other than sex when you don't want a pregnancy and signs indicate that you will get pregnant. The percentage is in the single digits of divorce.

You explain it much better than I ever could! Thank you! That is why I relied on quoting a Catholic website.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I was raised super-Catholic, although I am not Catholic as an adult. The way that it was always explained to me was that no birth control=more little Catholics. More little Catholics grow up to give more $$ to the church and to have even more little Catholics (who grow up to donate even more $$ to the church) and so forth. I know very few people who actually practice Catholic birth control anymore.

That's a terrible way to have been tought.

Tithing is a separate subject---but the Bible does talk about tithing as well.

 

[KeeptheFaith]

I was raised Catholic and still consider myself Catholic, but do not follow certain beliefs. This is one of them. So basically Im a hypocrit.

LOL! Well at least you are aware of it and are comfortable with it. That is more then I can say for most Catholics

 

[ford family]

Please let's not turn this thread into bashing the Catholic Religion. To each his own right?

Finding it increasingly difficult not to respond to these "explanations".

The Catholic Church, like most organised religions, is a business.
It exists to make money for its owners and senior managers, all of whom are male.
The Church make money by selling things; hope, pardons, peace of mind, promises, guilt complexes, anything that makes the customer put his hand in his pocket.
They need a large rolling customer base of naive and gullible people.
They demand their members have huge families to maintain the size of the customer base.

That is the reason why the Catholic Church doesn't allow birth control even though most of their strongholds are overpopulated, poverty stricken or disease ridden.

ford family