Casey Anthony Trial Thread #3

[EMom]

If Tony didn't want Caylee sleeping overnight at his apt. and if Caylee didn't fit in with Casey's latest friends and their college partying ways, NO she was NOT going to ask George and Cindy to watch Caylee so she could have some "me" time. A normal person might have done that, but we're not talking normal here.

Remember that Cindy was on her butt about being a less than stellar parent and I believe Cindy was only about six inches from cutting Casey out of the picture and raising Caylee herself. Casey would not allow that, because that would allow Cindy to "win" and indeed, there was a battle of wills going on. Handing over Caylee so she could be footloose and fancy free would also mean her parents would CUT HER OFF. No handouts, no living at their house, no car, no nothing. Caylee was her golden ticket. And to hand her over to Cindy, of all people? The very person who criticizes you and points out your shortcomings? No way.

How many times have you heard of men (and occasionally women) who are in the midst of a divorce/fighting with their spouse and kill their children rather than let the spouse have them? They would sooner see their own children DEAD than let the other person have the joy of loving and raising them. And that is how I read Casey. "I don't want to be burdened with her, but I'll be damned if I'll let you have her."

And I'll tell you one more thing. All those "how to kill people" type computer searches combined with her telling people her parents were moving out and the house would be hers make me wonder if she was considering offing them as well. I'm not the only one who has mentioned it. My bet is she would have somehow tried to cast blame on Lee, so she would have inherited 100% of George and Cindy's assets. What a piece of work.

And just because I'm on a roll.......Werner Spitz!!!!!! The duct tape was put on the body AFTER it had decomposed. Who in the world puts duct tape across the mouth of a SKELETON???? I can just see it........The evildoer wanders in, spies the skeleton, (or maybe carried it there themselves) carefully manages to tape the mouth while not allowing the jaw to fall off......which is something Dr. Spitz couldn't even manage in court......risks getting his own DNA on the duct tape, deposits the taped up skeleton in the woods and skips away, satisfied with the cruel hoax he has perpetrated. Puh-leeze! I have some swamp land to sell. Any buyers?

 

[CurlyGirl]

A kid drowns--the first response isn't to cover it up and ignore it. It just does not compute in my brain at all.

This exactly! I am sure that every parent who discovers their child's body face down in a pool panics in reaction. But they call EMS.

And, even if Caylee did accidentally drown, then what else was going on for Casey to not call EMS? What was Casey afraid of (or hiding) that she didn't want EMS/police to find out about? Living in FL, Casey must've seen many accidental drownings on tv to know that you call EMS if one happens. Was she afraid that an autopsy would be conducted and something would turn up (drugs in Caylee's system)?

And do not tell me she didn't call EMS and covered it up because Cindy would get mad. I think Cindy's anger over an accidental drowning would not be nearly as bad as the anger she must be feeling now.

 

[Aisling]

See you all tomorrow morning when then the trial comes on again! I hope there is a bombshell or three.

 

[CurlyGirl]

And just because I'm on a roll.......Werner Spitz!!!!!! The duct tape was put on the body AFTER it had decomposed. Who in the world puts duct tape across the mouth of a SKELETON???? I can just see it........The evildoer wanders in, spies the skeleton, (or maybe carried it there themselves) carefully manages to tape the mouth while not allowing the jaw to fall off......which is something Dr. Spitz couldn't even manage in court......risks getting his own DNA on the duct tape, deposits the taped up skeleton in the woods and skips away, satisfied with the cruel hoax he has perpetrated. Puh-leeze! I have some swamp land to sell. Any buyers?

OK - sooo not defending Spitz here and I want to be perfectly clear on that!

I could be totally wrong (and please correct me if I am). The way I interpreted his testimony was that the tape was put on after the body started to decompose. Once it's a skeleton, isn't decomposition considered finished? To me, I thought Spitz meant that the tape was put on before skeletal state. However, he never said how far into decomposition the body was ... didn't say if it was in a skeletal state or if it was while tissue was still on the body. I didn't think that he meant that the body was in a skeletal state of decomposition when it was taped. It really would've been helpful to know how far along he thought decomposition was when the tape was placed on the face.

Remember, the car smelled of death which means the body was decomposing in it. Could the tape have been put on right before dumping? Because, at that point, the body was decomposed. That was my thought. Let's put the tape on to make it look like a kidnapping even days down the road.

I would think that a body has to decompose quicker when in bags and a blanket in the trunk of a car in the FL heat than under "general circumstances". So the body could've been into the "right" frame of decomposition when the tape was put on, as Dr. Spitz had stated.

Sadly, Dr. Spitz never said the degree/state of decomposition the body was in when it was taped. That would've been a great question on cross-exam! Too bad nobody asked it!

I wish he were more specific on how far into decomposition the body got when it was taped. It could've been put on skin at that point and then all of that washed off in the flooding and that's why there was no DNA and was still Doesn't mean that the body was a total skeleton.

 

[hambirg]

I'm just going to say this one more time. . .in order to kill someone. .. you have to have ACCESS to them!!!! Ted Bundy was a real bad dude. . .but he didn't kill any of the Green River Murderer victims. . .because he was already dead! The only person that had access to Caylee was Casey. . .possibly George or Cindy. . .but that is unlikely. Considering Casey didn't instantly run to the police with a missing child report, but instead led everyone on a 31 day wild goose chase with her lies. . .there is not a better smoking gun in this circumstantial case. Why? For the love of God why would a parent do that??!!!! If your toddler turned up missing. . .or lets just say she accidentally drowned. . .why would you spend the next 31 days fabricating crazy stories about non existent nannies. . .it just doesn't make any sense!!! Motive is there. It's not any different than the Susan Smith case. She wanted to lead a carefree life. . .without looking bad to her parents. .. woops. .. that sure backfired on her! And like Susan Smith . . she came up with some really wacky stories that, in her mind, people would believe. I wholeheartedly believe that she believed that she would say the nanny took her and nobody would follow that up. . .she would just be missing forever. Well. . .luckily detectives are smarter than that. . .and they found the body too. So now she has to come up with some other wacky story because her first one didn't pan out. I just want to shake her! You know they gave Susan Smith a lie detector test that she failed twice. . .has this even been considered with Casey? I'm just curious. I can't imagine that she would ever agree to one. .. and they probably can't force you to take one. .. but I would love to see her try to defend not taking one. JMHO.

So again. . .ACCESS. .. if not you Casey, then who?!

 

[diznygirl]

OK - sooo not defending Spitz here and I want to be perfectly clear on that!

I could be totally wrong (and please correct me if I am). The way I interpreted his testimony was that the tape was put on after the body started to decompose. Once it's a skeleton, isn't decomposition considered finished? To me, I thought Spitz meant that the tape was put on before skeletal state. However, he never said how far into decomposition the body was ... didn't say if it was in a skeletal state or if it was while tissue was still on the body. I didn't think that he meant that the body was in a skeletal state of decomposition when it was taped. It really would've been helpful to know how far along he thought decomposition was when the tape was placed on the face.

Remember, the car smelled of death which means the body was decomposing in it. Could the tape have been put on right before dumping? Because, at that point, the body was decomposed. That was my thought. Let's put the tape on to make it look like a kidnapping even days down the road.

I would think that a body has to decompose quicker when in bags and a blanket in the trunk of a car in the FL heat than under "general circumstances". So the body could've been into the "right" frame of decomposition when the tape was put on, as Dr. Spitz had stated.

Sadly, Dr. Spitz never said the degree/state of decomposition the body was in when it was taped. That would've been a great question on cross-exam! Too bad nobody asked it!

I wish he were more specific on how far into decomposition the body got when it was taped. It could've been put on skin at that point and then all of that washed off in the flooding and that's why there was no DNA and was still Doesn't mean that the body was a total skeleton.

I thought his opinion was that if the tape was put on before decomposition that there would be tissue and DNA - and the absence of such evidence meant it was put on when it was just a skeleton for the primary purpose of holding the jaw in place.

 

[CurlyGirl]

I thought his opinion was that if the tape was put on before decomposition that there would be tissue and DNA - and the absence of such evidence meant it was put on when it was just a skeleton for the primary purpose of holding the jaw in place.

I don't recall that part of his testimony, so thanks for clearing that up and correcting me as I had requested! I only remembered him saying it was put on into decomposition and that it was not used as a "murder weapon".

 

[usnuzuloose]

I dont know if she really was killed at the house, as the neighbor saw her come home and back the car into the garage. Then she walked over to borrow the shovel. And then brought it back in an hour. I dont think she died at home since the neighbor saw her come home and back the car in the garage.The phone calls were to probably keep checking that no one one was home. George should have gone to work and Cindy usually got home in the evening. If she is partying and Caylee isnt with her I dont think she kept her in the trunk because anyone walking near the car could possibly see her. I do believe that the chloroform was used as the bag with the bottle and the syringe were all together with Caylee. I dont think we will ever know the truth. But I do know one thing Casey has to live with this everyday of her life. Like TL mentioned she would wake up from having nightmares. I am sure it is due to this issue. I am surprised that as much as Casey loves to write that she did not have a notebook with every thing wrote down. She may have and just got rid of it. If there was a heart sticker on the duct tape it may have washed away with the hurricane coming through and it was flooded.


This is such a sad case to even really have to watch. I do think that GA and CA enabled there daughter so much that they can not even determine when she was lying. If they had disciplined more in the early years it may have not come to this. I do feel bad that they do have to go through this process day in and day out. And even when it is done they still dont have a granddaughter or their own child at home.

 

[usnuzuloose]

I was reading that Kathi Belich ( sp? ) tweeted that after Dr. Spitz was done she was talking to him and he was praising JA for the cross exam, then Baez walked out and pushed Kathi Belich out of the way and was Highly pissed. I guess he had a bad day?

 

[joviroxx]

we're trying to put OUR normal way of thinking onto someone who clearly isn't "normal" and doesn't have that same thought process, emotion, and common sense as a "normal" person.

And there you go, in a nutshell.

 

[Wadecool]

I thought his opinion was that if the tape was put on before decomposition that there would be tissue and DNA - and the absence of such evidence meant it was put on when it was just a skeleton for the primary purpose of holding the jaw in place.

I wish Ashton had asked Dr Spitz whether a tropical storm could have washed that tissue and DNA from the tape. It makes sense in my mind as to why the tape didn't have DNA on it, that's a lot of rain.

 

[Wadecool]

I was reading that Kathi Belich ( sp? ) tweeted that after Dr. Spitz was done she was talking to him and he was praising JA for the cross exam, then Baez walked out and pushed Kathi Belich out of the way and was Highly pissed. I guess he had a bad day?

Baez had a very bad day on Saturday. Getting threatened with contempt and dressed down by the judge is not good at all. Thanks for sharing that, I find it hilarious.

 

[joviroxx]

FYI. This is the Dr Spitz report sent to Baez. He specifically mentions that Dr G's autopsy was done to protocol. He also does not mention any kind of information on the case itself beyond just an examination of the bones themselves.

http://www.cfnews13.com/static/arti...sey-anthony-2nd-autopsy-werner-spitz-0315.pdf

 

[Mosoh]

I just don't think Casey hated her life with Caylee. I think she was leading a good life; built in babysitters, no need to work, sweet little kid, etc. I think she enjoyed her life. I could believe that when she made these new friends a few months before Caylee's death, she started to find Caylee to be a burden. I just don't think she spent 2.5 years hating on Caylee because nobody else seems to claim that. I don't think she drugged her for 2 years running. Caylee's health seems to prove otherwise.

I think the Anthony household is dysfunctional. I believe there was a lot of tension between mom and dad regarding their marriage and I think they were probably pushed to a point where they were getting tired of Casey's BS. I am guessing they argued frequently in the final month of Caylee's life and Casey lost it one day in an "I'll show you, mom" type of way.

Again, I fully admit that I could be so far off it isn't even funny. I wish we would hear the truth but I doubt we would know the truth if it smacked us in the face. The Anthony family has lying down to a science.

I think you make a lot a good points, she didn't seem to hate her life at all with Caylee, you're right about that.

The tension btwn Cindy and ICA was definitely there. Cindy and Geroge avoided making any remarks about it due to their protecting her and not wanting to give any motive. But Lee and and one friend (I forget who) did mention they fought over Caylee and ICA herself said her mom said she was unfit on the stand

I think pure psychopathic evil took over and on the 15th or 16th the fight was huge and ICA's mothering came into play again, so instead of being labeled a bad mother she removed the object that caused the friction....Caylee. Now she could be the poor, loving, grieving hot mother who's child is lost. Pure selfishness and stupidity is what took her so long to begin the storytelling.

 

[Mosoh]

Okay-

I had stopped watching after the first week and only got bits and pieces of "did Caylee appear well dressed (or however he said it), fed, and happy".

My take--if Casey was more buddy buddy and not as motherly, then a 2 year old would still enjoy her company. Much like when my kids are in the care of another caregiver. They will appear happy and while we know that those caregivers are not the mother--visually, it wouldn't necessarily appear that way. KWIM?

My best example is when I have other kids with use and people assume that those additional kids are mine. To someone else, it doesn't appear any different.

So Caylee enjoyed Casey's company--and Caylee knew her name as "mom", but did she know her as "mom" or this really fun lady that comes around some times and hangs out with me?

My sister was an awful mother and a bad person, at one point the entire family begged her to leave her daughter behind while persuing a new man in another state. She had her choice of 4 homes, but she took her and left another behind with a father she "claimed" abused her. But there dozens of her acquaintances who would be able to claim in sound bite questions that she was a good loving mother.

Like my sister, I think ICA loved the attention Caylee got for her. It was if Caylee was an accessory

 

[joviroxx]

I think pure psychopathic evil took over and on the 15th or 16th the fight was huge and ICA's mothering came into play again, so instead of being labeled a bad mother she removed the object that caused the friction....Caylee. Now she could be the poor, loving, grieving hot mother who's child is lost. Pure selfishness and stupidity is what took her so long to begin the storytelling.

I agree with you about the psychopathic evil but Im not sure it was about removing the friction. I think it was more to spite her mother. She knew Cindy had spoken to a therapist about getting custody of Caylee and it was a way to get back at her mother.

I recently went through Cindy's bank statements. You really can't get the picture of how much Casey was taking until you actually see those checks she was writing. It had to have been a major point of contention and I can bet Casey just saw it being all about herself. How dare her mother get mad at her?

My sister was an awful mother and a bad person, at one point the entire family begged her to leave her daughter behind while persuing a new man in another state. She had her choice of 4 homes, but she took her and left another behind with a father she "claimed" abused her. But there dozens of her acquaintances who would be able to claim in sound bite questions that she was a good loving mother.

Like my sister, I think ICA loved the attention Caylee got for her. It was if Caylee was an accessory

So sorry to hear your family went through that with your sister and niece. And I agree with the bolded. Caylee was an accessory for Casey and got her plenty of attention when she wanted it.

 

[Mosoh]

I was reading that Kathi Belich ( sp? ) tweeted that after Dr. Spitz was done she was talking to him and he was praising JA for the cross exam, then Baez walked out and pushed Kathi Belich out of the way and was Highly pissed. I guess he had a bad day?

Ya think

Spitz praising AJ, very interesting I guess the old fella isn't entirely off his rocker

 

[Mosoh]

I agree with you about the psychopathic evil but Im not sure it was about removing the friction. I think it was more to spite her mother. She knew Cindy had spoken to a therapist about getting custody of Caylee and it was a way to get back at her mother.

I recently went through Cindy's bank statements. You really can't get the picture of how much Casey was taking until you actually see those checks she was writing. It had to have been a major point of contention and I can bet Casey just saw it being all about herself. How dare her mother get mad at her?


So sorry to hear your family went through that with your sister and niece. And I agree with the bolded. Caylee was an accessory for Casey and got her plenty of attention when she wanted it.

Morning and thank you

I haven't seen the accounts yet but I understood it was bad. More looking to

I just don't see why if she hated Cindy that much not walking away unless the stories of Cindy seeking custody are true. Then again it's very hard to take kids away from their parents and ICA didn't had substance or physical abuse issues.

She claimed rape over this she would have done the same to keep custody is my guess.

 

[joviroxx]

Morning and thank you

I haven't seen the accounts yet but I understood it was bad. More looking to

I just don't see why if she hated Cindy that much not walking away unless the stories of Cindy seeking custody are true. Then again it's very hard to take kids away from their parents and ICA didn't had substance or physical abuse issues.

She claimed rape over this she would have done the same to keep custody is my guess.

Well, I think if Casey walked away then what? She had it easy there. She would have to work and actually be productive... No matter what the situation at home was, they never kicked her out and always ended up covering her and for her...

I don't know if Cindy would have done it or not and you are right, It is hard to take kids away from parents but I think that just the idea that Cindy was thinking this put Casey in a fit!

 

[joviroxx]

Alright, cameras are up and Im ready for another day of testimony. My last one for a week! EEK!