Car suggestions?

[GoofyDad869]

Golfgal -

And how does Consumer Reports attract those private source fundings and subscriptions? I'm not knocking them - I have a subscription to their website.

Here's my point... Have you heard of any tire separation/rollover accidents lately? Did Ford really take care of absolutely ALL of those issues, including the factors they have absolutely no control over (like angle of incident when the vehicle goes off road, personal loading of the vehicle, tire pressures at the time of the accident, etc.)? Why was that SUCH a design flaw on merely the Ford Explorer, when the Ranger pickup and larger Expedition SUVs are built on the same chassis, or even the Mercury & Lincoln SUV models (also based very closely on the Explorer)?

Or how about those nasty gas tank flashover problems with Chevy trucks (a la the NBC news show exploitation where they were caught installing explosive squibs to 'help' make their point)? I don't trust much of what I hear, watch or read from any media source. I do trust Consumer Reports' OBJECTIVE criticisms - just not the wide-ranging, subjective and representative statements. And I don't trust ONLY "Consumer Reports" - I'll back it up with some others (I subscribe to "Car & Driver" & "AutoWeek" and I also pick up most issues of "Road & Track" & "Motor Trend"), and Edmund's website, and Vehix, etc. on a vehicle-buying decision.

How about the fact that Nissan recalled ALL early model 350Zs for front tire wear / toe-in issues? Somehow, that one never made national press coverage. It meant big-bucks repairs to the suspension for each and every car, plus replacement of tires for an entire couple years' model line.

No manufacturer is perfect. Some are better than others, but SOME are getting a bad rap. And some are just better at covering up their imperfections (I'll use that word tactfully, as an 'imperfection' caused my uncle and cousin to be killed - in a Toyota - many years ago). Toyota settled out of court for that accident. Visit "www.alldata.com" and check out their automotive recalls and technical service bulletins for ANY year make/model.

We're talking about intricate machines that consist of thousands of parts - and we're beefing about one or two (or a dozen) malfunctions? In my earlier post I mentioned a few things wrong with my cars. As I look back over it, the only malfunction not relating to misuse/abuse on my part (or my daughter's part) was the driver-side electric window motor on my T/A, and arguably the Subie's sticking throttle plate. Who's to say that I didn't have my window ALL the way up last time I washed it?

If you're just trusting only what you're reading in (insert any publication here), you're not getting all of the information.

I personally recommend Subarus (which is a GM subsidiary) - is that American-made enough? My wife feels that GM cars are crap - but my GM gets me door-to-door just as well as any other car, warts and all.

I also stated that my next car (Corvette Z06) is (will be?) American-made. Chevrolet's American, right?

I've owned Fords, a Mercury, a Chevy, Pontiacs, a Subaru, a Jeep, and a couple of Oldsmobiles. I'm not an American-made-only, but I am biased toward (not against) them. I'll admit that.

Basing an important decision on '(Enter brand name here)'s have been in my family for XX years' as your sole reason doesn't really cut it for me either.

Would I personally buy a Toyota? Probably not, but I also don't try to keep a family member from considering one. My sister drives one. Cool.

As far as recommendations - I am not a professional car reviewer. I am in one of our two cars 90% of the time, with the remainder being in a rental, or another persons' car. I only know about the cars I've owned, the only other comments about any other would just be supposition and rumor.

The cars I've owned:
2001 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am - love it. minor problems.
2003 Subaru Legacy Wagon - love it. minor problems.
2001 Pontiac Grand Am - major problems. traded it for the Subie.
1997 Pontiac Montana - loved it. traded it for the T/A.
1996 Jeep Cherokee - minor problems. traded it for the Grand Am.
1995 Chevrolet Camaro - V6. loved it. minor problems. traded it for the Montana.
1993 Oldsmobile Acheiva - minor problems. traded it for the Cherokee.
1987 Oldsmobile Firenze - minor problems. traded it for the Camaro.
1984 Ford Escort - major problems. high school car. (I was the shiz, wasn't I)
1980 Ford Fiesta - minor problems. high school car.
1978 Mercury Zephyr - minor problems. high school car.

9 for 11 - good experiences. Both of those bad experiences had some form of owner abuse that lead to the problem. Of the ones with minor problems, the vast majority have been abuse / neglect problems. Am I lucky? I don't know.

 

[golfgal]

GoofyDad, I am not knocking your American only bias. I really want to know what are the better American cars. My opinion on a Toyota/Honda is simply based on my own personal experience. We have fixed more dang little things on the American cars we have owned then the Toyotas we have owned. To me that says a lot. Yes, there are issues with everything but I am not even talking about major repairs/recalls, I am talking about quality control issues/standards the different manufactures seem to have.

Take our Mercury Villager for example, the doors lock them selves all the time, manufactures defect, no repair option available, tumbler for the ignition broke $250 repair, we have a light bar across the front of the car that was common with a lot of Mercury's, well you can't buy replacement bulbs except for $10/pop from Ford, sliding door panel fell off (nice man at the service dept showed me how to fix it my self, had to order new fasteners though-the car was 3 years old at the time), back door latch-been fixed 5 times, rear heating fan, some weird problem there, makes a horrible whining noise, no one can seem to fix it, covers for the springs for the part of the seat that folds down, fell off, no way to fix them, covering for the seat belt housing fell off, needed some new fasteners, those held for 6 months. I could keep going but I think you get the idea. It is the stupid little things that get me. We take our vehicles in for regular repairs/maintenance, we are not hard on them.

Our Toyota, we put in a new starter after 14 years of ownership. That is ALL we had to fix on the car. (not including regular stuff like new tires, etc. that every car needs).

 

[GoofyDad869]

It sounds to me like your Villager was a lemon. That happens. Some domestic models ARE prone to that. But also some non-domestic models are prone to that (in my heavy-handed example of the Nissan 350Z). The point I was trying to make is that the perception that domestics are MORE prone may not necessarily be true. Re-reading my earlier post, I need to apologize to you for being crotchety. Sorry about that.

As I said earlier I only have opinions of the cars I have driven regularly. Anything else coming out of my mouth (or typing, in this case) is just heresay. It may be researched heresay, but that's all it is at the end of the day. Ignore it, take it with a grain of salt, or embrace it - that's up to you.

Also, you haven't mentioned what kind of vehicle / what's important to you. Budget, gas mileage, SUV/Minivan/wagon, 5 kids or just you & hubby, ever gonna tow a boat? Are you interested in a vehicle simply to commute you & yours (by which I mean "the quietest/easiest way to get from Point A to Point B") or are you interested in something that involves the driver a little (or a lot) more?

I'm biased (or in other words, I prefer...) a little more toward the driver involvement end. I get a manual transmission if available and get the most powerful engine/trickest suspension option available if it doesn't break our budget. Anything else is just gravy. My wife just wants the automotive appliance - just get her there with a minimum of fuss, and in as high a level of luxury as she can get for a given model. I couldn't car less if the car has power windows & locks or how many cupholders, just as long as it has enough seats for the derrieres of my immediate family AND it is enjoyable to drive. She is interested in sound system quality as it compares to road noise - I think the engine is all the sound system I need. Obviously, we have VERY different wants & needs - when it comes to our own vehicles we don't agree a whole lot. Yet we both have the same basic needs - a vehicle to get us (& our kids) from Point A to Point B.

Don't be too swayed by the advertised gas mileage figures. That's all they are - figures arrived at by tests that bear little relation to real-world driving. The highway rating is capped to a maximum of 50mph at relatively low rpm - the test was designed around the 55mph speed limit way back in the 70s. Even my car with a 300+ hp V8 is capable of 27mpg highway based on the standard mileage test (city is 18mpg). My observed mileage over 5 years of ownership is 21 to 23mpg with a mix of highway/city driving - heavier on the highway than the city. That is abysmal compared to a lightweight 4-cyl car (like a Civic) but is great compared to a heavy SUV or pickup truck. My point is, use those mileage figures as guidelines, not as gospel.

Here's some suggestions I could make, based on what I've read. Most of these from "Motor Trend" (MT), "Road & Track" (RT), and "Car & Driver" (CD) comparisons. "Car & Driver" has a heavy Honda & BMW pro-bias (based on 10+ years of reading it cover to cover). None of these magazines are especially biased for-or-against domestic cars. If there are shared-platform models, I'll list 'em if I know about 'em. You didn't say what sort of budget you're looking for so I won't limit the list to below $30,000 models. You've not mentioned any vans (besides the Villager example), SUVs or trucks so I won't include any HUMMERs or Rams. I'm also assuming we're talking no near-exotics or exotics - so no Bentleys, Ferraris, Lotuses (Loti?), Lamborginis, Maseratis, Maybachs, Moslers, Panozes, Rolls Royces, etc. I personally don't think hybrid technology is mature enough for the real-world mileage claims, or for the claims on environmentally-friendly appropriateness, or for the cost/value analysis - so I'm gonna steer clear (pun intended) of hybrids.

Some of the car-related forums I go to often complain about what they call "magazine racers" ('There's absolutely NO way a stock Chevy Corvette could beat a Dodge Viper...'), in which I feel I'm getting too close for my own comfort in this regard. Here's my justification for my opinion: I don't have mega-bucks to be able to drive lots of different cars, so I only know about what I drive personally. Magazine writers (& Consumer Reports / Edmunds included) are paid to drive many, many more vehicles per year than I could ever hope to. They ARE all biased, even if that bias may be toward the more performance-oriented models in a product line. But they are also trained and experienced, much more than I am. I probably could have said all this more succinctly, but whatever...

The Honda Civic is this year's Motor Trend Car of the Year and is usually in CD's Top 10. A Civic is usually a good bet. The Civic Si has been reintroduced and is very powerful for a 4-cyl engine (arguably the only better 4-cyl factory engine is that in the Honda S2000 roadster).

Acura TL (one of my firm's partners just got one - too early to tell based on his experience but the magazines rave about it)
Audi A3
BMW 3series (always in the CD Top 10)
Buick Lucerne / Cadillac DTS
Chevrolet Cobalt
Chevrolet Corvette (I'll get one someday, maybe when the kids move on...)
Chevrolet HHR (I'm not sold on the styling)
Chrysler Crossfire / Mercedes Benz SLK
Chrysler PT Cruiser (my parents have one and love it)
Dodge Magnum SRT
Ford Fusion / Mazda 6 / Mercury Milan / Lincoln Zephyr
Ford Mustang GT (forget the V6, it's like getting cake with no frosting)
Honda Accord
Hyundai Accent (Hyundai has much improved build quality)
Hyundai Sonata
Infiniti Mseries
Jaguar XJ
Kia Rio
Lexus GSseries (one of our designers bought my partner's GS300 when he got the Acura)
Mazda 5
Mazda MX-5 (a.k.a. Miata - one of our senior designers just got one)
Mercedes Benz CLS
MINI Cooper S (our firm's interior designer has one - she raves about it)
Mitsubishi Eclipse GT
Nissan Maxima (if I had to get a sedan - this would be it)
Pontiac G6
Pontiac Grand Prix GXP
Pontiac Solstice (this would be my weekend car, if only)
Pontiac Vibe / Toyota Matrix
Porsche Boxster / Cayman
Subaru Impreza WRX / SAAB 9-2
Toyota Avalon
Toyota Camry
Volvo C70
VW Jetta
VW Passat