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Not denying that at all. Just saying the mandate does not allow a worker to refuse health care, and then work more hours-or does it?

Of course not...then they would all abuse it.

There's a fundamental issue here: will your boss try to screw you and the system if they are given leeway?

Check history for the answer to that question...
 
Of course not...then they would all abuse it.

There's a fundamental issue here: will your boss try to screw you and the system if they are given leeway?

Check history for the answer to that question...

They don't have to-the mandate does it for them.
 
Not denying that at all. Just saying the mandate does not allow a worker to refuse health care, and then work more hours-or does it?

Yes actually it does.

If you already have healthcare you can refuse additional healthcare without any penalties at all. If you don't have any there is a fine you have to pay but you can refuse the healthcare.
 
They don't have to-the mandate does it for them.

Oh no it does not...

Noted tree huggers Harry Truman, Eisenhower, LBJ, and Nixon all suggested extending medicare to everyone...Truman went on the radio...hell, Nixon went on tv!

The problem with many Americans is that they don't bother to learn their own history...instead they chase semantic bones like labs...


Ahh well...enough of us sitting on the ground and telling sad stories of the death of kings...
 

Oh no it does not...

Noted tree huggers Harry Truman, Eisenhower, LBJ, and Nixon all suggested extending medicare to everyone...Truman went on the radio...hell, Nixon went on tv!

The problem with many Americans is that they don't bother to learn their own history...instead they chase semantic bones like labs...


Ahh well...enough of us sitting on the ground and telling sad stories of the death of kings...


My point is they (companies) don't need legal excuses in their arsenals.
 
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Yes actually it does.

If you already have healthcare you can refuse additional healthcare without any penalties at all. If you don't have any there is a fine you have to pay but you can refuse the healthcare.

Really? So they can refuse health care and work 40 hours a week, and health care does not have to be offered then?
 
Completely incorrect and one of the worst mis perceptions in American history.

What Disney did...publically for PR...is bump the hours of the 20 something's up to 30 so they qualified before the mandate kicked in.

That's nice...
But what it's really says is "we
Just increased the minimum ON OUR OWN and will pocket lots or overhead cash longterm.

My wife worked for a company that had excellent medical for an average of 17.3 hours per week. got a letter last fall saying "inline with the AHCA; were increasing the minimum to 30 and giving you $500"

Oh...you mean your shaving 28% of your workforce off medical and pocketing a nice number in 8 figures or more?

What it said was that you had to give healthcare at 30...it said nothing about cut out existing policies for those under.

Starbucks...in a brilliant or move...ate $50 mil in costs under the 30 hour threshold and their CFO is out there making it a morale argument. Think their profits went down this year? Nope.

This is not the political...it's the fact. But the spin machine has mucked it up.

I think I just became a serious LOL fan.
 
Really? So they can refuse health care and work 40 hours a week, and health care does not have to be offered then?

No, healthcare must be offered to them but they can refuse it. You don't have to get your healthcare via work. They can use their spouses healthcare, or just sign up to a plan as an individual or use one of he state ones (depending on where they are) or they can chose not to get healthcare and pay the fine.

The mandate does not force people to take a companies healthcare regardless of number of hours worked.
 
No, healthcare must be offered to them but they can refuse it. You don't have to get your healthcare via work. They can use their spouses healthcare, or just sign up to a plan as an individual or use one of he state ones (depending on where they are) or they can chose not to get healthcare and pay the fine.

The mandate does not force people to take a companies healthcare regardless of number of hours worked.

Yea I thought it had to be offered.
 
Huh?

Did you read what I wrote?
Do you understand the metrics?

It wasn't a political discussion. It was pointing out corporations taking a legislative action and turning it on its ear for profits. That's not even debatable in what I was describing.

Yes I did read what you wrote and I wholeheartedly think you are taking the most simple view of the situation. The new law laid out the plan for these things to happen, most believe it was predicated on the fact that the higher end employers would defer to the government to manage your healthcare. They just didn't expect the majority job providers, the ones that have less than 10 employees to start going under thanks to the new laws. I am on the side that negotiates each year with the insurance companies about what coverage we can provide and no the companies aren't the evil profit gremlins that you point them out to be. I could educate you on the process and why your comments show naivete , but this isn't the place for that. Suffice it to say I humbly disagree. No harm meant. Cheers!
 
Yes I did read what you wrote and I wholeheartedly think you are taking the most simple view of the situation. The new law laid out the plan for these things to happen, most believe it was predicated on the fact that the higher end employers would defer to the government to manage your healthcare. They just didn't expect the majority job providers, the ones that have less than 10 employees to start going under thanks to the new laws. I am on the side that negotiates each year with the insurance companies about what coverage we can provide and no the companies aren't the evil profit gremlins that you point them out to be. I could educate you on the process and why your comments show naivete , but this isn't the place for that. Suffice it to say I humbly disagree. No harm meant. Cheers!

It was specific to the scenario I pointed out: a company distorting a law that required nothing of them as an opportunity to shave benefits and make more money.

Pretty cut and dry.
 
It was specific to the scenario I pointed out: a company distorting a law that required nothing of them as an opportunity to shave benefits and make more money.

Pretty cut and dry.
As I stated this isn't the forum. We shall simply disagree. So cheers, how about them dolewhips?
 
Oh no it does not...

Noted tree huggers Harry Truman, Eisenhower, LBJ, and Nixon all suggested extending medicare to everyone...Truman went on the radio...hell, Nixon went on tv!

The problem with many Americans is that they don't bother to learn their own history...instead they chase semantic bones like labs...


Ahh well...enough of us sitting on the ground and telling sad stories of the death of kings...

We have Universal Healthcare or "Medicare for everyone", and you know... We're doing pretty good up here lol.
 
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug/08/opinion/la-oe-dalrymple-british-health-system-20120808

In April, the British Medical Journal published an article about two studies conducted by the New York-based Commonwealth Fund. The studies compared the healthcare systems of 14 advanced countries, and on the 20 measures of comparison,Britain'scentralized National Health Service performed well in 13, indifferently in two and badly in five.

On several measures, the NHS came out the worst of all the systems examined. For example, it ranked worst for five-year survival rates in cervical, breast and colon cancers. It was also worst for 30-day mortality rates after admission to a hospital for either hemorrhagic or ischemic stroke. On only one clinical measure was it best: the avoidance of amputation of the foot in diabetic gangrene.

This hardly seems like a cause for national rejoicing, yet according to the report, the British were the most satisfied with their healthcare of all the populations surveyed. They were the most confident that in the event of illness, they would receive the best and most up-to-date treatment; and they were the least worried that their personal finances would prevent them from receiving proper treatment.

What Britain's 'lousy' NHS does better than America's system

So, how is it that the population most confident that it will receive treatment of the highest possible standard, featuring the latest medical advances, actually has the worst survival rates in precisely those diseases that require the most up-to-date treatments?

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One explanation is ignorance. The average Briton or Swede is unlikely to know that the five-year survival rate for colorectal cancer is 51.6% in Britain but 59.8% in Sweden, or that the 30-day fatality rates for myocardial infarction in those two countries are 6.3% and 2.9%, respectively. (The figures for the United States are 65.5% and 5.1%.) By contrast, the average Briton knows that if he suffers a heart attack, he will be taken to the hospital and connected to a lot of machines, from which he concludes that he is having the best possible treatment.

In my youth, I often heard the refrain that the NHS was "the envy of the world," and people in Britain are still inclined to believe that, even though they probably have never met anyone who envied the NHS and, indeed, probably know Continental Europeans residing in Britain who hurry home as soon as they require medical treatment, horrified by the prospect of subjecting themselves to a British hospital.

That said, there are some strengths the system can claim. Medical care is coordinated, for example, by means of a universal (and compulsory) system of family doctors. The lack of such coordination in the United States leads not only to a high rate of medical error but to duplication of effort. The American rate of polypharmacy (the taking of four or more medicines daily) is twice the British rate. This difference is unlikely to reflect genuine need; the American polypharmacy rate is also 21/2 times the Swiss rate, and whatever one might think of British medical care, few would impugn the quality of care in Switzerland.

Traditionally, the NHS has been inexpensive compared with most healthcare systems. But this reality is changing quickly. The NHS was inexpensive in part because it rationed care by means of long waiting lists. I once had a patient who had waited seven years for a hernia operation. The surgery was repeatedly postponed so that a more urgent one might be performed.

Such rationing has become increasingly unacceptable to the population. This was the ostensible reason for the Labor government's doubling of healthcare spending from 1997 to 2007. To achieve this end, the government used borrowed money and thereby helped bring about our current economic crisis. Waiting times for operations and other procedures fell, but they will probably rise again as economic necessity forces the government to retrench.

But the principal damage that the NHS inflicts is intangible. Like any centralized healthcare system, it spreads the notion of entitlement, a powerful solvent of human solidarity. Moreover, the entitlement mentality has a tendency to spread over the whole of human life, creating a substantial number of disgruntled ingrates.
 
Very detailed description and a pleasure to read. Thank you.

My American gift of oversimplification is this:

Our private Health insurance companies and pharma reap gigantic profits to fat cat execs and stock holders...who then take a portion of that money to flood congressional candidates with money that largely is spent to safeguard their patents and products - which resist change from the profitable status quo even if antiquated.

And the American medical association is the biggest lobby on one side of the isle...while the American bar associations are on the other...

Neither is interested in policy that provides "affordable health care"
 















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