Casey Anthony TRIAL Thread #4
- Thread starter MaryAnnDVC
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crz4mm2
<font color=teal>Most of the time I just sit and s
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She bugs the crap out of me the way she holds her lips.... That is not the normal way someone would try and keep their face impassive.
This is what she's thinking: "Quick quick ... think of a lie! Come up with a good story! Let's see ... tell Baez to say that the squirrels that died in my trunk must've eaten the salami and cheese? Would that work? Think think think! You need a good story, Casey! You can do it!"
MaryAnnDVC
"Mare", DISing since '99; prefers being tagless
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Or worse...he would try to be CHARMING!So if I won a date with JB, can I please have permission to smack him from everyone here?! Seriously though...I think I would want to go insane. Can you imagine it....I wouldn't be able to get any kind of clear questions or answers, he wouldn't be able to put a coherant(sp) sentence together. He would try to confuse me, and on top of everything he wouldn't be able to go out on a date cause ICA would be jealous!
InSession said it was a 100 page motion. Wow.
Lisa loves Pooh
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Best of luck to her. It seems the circumstances of that case so not apply her. Another straw to grasp.
irishbosoxfan
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Proferring Furton
HHBP he can regurgitate his opinion
Jury in
JB what types of products is chloroform commonly found in---when chlorine reacts with organic compounds....bleach....butter oils cheese
JB also found in water---yes chlorinated drinking water
JB will GCMS pick up chloroform in water-yes
As well as cleaning products--yes...volatile organic compounds detected
JB do you have an opinion after looking at 5 compounds Vass found are they from human decomposition---not unique to decomp....can be found in bleach...methyl sulfides has been reported in decomposing organic matter
JB any other opinions--yes just that those compounds not unique to decomposition
JA ever tested the tire cover---JB objects---overruled
JA starts getting tire cover out of box
JA asks if he sees any bleah stains on that---JB objects---overruled
JA chemical reactions that create chloroform dont happen in a vacuum--no
Ja other compounds created--yes
JA if bleach spilled on dark fabric...fabric would show evidence---if source place directly on carpet then yes
JA are you familiar with other chemicals created ---dont know if anyones done a peer view
JA did you do research accidental creation of chloroform---no articles found in my research
JA Find an article in an Iranian journal---dont believe ???
JA ???? --ongoing research study needs to be done
JA how many articles did you present to the jury---only presented 1
JA and what did it say---I wasnt trying to come up with a particular outcome...know it can come from non human sources
JA ?????-----
JA chloroform comes with something else----everything comes from something else
JA youd have to look and see what else is there---
JA and you didnt either---no it wasnt my opinion
JA as far as if the chloroform came from someone mixing chl and giving it to a child or if it came from accidental you didnt look into that--correct
JA chlor in butter and cheese isnt it a carcinogen---yes
JA its very low ppb range--yes
JA is there an FDA limit on amount allowed---yes
((Discussing chlorinated water in here as well))
JA what is it---I dont know
JA low ppb range?---yes
Ja pulling up powerpoint
JA asking about difference in live and dead graph.....we all smell more alike when we're dead than we do when we're alive
JA Your student performed this study for paper published this year---student did under my direction
Student went to the morgue and took a scent transfer unit...kinda like a dustbuster that collects organic compounds---correct used to collect human scent versus human remains
collection medium isnt as good as triple absorbent track---correct it typically depends on concentration youd collect similar compounds whereas TAK would get larger
your student basically held device over the stomach of corpse thensampled to see what compounds were found---held for 1 minute
didnt take control samples of morgue---did some samplings away from the body but the backgrounds have compounds associated with decomposition
some compounds found in all morgue bodies but not in crematorium bodies--correct
this study tuna chicken lamb meats processed wasnt freshly slaughtered she got rotted food---unprepared allowed to decompose yes
does demontrate consistency among human remains versus animals---yes purpose was to look at difference between human and non human---yes does appear to be
JA you testified these studies were slightly different...which study was the most longitudinal---would be reference 6 and 7 the Vass studies
so his was the longitudinal whereas the others were from a particular moment in time---correct
how many used triple absorbant tracks....which ones----staffanopoulas(?) and Vass
is that the best method---most common dont know if its the best
how many cited studies are from whole bodies rather than parts---same 2 Vass and ???
so those that look at the whole body find more compounds than the body parts study---wouldnt say that...doesnt necessarily correlate
Missed a bunch because I had to heat my heating pad
How many did the study with an anaerobic body---Vass
So because Vass found more compounds may be because he looked at them a different way---its a possibility
youd agree the more info we have the better---yes
the chemical analysis isnt suitable by itself but is helpful in eliminating posible sources of odor---yes
do you question that Vass' studies found chloroform and tetra????----his study he didnt run standards and focused on Mass spec
so your indicating questioning whether his 2008 paper was done properly---++Basically says yes++
JA brings him a study to read
JA in the report you say "I'm not saying the study was done properly or thoroughly but it needs ongoing research"...did you change your opinion---No I'm just adding to my opinion
JA refers to the morgue data his student collected and asks if he ran standards on that--no
Ja what other 1 thing could explain the compounds found if not a human body---petroleum products...decomposition event not necessarily human could create volatiles and fatty acids
JA he found other volatiles--yes but you cant relay on those for interpretation
JA so theres no 1 single item besides a dead human body that can explain the findings---chloroform could be from a human body plus residue of cleaning products....could be a non human and cleaning products
JA peer review ???---youd have to ignore 6 peer reviews and focus on the 2 reviews done by the same person
JA recall 2nd deposition on Saturday--yes
JA shows him his depo....I asked you the following question---JB objects---HHBP asks to see the depo---Overuled
Sidebar
JA Reads from depo... "Basically the presence of a dead body could be the reason for the findings... you said yes they could all be explained and today you seem to be trying to change----JB objects---overuled
JA are you now saying something different---other compounds found in trunk as well adding to that
JA can you tell the jury any other single event or thing that would cause---could be a non decompostional event compounds like gasoline...
++BLAH BLAH BLAH this guy has my eyes crossing++
KF talking about salami and cheese could be cause of decomposition event...no peer reviews on background studies...we dont have a strng database
JA you do agree that something was decomposing in the trunk---yes
JA anything you know of that could account for the oakridge findings---just answered
Ja looking at slide of garbage from trunk
JA look at salami pouch...no meat---theres residue
JA residue wouldnt account for the odor---would be unlikely
JA velveeta remnants...how much of velveeta is a milk products---has milk and milk fat not a bunch of cheese
Ja do you know how much velveeta was left in pkg---dont know
JA well lets look at it---JB objects---Overuled
JA would it give off decomp odor if its wet or dry---talks about odor would be different
JA hands him velveeta box asks if it has food---he says no wouldnt produce odor
JA hands him another velveeta pkg asks him if it would give off odor---if it was wet then...
JA no food product in here---residual remnants from other items could've caused decomp profile
JA hands him next item---just a soiled box
JA soiled box wouldnt give off decompositional odor---KF says something about if it came into contact with fatty acids...
JA hands him wrapper that finally has some food remnants on it and JA asks to show it to the jury--JB objects says it's altered evidence---Overuled
Sidebar
JA Not sufficient material in any item we looked at to created the odor from trunk---cant say that that material would be consistent with fatty acids and inorganics cant say itd be speculation...could be contributers not saying its the source
JA would the trash the limited amount of material be enough to leave an odor for 2 years after trash removed---unlikely
JA asked about his work with canines---JB objects--overuled
Ja youd agree the substances we just looked at would not be such that a cadaver dog would hit on it--JB objects---Sustained
JB redirect
Jb asks about stain finding a bleach stain--no i didnt
JB why go to Iran to get that study--- I may have read it but i only relied on articles I had at my disposal...probably many i'm not aware of
JB you used recognized scientific journals from her in the USA--yes...peer reviews....
JB was Iranian study among them---Id have to see the study
JB referring to slide 3....any of the chemicals cited here found by Vass--No
JB ----these are compounds from our study and his are different from ours
None of the ones Vass found are listed here---thats correct
JB asking about longitudinal study...how long was 2nd paper...used 4 bodies over a period of time but I'm not sure
Jb in your opinion would a body buried over --JA Objects
Sidebar
JB in your opinion would a body buried over ayear be helpful in this case---would need to loook at whole body and stages of decomposition to see what stage of decomposition was present compared to above ground
JB are you aware that Caylee allegedly disappeared on June 16 and car left at amscot ??????????????
Do you have an opinion if the chemical composition of decomposition is ----yes those 5 compounds relied upon by Vass are know NOT to be unique to decomposition++++++jury instructed to disregard++++++++++++
JB JA asked you what else could account for compounds in trunk---could be contributers
JB do you know what the chemical compounds in trunk were before the event--No
Jb you would need to know that to be accurate---yes it would be helpful
JB asking about garbage pics.....is left altered---Object---Sustain
JB any difference----yes removed and spread out
JB you havent seen them not spread out---correct
JB you dont know if food items were thrown away....drying room etc---correct
JB trash appears to be clean---Object---Sustain
Taking a recess till 2:/3:35
HHBP he can regurgitate his opinion
Jury in
JB what types of products is chloroform commonly found in---when chlorine reacts with organic compounds....bleach....butter oils cheese
JB also found in water---yes chlorinated drinking water
JB will GCMS pick up chloroform in water-yes
As well as cleaning products--yes...volatile organic compounds detected
JB do you have an opinion after looking at 5 compounds Vass found are they from human decomposition---not unique to decomp....can be found in bleach...methyl sulfides has been reported in decomposing organic matter
JB any other opinions--yes just that those compounds not unique to decomposition
JA ever tested the tire cover---JB objects---overruled
JA starts getting tire cover out of box
JA asks if he sees any bleah stains on that---JB objects---overruled
JA chemical reactions that create chloroform dont happen in a vacuum--no
Ja other compounds created--yes
JA if bleach spilled on dark fabric...fabric would show evidence---if source place directly on carpet then yes
JA are you familiar with other chemicals created ---dont know if anyones done a peer view
JA did you do research accidental creation of chloroform---no articles found in my research
JA Find an article in an Iranian journal---dont believe ???
JA ???? --ongoing research study needs to be done
JA how many articles did you present to the jury---only presented 1
JA and what did it say---I wasnt trying to come up with a particular outcome...know it can come from non human sources
JA ?????-----
JA chloroform comes with something else----everything comes from something else
JA youd have to look and see what else is there---
JA and you didnt either---no it wasnt my opinion
JA as far as if the chloroform came from someone mixing chl and giving it to a child or if it came from accidental you didnt look into that--correct
JA chlor in butter and cheese isnt it a carcinogen---yes
JA its very low ppb range--yes
JA is there an FDA limit on amount allowed---yes
((Discussing chlorinated water in here as well))
JA what is it---I dont know
JA low ppb range?---yes
Ja pulling up powerpoint
JA asking about difference in live and dead graph.....we all smell more alike when we're dead than we do when we're alive
JA Your student performed this study for paper published this year---student did under my direction
Student went to the morgue and took a scent transfer unit...kinda like a dustbuster that collects organic compounds---correct used to collect human scent versus human remains
collection medium isnt as good as triple absorbent track---correct it typically depends on concentration youd collect similar compounds whereas TAK would get larger
your student basically held device over the stomach of corpse thensampled to see what compounds were found---held for 1 minute
didnt take control samples of morgue---did some samplings away from the body but the backgrounds have compounds associated with decomposition
some compounds found in all morgue bodies but not in crematorium bodies--correct
this study tuna chicken lamb meats processed wasnt freshly slaughtered she got rotted food---unprepared allowed to decompose yes
does demontrate consistency among human remains versus animals---yes purpose was to look at difference between human and non human---yes does appear to be
JA you testified these studies were slightly different...which study was the most longitudinal---would be reference 6 and 7 the Vass studies
so his was the longitudinal whereas the others were from a particular moment in time---correct
how many used triple absorbant tracks....which ones----staffanopoulas(?) and Vass
is that the best method---most common dont know if its the best
how many cited studies are from whole bodies rather than parts---same 2 Vass and ???
so those that look at the whole body find more compounds than the body parts study---wouldnt say that...doesnt necessarily correlate
Missed a bunch because I had to heat my heating pad
How many did the study with an anaerobic body---Vass
So because Vass found more compounds may be because he looked at them a different way---its a possibility
youd agree the more info we have the better---yes
the chemical analysis isnt suitable by itself but is helpful in eliminating posible sources of odor---yes
do you question that Vass' studies found chloroform and tetra????----his study he didnt run standards and focused on Mass spec
so your indicating questioning whether his 2008 paper was done properly---++Basically says yes++
JA brings him a study to read
JA in the report you say "I'm not saying the study was done properly or thoroughly but it needs ongoing research"...did you change your opinion---No I'm just adding to my opinion
JA refers to the morgue data his student collected and asks if he ran standards on that--no
Ja what other 1 thing could explain the compounds found if not a human body---petroleum products...decomposition event not necessarily human could create volatiles and fatty acids
JA he found other volatiles--yes but you cant relay on those for interpretation
JA so theres no 1 single item besides a dead human body that can explain the findings---chloroform could be from a human body plus residue of cleaning products....could be a non human and cleaning products
JA peer review ???---youd have to ignore 6 peer reviews and focus on the 2 reviews done by the same person
JA recall 2nd deposition on Saturday--yes
JA shows him his depo....I asked you the following question---JB objects---HHBP asks to see the depo---Overuled
Sidebar
JA Reads from depo... "Basically the presence of a dead body could be the reason for the findings... you said yes they could all be explained and today you seem to be trying to change----JB objects---overuled
JA are you now saying something different---other compounds found in trunk as well adding to that
JA can you tell the jury any other single event or thing that would cause---could be a non decompostional event compounds like gasoline...
++BLAH BLAH BLAH this guy has my eyes crossing++
KF talking about salami and cheese could be cause of decomposition event...no peer reviews on background studies...we dont have a strng database
JA you do agree that something was decomposing in the trunk---yes
JA anything you know of that could account for the oakridge findings---just answered
Ja looking at slide of garbage from trunk
JA look at salami pouch...no meat---theres residue
JA residue wouldnt account for the odor---would be unlikely
JA velveeta remnants...how much of velveeta is a milk products---has milk and milk fat not a bunch of cheese
Ja do you know how much velveeta was left in pkg---dont know
JA well lets look at it---JB objects---Overuled
JA would it give off decomp odor if its wet or dry---talks about odor would be different
JA hands him velveeta box asks if it has food---he says no wouldnt produce odor
JA hands him another velveeta pkg asks him if it would give off odor---if it was wet then...
JA no food product in here---residual remnants from other items could've caused decomp profile
JA hands him next item---just a soiled box
JA soiled box wouldnt give off decompositional odor---KF says something about if it came into contact with fatty acids...
JA hands him wrapper that finally has some food remnants on it and JA asks to show it to the jury--JB objects says it's altered evidence---Overuled
Sidebar
JA Not sufficient material in any item we looked at to created the odor from trunk---cant say that that material would be consistent with fatty acids and inorganics cant say itd be speculation...could be contributers not saying its the source
JA would the trash the limited amount of material be enough to leave an odor for 2 years after trash removed---unlikely
JA asked about his work with canines---JB objects--overuled
Ja youd agree the substances we just looked at would not be such that a cadaver dog would hit on it--JB objects---Sustained
JB redirect
Jb asks about stain finding a bleach stain--no i didnt
JB why go to Iran to get that study--- I may have read it but i only relied on articles I had at my disposal...probably many i'm not aware of
JB you used recognized scientific journals from her in the USA--yes...peer reviews....
JB was Iranian study among them---Id have to see the study
JB referring to slide 3....any of the chemicals cited here found by Vass--No
JB ----these are compounds from our study and his are different from ours
None of the ones Vass found are listed here---thats correct
JB asking about longitudinal study...how long was 2nd paper...used 4 bodies over a period of time but I'm not sure
Jb in your opinion would a body buried over --JA Objects
Sidebar
JB in your opinion would a body buried over ayear be helpful in this case---would need to loook at whole body and stages of decomposition to see what stage of decomposition was present compared to above ground
JB are you aware that Caylee allegedly disappeared on June 16 and car left at amscot ??????????????
Do you have an opinion if the chemical composition of decomposition is ----yes those 5 compounds relied upon by Vass are know NOT to be unique to decomposition++++++jury instructed to disregard++++++++++++
JB JA asked you what else could account for compounds in trunk---could be contributers
JB do you know what the chemical compounds in trunk were before the event--No
Jb you would need to know that to be accurate---yes it would be helpful
JB asking about garbage pics.....is left altered---Object---Sustain
JB any difference----yes removed and spread out
JB you havent seen them not spread out---correct
JB you dont know if food items were thrown away....drying room etc---correct
JB trash appears to be clean---Object---Sustain
Taking a recess till 2:/3:35
usnuzuloose
Loosing Boo Boo
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: 
Conservative Hippie
Ravenclaw
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Another teetotaler (although willingly)....I'll bring a gallon of Chick-Fil-A sweet tea!
Mosoh
DIS Veteran
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If he stop rambling and simply answer yes or no to most questions would be a good start
usnuzuloose
Loosing Boo Boo
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a slogan for the DT. " If it ain't working file a mistrial "
Lisa loves Pooh
DIS Legend
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Allegedly missing on the 16th?
If he is going to claim drowning--he needs to phrase his questions so that he doesn't look lime he agrees with prosecution while attempting to show they are wrong.
If he is going to claim drowning--he needs to phrase his questions so that he doesn't look lime he agrees with prosecution while attempting to show they are wrong.
irishbosoxfan
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Lisa loves Pooh
DIS Legend
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Casey is smiling And eyebrow "shrugging" (raising) in a flirty way with male attorney (the one to her left--but he was standing to her right at the time).
I simply could not imagine having such a heinous accusation with my life on the line and doing these "facials". Nervous laughter or a grief weighted smile or something followed by a sullen expression, perhaps---but the flirty joy? Boggles my mind!
Eta: may have already posted--not sure if I read here or heard on tv, but defense seems to be asking for competency decision to be reconsidered. I have an inside chuckle that none of the commentators got it right.
I simply could not imagine having such a heinous accusation with my life on the line and doing these "facials". Nervous laughter or a grief weighted smile or something followed by a sullen expression, perhaps---but the flirty joy? Boggles my mind!
Eta: may have already posted--not sure if I read here or heard on tv, but defense seems to be asking for competency decision to be reconsidered. I have an inside chuckle that none of the commentators got it right.
Mosoh
DIS Veteran
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That was a dumb remark for sure.
Is he going for the she was dead not missing angle again? Just stoopid
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