Cash availability but no DVC availability

[squirk]

I know this is a long-standing issue with DVC, but one I've never had to deal with until now.

I am taking a DCL cruise next month, and have a stray 76 points that I must use by the end of next month as well. Rather than let the points go to waste, I want to use them for the night prior to my cruise embarkation date. I really don't care where I stay; I just need at least two bedrooms.

Nothing is available on the DVC website (I even tried looking for two separate studios), so I wait-listed SS and OKW, and made "back-up" reservations at the Doubletree in Cocoa Beach.

I looked on the regular WDW site today, and sure enough, both of my waitlisted rooms are available right now for booking with cash.

So I have two questions:

1.) What do you suppose the odds are of one of my waitlists being fulfilled if these cash options don't fill up?

2.) Can someone please explain to me the dynamics of why I can't book at a DVC resort, and cash customers can? I am sure it involves point allocation among the resorts and DVC releasing inventory (possibly inventory they know won't be used by DVC members) to the general public, but it's frustrating to see nonetheless.

Thank you!

 

[chalee94]

You could do a search for more details, but for one example: if I trade my pts for a cruise, DVC would have to pay cash to the Disney cruise division. To get the cash, DVC would have to use my pts to rent a reservation. So if that is the inventory that you are looking at, that reservation was already booked with pts and is not available to be booked again with pts - since (as stated ) DVC needs to turn my pts into cash.

If your dates aren't available because DVC pulled the "breakage" leftover inventory into the cash pool, then it might be possible to pull it back into the points pool... It just depends.

 

[erionm]

The developer (DVD) retains ownership of a small percentage of points at each resort. DVD get points back from foreclosure, ROFR, etc. DVD also owns points from units not yet declared into the condo association (I believe only PVB at WDW has undeclared units). DVD can convert these points into rooms and give them to CRO to reserve.

 

[squirk]

You could do a search for more details, but for one example: if I trade my pts for a cruise, DVC would have to pay cash to the Disney cruise division. To get the cash, DVC would have to use my pts to rent a reservation. So if that is the inventory that you are looking at, that reservation was already booked with pts and is not available to be booked again with pts - since (as stated ) DVC needs to turn my pts into cash.

If your dates aren't available because DVC pulled the "breakage" leftover inventory into the cash pool, then it might be possible to pull it back into the points pool... It just depends.

Thanks. That leaves me wondering what the tipping point is to pull rooms back into "points" inventory, especially when you know you have members wait-listing one of said rooms. It would be really frustrating to see one or both villas left empty for the night and my wait-list request unfulfilled.

 

[DisneyNutMary]

I'm in the same boat as you. I have one night at the end of my stay waitlisted as it's the night of the DVC member party and when I booked this trip that night was unavailable.
I booked a room at POFQ for the night, but studios still show available for cash at a few resorts, which is killing me. I wish those studios would just fall into point inventory and get me off the waiting list.

 

[erionm]

Thanks. That leaves me wondering what the tipping point is to pull rooms back into "points" inventory, especially when you know you have members wait-listing one of said rooms. It would be really frustrating to see one or both villas left empty for the night and my wait-list request unfulfilled.

Rooms turned are over to DRC because they were unreserved at 60 days (or less) from check-in can be pulled back with DRC approval.

Rooms from members trading outside of the DVC system can't be pulled back because technically those rooms are already reserved on points.

 

[n2mm]

Also cruising next month but have managed to get rooms. I found myself checking the ms site often. Boy, the availability changes so quickly. Keep checking. I find the most changes occur between lunch time to late evening. I managed 2 nights before and 2 nights after the cruise. The after cruise runs into prez weekend. I tried waitlisting. That didn't work. Easier to grab something when it pops up. you need to check the website often. Good luck

 

[supersnoop]

Can someone please explain to me the dynamics of why I can't book at a DVC resort, and cash customers can?

You can book what owners own. If another owner trades out, then Disney gets to use that room.

 

[disneynutz]

Thanks. That leaves me wondering what the tipping point is to pull rooms back into "points" inventory, especially when you know you have members wait-listing one of said rooms. It would be really frustrating to see one or both villas left empty for the night and my wait-list request unfulfilled.

Disney has a group that controls room inventory and their job is to get as much money for the rooms as they can. Once rooms are turned over to cash inventory, the only way to get them back is if Disney doesn't feel that they can rent them for cash. In addition, DVC owns some of the rooms and they have points in inventory due to foreclosures, they often rent those for cash.

Bill

 

[crisi]

Thanks. That leaves me wondering what the tipping point is to pull rooms back into "points" inventory, especially when you know you have members wait-listing one of said rooms. It would be really frustrating to see one or both villas left empty for the night and my wait-list request unfulfilled.

Never if they aren't DVC owned rooms- they aren't owned by DVC if the case is that those points are owned by DVD or have been sold to Disney's other divisions to pay for trading options. Its like wondering why you can't use the car you sold to your neighbor's teenager because it happens to be sitting in his driveway. Because you don't own it and it doesn't matter if he isn't using it.

 

[LisaS]

Call MS. If it's possible to pull a room back for you, that won't happen if you are trying to book online, you have to call.

As n2mm said, stalk the online booking site in case someone cancels the date you need. Even though you are on the wait list, people sometimes find their nights available online before the wait list process runs and scoops them up.

Members on the fence about whether to cancel their trip will want to do so 31 days out to avoid having their points go into holding so there might be some rooms for the night you need released into inventory around that time.

 

[squirk]

Its like wondering why you can't use the car you sold to your neighbor's teenager because it happens to be sitting in his driveway. Because you don't own it and it doesn't matter if he isn't using it.

I see what you are saying, and not to strain the analogy, but the critical difference here is that I never chose to sell the car to my neighbor's kid. DVC did that on their own to, as you said, preserve trading options or monetize defaulted points.

While I understand that need to recoup, I also wonder why I have to be one that's disadvantaged - i.e., not be able to use my points when there is a vacancy on DVC property - because some other member defaulted on their mortgage and forfeited points, or used points toward a cruise instead of staying on property.

Basically, it seems that DVC is "playing favorites" with the points they hold (which they can monetize presently - either by renting on their own or selling to CRO) vs. the points I hold (which they can't). Am I misinterpreting that?

Call MS. If it's possible to pull a room back for you, that won't happen if you are trying to book online, you have to call.

Thx. Yeah, I did call. They were unable to help, other than put me on the SS and OKW wait lists. Maybe I will luck out at the 31-day mark, like you said.

 

[Deb & Bill]

You should have booked your night months ago instead of waiting until one month out. Your dates are pretty close to spring break times. You needed to book that night long ago.

It's kind of funny that you posted this on another board on Saturday:

1.) People who try to save seats at the theater;
2.) People who are rude to CMs or otherwise act entitled;
3.) People who do not wait their turn in the elevator bays;
4.) People who stop dead in the middle of a busy passageway (i.e., the doors to Cabanas) instead of moving to the side;
5.) The survey ratings "push" in the MDR.

And posted this in the post above:

While I understand that need to recoup, I also wonder why I have to be one that's disadvantaged - i.e., not be able to use my points when there is a vacancy on DVC property - because some other member defaulted on their mortgage and forfeited points, or used points toward a cruise instead of staying on property.

Basically, it seems that DVC is "playing favorites" with the points they hold (which they can monetize presently - either by renting on their own or selling to CRO) vs. the points I hold (which they can't). Am I misinterpreting that?

 

[squirk]

You should have booked your night months ago instead of waiting until one month out. Your dates are pretty close to spring break times. You needed to book that night long ago.

It's kind of funny that you posted this on another board on Saturday:


And posted this in the post above:

Fair enough point that I should have booked sooner, but how does asking that DVC treat my points and their points equally count as "entitlement"? Are you saying the questions I ask here about DVC possibly giving their points a "home field advantage" are the same thing as treating DCL CMs and fellow passengers like crap?

Also, I'm amazed, if not unsettled, that you track my posts, particularly those on other forums, so closely.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

DVD booked their points well in advance of 3 months out, though.

 

[squirk]

DVD booked their points well in advance of 3 months out, though.

Do you mean I could have been in the same boat had I tried booking in mid-November?

 

[CarolMN]

These discussion come up quite frequently and while there are good reasons why a DVC villa may be available for cash and not for points, it is still disappointing for those who want to pay for that villa with points.

It's easy to assume that the system would work better if all the villas were available for points - i.e., if another villas had been selected to go to the cash side, the one I want would be available for points.

That said, I always wonder why one would assume that the desired villa would still be there if it hadn't gone to cash. The points villas are all gone for a reason. If another had been available, it's very possible (even likely) that someone else would have gotten there first anyway.

IMO, DVC does a pretty good job of balancing the needs of Members who want to book DVC villas with those who want to book cruises and other options in the Collections.

squirk - Hope it works out for you. Good luck!

 

[squirk]

These discussion come up quite frequently and while there are good reasons why a DVC villa may be available for cash and not for points, it is still disappointing for those who want to pay for that villa with points.

It's easy to assume that the system would work better if all the villas were available for points - i.e., if another villas had been selected to go to the cash side, the one I want would be available for points.

That said, I always wonder why one would assume that the desired villa would still be there if it hadn't gone to cash. The points villas are all gone for a reason. If another had been available, it's very possible (even likely) that someone else would have gotten there first anyway.

IMO, DVC does a pretty good job of balancing the needs of Members who want to book DVC villas with those who want to book cruises and other options in the Collections.

squirk - Hope it works out for you. Good luck!

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

Yes, I understand that there is a balancing act to be done here. And I am not crying "foul", in that I am sure if I look closely at my contract, all this is spelled out.

I have no idea why either of these desired villas went to cash. It could've been a default, it could've been that they didn't feel they would be able to rent them out on points, it could've been a cruise or concierge exchange. Regardless of the reason, the fact remains that the rooms are still sitting there unbooked.

Again, my question is a genuine and honest one, because there might be a larger or different perspective that I'm failing to see: does DVD/DVC "play favorites" with their own points? Do they give themselves preferential treatment by curtailing my use of my points so that they can monetize their own?

Knowing the answer will a.) scratch my itch and sate my curiosity; and b.) reinforce the idea of booking as early as possible, even at the less popular properties, because it seems that I am not only competing with other DVC members for availability, I am sometimes competing with DVC itself.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Usually, the hand-wringing isn't about Saratoga or OKW. It's usually about an AKV Value Villa showing for cash.

OKW and Saratoga are big. Even the 2% that Disney own are an okay number of rooms. 2% of the dedicated alone is 8 units.

If they were playing favorites, and they might be, who knows, Saratoga and OKW wouldn't be the first taken back for cash (and maybe aren't).

 

[tjkraz]

Again, my question is a genuine and honest one, because there might be a larger or different perspective that I'm failing to see: does DVD/DVC "play favorites" with their own points? Do they give themselves preferential treatment by curtailing my use of my points so that they can monetize their own?

I have never seen any evidence of that. Typically if you search availability via disneyworld.com, you'll find a sampling of most/all DVC resorts & room types available during all seasons. If Disney wanted to maximize its own revenue from cash rooms, they'd start by grabbing as many Studios as possible at resorts like Beach Club, BoardWalk, Contemporary and Grand Floridian during periods of peak demand.

Disney knows that most villas they try to rent out on a cash basis will go unbooked. That's why it costs so many points to cruise on points or stay at a non-DVC hotel. In those situations, the member's points need to be monetized to cover the cost of the trade. No easy task when Disney already has 25,000 other hotel rooms at its disposal. But cash guests don't book as far in advance as DVC members so Disney will hold onto those rooms right until the bitter end, hoping to earn some revenue from them. When a member chooses to trade out, the corresponding room(s) become property of Disney/CRO and they have every right to hold the accommodations.

The concept behind ANY timeshare is 100% occupancy year-round. Even though DVC is a points-based timeshare, it's not dissimilar to the old fixed-week timeshare model. Years ago developers would sell ownership expressed in a full week's usage. For every room they built, they could sell one week per year to 50 or 51 owners, keeping the remaining 1-2 weeks empty to address maintenance needs.

DVC works on points, but the concept is the same. If every owner is using their points, EVERY SINGLE VILLA will either be occupied by an owner, out of service for maintenance or turned over to CRO due to a member trade. It shouldn't come as any surprise to find zero vacancy a few weeks before travel.