Catholic School or Public School?

[my4kids]

AP classes dont mean anything because you dont learn anything different from students taking non AP classes. The only difference is that you get alot more homework with AP classes. A place of employment isn't going to look at your transcript and be like "I see you took AP french in high school as a sophomore so you will get the job"

????? Huh? You don't know what you're talking about. AP doesn't mean anything to employers (nothing from high-school does) but they count toward college credit at most colleges, so you are eliminating all the freshman basic requirements. They are HUGE for college.

Although to the kid that posted that I need to tell you, being fluent in french may help you in the workplace for an international company (not as much as Spanish would though) , but knowing Poe like the back of your hand is going to do you about as much good as being deft on a pogo stick.

 

[Christine]

I don't know if things have changed since the late '80s, but I have a very bad taste in my mouth from the Catholic high school I went to.

My rich grandmother wanted to pay for a "better" education for me than what she supposed the public schools were giving me. She'd heard that kids who go to public schools smoked pot and she didn't want me exposed to that. Understandable.

Sooo, I got on the waiting list about three years before I was supposed to enter nineth grade and was able to attend one of south Florida's "Schools of Excellence" . . . after a hefty donation to the parish in addition to tuition.

Well, I'll tell you, poor kids who go to the public schools can afford pot. The rich kids at the Catholic school can afford cocaine. And lots of it. I was exposed to and offered coke every day I went to that school.

Another thing that really bothered me was the whole "punishment" thing. In public school, if you do something wrong, you get a detention, maybe sent to the principal's office, a call to parents, suspension or something -- although my mother was beaten severely by nuns in the '60s at her schools. She still has scars from what one nun did to her with hot matches. They resemble chicken pox scars.

However, at my high school, if you did something wrong, you were expected to pay a monetary amount, or you wouldn't be able to take your exams. Just seemed to send a message that you can buy yourself out of trouble. Getting caught smoking, for example, was $20. Getting into a fight with another student was $50. Considering what all these kids were paying for eight-balls of coke at that time, $20 or $50 was nothing.

So I'd opt for home schooling, public if your schools are good, moving to another county with better schools or non-religious private schools before I'd ever send a child to a Catholic school. Especially with what's been in the news the last ten years or so with molestation.

As others have stated, these type of experiences are not widespread.

My DD was in public school last year for her 9th grade year. Now, let me state as most people probably won't do--my DD is a very "average" student. Average intelligence, a bit on the lazy side at times, but just your basic student. She is not gifted and she is not special ed. As a result, her public school couldn't give a load a crap about her. Talk about lost in the shuffle--oh my, it was awful. These "average" kids are the forgotten ones--at least in this county's public school. If you couldn't help their test scores, or if they didn't *have* to make special accommodations for you then you got NO help.

The student body at my DD's high school was close to 3,000 students. Sure, there were lots of drugs there, but there were so many different groups of kids that she could easily avoid this and didn't even really know who the druggies were, etc. The bigges issues/problems that we had with the public school were racial tensions--all day, every day. The second issue was lack of discipline and control in the classroom. Now, I'm sure that if you are a brainiac you can avoid most of these as you spend your days in classrooms where learning is the most important thing to those students. If you are average-to-above-average, you get mixed up with some of the troublemakers. My DD had 3 classes that were totally out of control, where they did nothing but socialize, and, oh, apply their makeup.

There was nothing I could do to stop this and I was just fed up.

I put my DD in a Catholic High School this year. This Catholic High School is not located in our school district, but up north a bit within a public school district that is one of the best in the nation (Fairfax County, VA). The test scores of her Catholic School (and this is SAT averages only) are on par with the surrounding public schools. No, the Catholic School does not do better than the public schools in that county but they certainly outscore the schools is *my* county. So, it is a step up for me.

The second beautiful thing about this school is the discipline. The kids *hate* it but there is total order in those classrooms. My DD has gotten one detention since being there. She was trying to enter the classroom as the bell was ringing. The teacher shut the door and 12 kids got locked out. They all served a one-hour detention. No we didn't have to pay money. Another girl got a detention yesterday for having her skirt too short.

I have to agree that there is *still* a drug problem. Catholic high school vs public high school makes no difference. My DD is actually more aware of the drug problem in this school because the school has only 1,100 students (versus 3,000). She knows exactly who uses drugs and what type they use. She said that in her larger public school, it just didn't seem so obvious, but I think that is because the school is so large.

 

[Bob Slydell]

????? Huh? You don't know what you're talking about. AP doesn't mean anything to employers (nothing from high-school does) but they count toward college credit at most colleges, so you are eliminating all the freshman basic requirements. They are HUGE for college.

As long as the classes are not in your major, that's usually true, but often, colleges will not accept AP credits for classes that are core courses for your selected major.

 

[princessesrule4]

my parents let me have the choice 2 years ago when we were picking my high school. It was Catholic or Public. Ive spent my entire life in public schools, its not my favorite place but i like it. My mom spent her entire life in Catholic schools and she really wanted me to go to Bishop Eustace (one of the top Catholic Schools near me) In the end I picked to go to Washington Township HS....the good ol' public school. While its not the best school, its a good school and most people think that because the school has over 3000 kids people think i have like 50 kids in a class. Really my largest had 25 kids, smaller than my friend's class who goes to Bishop Eustace. I chose to go to public because of the facilities that would further advance my carreer choice. One day i hope to work in communications as a director or be a broadcaster. Washington Twp. HS has a state of the art broadcasting facility that is a college level course. So for me, TWP was the obvious choice. My brother however, may be different. Our public school is NOT good for sports. With all those kids its hard to get spotted for scholarships and to be a star. He may go to Catholic, not because he doesnt like TWP, but because he could get a scholarship for say football,and it would be easier to be spotted at a smaller school. In the end it all depends on your child and their personality.

You sound wise beyond your years! Good for you - you sound like you made the best choice for you and your career path!

 

[Crankyshank]

Many schools also have a limit as to how many AP classes they will accept.

They also take into consideration if a school doesn't offer as many AP classes and believe me, they know. I have friends that have worked in admissions at schools in my area, including ivy league schools, and they make it a point to look into how many AP classes a school offers if they see a stellar student apply with only 1 or 2 AP classes or none at all.

 

[VioltePrincess]

As long as the classes are not in your major, that's usually true, but often, colleges will not accept AP credits for classes that are core courses for your selected major.

I graduated from high school in 1978, and took 2 AP exams. that translated into 12 credits -- 6 in English and 6 in history. I double majored in English and history (even though wound up dropping the double major and used Enlgish as my minor.) , and the credits "counted" . of course, I went to SUNY Albany, a state school -- the rules were different at private colleges, even then.

I've got two dd's in high school. (the same school I went to, BTW.) the school keeps pushing the kids to "take the AP" amnd/or the SAT II. they "sell" the AP to parents on the idea that the idea that it will save on college tuition, since the exams translate into college creidts.

and that's still true...in some cases. but not all.

what I'm finding out is that the SAT II in a subject matter may be just as important than the AP exam in that subject. both demonstrate profeciency and in many cases neither leads to college credit.

 

[schmitty]

Im not stupid, I know AP classes help you get into a better college but that doesn't make up for the fact they are pointless. You do learn the exact same thing in an AP class that you would learn in a non AP class, a different book doesn't make a difference. Just because you take an AP class doesn't mean you are smart. Colleges put way to much emphasis on AP classes.

 

[VioltePrincess]

Even though I voted puplic, based on my neighborhood schools, I just need to remind you that abusive a$$ J$%& teachers can be at any school. They can go undetected for years since their is never a supervisor in the class with them, no one is inclined to believe the student, and especially in public schools with tenure and unions, it next to impossible to fire them. I went to public school my whole life, and I can't count how many mentally, and verbally abusive teachers I had. My first was in 1st grade. In 10th grade the French teacher was so abusive he screamed in my face for about 10 minutes uninterupted ,red faced 1 inch from my face calling me things like "loser" in front of the whole class , because I did not have my homework. (My family was in a rough spot at the time, we were homeless for a short while and my father was in the hospital, and i didn't really share how desperate my situation was with anyone, because I was embarrassed. (That same teacher was eventually fired about 15 years later - I can't imagine how bad an episode it was over) My DH's high school soccer coach took the team to a strip club (including the 9th graders, and told them it would make them men, and don't tell their parents if they didn't want to get kicked off the team)

So just a reminder - Catholic schools don't have that market cornered.

there was a teacher arested for child porn not too long ago who was teaching at the Long Island School for the Gifted -- a private, nonreligious school. it happens everywhere, unfortunately.

 

[CPM]

Im not stupid, I know AP classes help you get into a better college but that doesn't make up for the fact they are pointless. You do learn the exact same thing in an AP class that you would learn in a non AP class, a different book doesn't make a difference. Just because you take an AP class doesn't mean you are smart. Colleges put way to much emphasis on AP classes.

Well, they do weigh more. My DD had enough credits to enter college as a sophmore. With her Bright Futures Scholorship, she will be able to work on her masters on the state's dime.
So, they are worth it. She also found that her AP and IB classes prepared her better for college. Classmates that didn't have these courses are finding their college classes more difficult to deal with.

 

[VioltePrincess]

Well, they do weigh more. My DD had enough credits to enter college as a sophmore. With her Bright Futures Scholorship, she will be able to work on her masters on the state's dime.
So, they are worth it. She also found that her AP and IB classes prepared her better for college. Classmates that didn't have these courses are finding their college classes more difficult to deal with.

my dd is a freshman. last year in 8th grade she took the 9th grade science class. this year she's taking honors biology -- it's NOT the same curriculum as the regular 10th grade biology, it's very much enriched with additional information. her teacher wants her to take the SAT II in biology -- she's one of the few honors students who the teacher is pushing in that direction. it will enhance her college application. and FWIW, the Siemens Westinghouse competition is a "big deal" at our school, we've had numerous semi finalists over the last few years -- all of whom took AP classes in their sophomore, junior and senior years.

 

[schmitty]

Well, they do weigh more. My DD had enough credits to enter college as a sophmore. With her Bright Futures Scholorship, she will be able to work on her masters on the state's dime.
So, they are worth it. She also found that her AP and IB classes prepared her better for college. Classmates that didn't have these courses are finding their college classes more difficult to deal with.

Thats a 1 person case. Im not saying they cant prepare you for college because they can, regular classes can prepare you just as well and they generally do. How hard you try. If you dont try and are in AP classes youll find college to be different. If you take regular classes and try youll find college a breeze.

 

[VioltePrincess]

Thats a 1 person case. Im not saying they cant prepare you for college because they can, regular classes can prepare you just as well and they generally do. How hard you try. If you dont try and are in AP classes youll find college to be different. If you take regular classes and try youll find college a breeze.

yes, but overall the better-performing students are channeled into the AP classes, which gives them an edge to get into better colleges, and, if they've used the opportunity given to them, a better foundation for the college material.

 

[CPM]

Thats a 1 person case. Im not saying they cant prepare you for college because they can, regular classes can prepare you just as well and they generally do. How hard you try. If you dont try and are in AP classes youll find college to be different. If you take regular classes and try youll find college a breeze.

It's not a one person case.

 

[VioltePrincess]

It's not a one person case.

yeah, but we're not going to be able to convince him of that.

 

[Spoodleink]

Im not stupid, I know AP classes help you get into a better college but that doesn't make up for the fact they are pointless. You do learn the exact same thing in an AP class that you would learn in a non AP class, a different book doesn't make a difference. Just because you take an AP class doesn't mean you are smart. Colleges put way to much emphasis on AP classes.

AP Classes are generally different then regular classes AP Classes follow a curriculum essentially set by the AP Test. I know my AP History class delved much deeper into the social and economic reasons for things than the regular history classes at my HS. Colleges place a lot of emphasis on AP classes because students who take them even if they do poorly on the test tend to do better in college. And if you think about it, it makes sense if you took AP Chem in HS and got a 2 which will most likely not count for credit then take Chem 101 in college you are familiar with the subject and experiments so will most likely do better than someone who took regular Chem in HS. In the past only the "best" kids were allowed to take AP classes (I know for me you had have been in the Honors level track of that subject or have your A level teacher recommend you to take an AP class) But many public and private schools are encouraging more and more students take AP classes not necessarily for the college credits (the 18 I got saved me several thousand dollars and a semester in school even though most had NOTHING to do with my major in college) but for the experience it gives the student ie a higher expected level of effort and understanding that will help them in college . They are really not pointless and they are actually a good predictor of college success.

I am a product of religious private school (k-3) and public school (4-12). We went to private for small class size for me 5 kidsin K and about 10 after that. We were put in Public school b/c they had resources our private one just didn’t have that my parents felt we needed. As others have said there are horrible and fantastic public and private schools. Where I grew up public schools were solidly good not great but good. There was one HORRRIBLE Catholic schools where many of the kids that were kicked out of surrounding districts would end up at and one that was amazingly good that was quite hard to get into. It really depends on the options open to you. I live in one of the best school districts in the country so I would send my kids to the public schools here but if the schools sucked I would sent them somewhere else in a second.

 

[VioltePrincess]

AP Classes are generally different then regular classes AP Classes follow a curriculum essentially set by the AP Test. I know my AP History class delved much deeper into the social and economic reasons for things than the regular history classes at my HS. Colleges place a lot of emphasis on AP classes because students who take them even if they do poorly on the test tend to do better in college. And if you think about it, it makes sense if you took AP Chem in HS and got a 2 which will most likely not count for credit then take Chem 101 in college you are familiar with the subject and experiments so will most likely do better than someone who took regular Chem in HS. In the past only the "best" kids were allowed to take AP classes (I know for me you had have been in the Honors level track of that subject or have your A level teacher recommend you to take an AP class) But many public and private schools are encouraging more and more students take AP classes not necessarily for the college credits (the 18 I got saved me several thousand dollars and a semester in school even though most had NOTHING to do with my major in college) but for the experience it gives the student ie a higher expected level of effort and understanding that will help them in college . They are really not pointless and they are actually a good predictor of college success.

I am a product of religious private school (k-3) and public school (4-12). We went to private for small class size for me 5 kidsin K and about 10 after that. We were put in Public school b/c they had resources our private one just didn’t have that my parents felt we needed. As others have said there are horrible and fantastic public and private schools. Where I grew up public schools were solidly good not great but good. There was one HORRRIBLE Catholic schools where many of the kids that were kicked out of surrounding districts would end up at and one that was amazingly good that was quite hard to get into. It really depends on the options open to you. I live in one of the best school districts in the country so I would send my kids to the public schools here but if the schools sucked I would sent them somewhere else in a second.

granted, it's been many years since I was a student, but I have to agree with your assessment of the AP classes.

years ago, when I was in high school, I took American History in 11th grade, and AP American History in 12th grade. the AP course was not a repitition of the regular course. it was much more in depth. when I got to college, I took intro to European hisotry (since I didn't take the AP exam in that subject) and found that the AP class was on the same level as the college class.

my older dd is in 11th grade. now the kids can take the AP course instead of the "regular" class. my dd is in the "regular" class. I looked at her textbook and I looked at the materials the teacher uses to supplement the text. it is NOT on the same level as the AP class.

 

[Bob Slydell]

How did this mutate into a debate about the merit of AP classes?

For the record, I went to a Catholic high school that offered a number of AP classes along with the IB curriculum. Many Catholic high schools offer AP classes, that's not something that's limited to public high schools.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

yes, but overall the better-performing students are channeled into the AP classes, which gives them an edge to get into better colleges, and, if they've used the opportunity given to them, a better foundation for the college material.

I had only 2 AP classes..one I got a 2 on the exam that I am sure UF (who at the time and presently has a tough admissions process) was thoroughly impressed.

The other I got a 5 on the exam...but that was well after I had gotten accepted.

I don't think it gives them an edge any more than any other student other than it inflates the GPA. I child can make it into University without all those AP credits.

I was given the option of AP or dual enrollment for a course my senior year. I chose the latter b/c I didn't have to take a test making me worthy of college credit. It was a college class mandatory for students in the state University system.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Well, they do weigh more. My DD had enough credits to enter college as a sophmore. With her Bright Futures Scholorship, she will be able to work on her masters on the state's dime.
So, they are worth it. She also found that her AP and IB classes prepared her better for college. Classmates that didn't have these courses are finding their college classes more difficult to deal with.

If this is Florida--she could have also done dual enrollment, still gotten Bright Futures and still be studying on the state's dime. She would have also had an actual GPA as opposed to just credits exempting her from coursewokr and she would have been done just as well.

Just my $.02.

I found my college history classes MUCH easier than my AP American History class. MOstly b/c I could enjoy the history rather than tensing up over that test at the end of the year that regardless of my grade is what determines whether the school accepts my credits.

 

[schmitty]

It's not a one person case.

Yes it is. You said your daughter performed better because she took AP classes.