Car seat in rental car question

[vcunning]

sorry

I should have gone with my instinct that we were on the same page. Sometimes the fingers engage before the brain has a chance to direct them.

Florida's law is a sore spot with me ever since I was told at my tech course that the reason Jeb squashed the booster law was because he didn't want to "inconvenience the soccer moms"

Oh gosh . . . no need to be sorry here . . . Except I apologize if my post was "reactive". I actually think everyone is on the same page here . . . I'm glad you have a passtion for this.

It's tough to figure out what is legal . . . . what you do for a short time . . . and what is safe.

When we first had my son, we went to one of the free "check your car seat" programs. I'm an engineer and think I understand this stuff pretty well. Guess what, it wasn't installed correctly. I was sure I followed directions (although yes . . . I'm a guy . . . so I only have limited capacity here). I was very surprised with the real installation.

Even thought we may disagree on this post on the implementation, I think we all have the same objective in mind. Keeping our loved ones safe.

Unfortunately, the car rental companies don't incent car seats/booster seats at their daily prices ($7-10/day). I'm not even sure they are installed correctly. Even recently, we packed a booster seat for my 7 year old (45 pounds) in a bag by itself. It get's tougher when you have more kids (we'll find out . . . one due in 2 weeks . . . a trip to Disney planned in November). So I can appreciate the issues that other parents face.

 

[kathi29]

I have to respectfully disagree with the safety at any cost approach, as I and most other 40-somethings posting on this board somehow got thru childhood without the nanny-state telling our parents how to strap us into automobiles.

That being said, I always wear a seatbelt and make sure my child 48 lbs, 5 years old is suitably restrained when we travel. In our home cars, he sits on a booster seat. Obviously, he means the world to me and my wife.

In Florida, we are pleased that driving with a seat-belt around him in the backseat won't get us thrown in jail. For 10 short car trips in Florida each year, I can only pray for the same caution and luck that I do when ever I drive in New Jersey.

Given the effectiveness of the Federal Government around many other areas, including safety . . . I would prefer to listen to Doctors, Police and other parents for their advice.

You also didn't have airbags; people didn't drive as much or as far, or as fast. Today's reality is a lot different than when we were all kids. For the record, I am a parent (as well as a nationally certified Child Passenger Safety Technician). Not all doctors or police are parents, much less certified in child safety. Some of the car seat installations I have seen that were done by a firefighter or police officer are enough to make me want to scream.

But since you brought this up, what is the price of safety for your child? I don't advocate safety at any cost. I don't even subscribe to the absolute best practice of putting my 7.5 year old in a high weight limit harnessed seat. She rides in a booster in all vehicles where the seatbelt does not fit her properly (which is nearly every vehicle she would ride in). There isn't an instance, traveling or riding around town, where I can justify not taking the most basic safety measure to protect her from possible irreversible injuries. The federal government doesn't need to tell me that. I do it because I am her parent and it is my responsibility. I agree, it would be nice to just wrap a seatbelt around her and be on our merry way. I don't think it would be nearly as liberating to have to lock down a wheelchair.

This woman's story is pretty powerful. It starts on page 6 of the newsletter. http://www.camom.org/March_Newsletter_2005.pdf

 

[mexican-mouseketeers]

mexican-mouseketeers - that is a great idea to get around the airport. I am booking marketing everything I've come across and will make DH review them with me when he gets home - thanks!

You are welcome!

The other option is the ride safer vest http://www.travelingwithkids.com/product_info.php/pName/ride-safer-travel-vest-36-yrs

I prefer to take her Marathon with us now, but when she is older than 5, I am planning on buying on ot those vests.

Julie

 

[mexican-mouseketeers]

kathi29, I agree 100% with you, for me it is not about the law, it is about my daughter´s safety.

Julie

 

[jodifla]

I have to respectfully disagree with the safety at any cost approach, as I and most other 40-somethings posting on this board somehow got thru childhood without the nanny-state telling our parents how to strap us into automobiles.

That being said, I always wear a seatbelt and make sure my child 48 lbs, 5 years old is suitably restrained when we travel. In our home cars, he sits on a booster seat. Obviously, he means the world to me and my wife.

In Florida, we are pleased that driving with a seat-belt around him in the backseat won't get us thrown in jail. For 10 short car trips in Florida each year, I can only pray for the same caution and luck that I do when ever I drive in New Jersey.

Given the effectiveness of the Federal Government around many other areas, including safety . . . I would prefer to listen to Doctors, Police and other parents for their advice.

I agree with you, totally. My DS, 4, also rides in a booster seat on a daily basis. But the couple of times we were in Florida without a car seat I was glad the law didn't make me some sort of criminal for letting him ride with just a seat belt.

One of the reasons FL doesn't want to change the law to 8 or 10 or 20, whatever these extremists want, is that is quickly gets cost prohibitive to travel to Florida if you have to keep kids in car seats and boosters that long. For example, neither of my cars would sit three booster seats or car seats across the back. So THAT WOULD MEAN MANY PEOPLE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO DRIVE TO FLORIDA WITH THEIR KIDS IF THEY HAD MORE THAN TWO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You would also not be able to rent most vehicles, either, unless you got an expensive minivan or luxury car.


The FLorida law has it just right. Let the parents decide.

 

[kathi29]

So many states DO have booster laws, though, that if you are driving through them on your way to freedom in Florida, you will be breaking their laws.

I guess I just don't understand how not having to worry about paying a traffic ticket is preferable to the cost of a casket or life in a wheelchair.

 

[jodifla]

For the 5 1/2 year old, the backless booster should be fine. The biggest requirement you will need to check is that the back of the seat or headrest is no lower than the tips of your child's ears. My DD is just now 48" tall and in some vehicles would have a problem if there were no headrests. The concern is protecting the child from whiplash in the event of a crash.

As far as getting the booster there, what I do is take the armrests off and pack the seat and arms in a suitcase. (I have a turboboster. If this is what you have, just make sure to bring the screws and a screwdriver to reattach the armrests as they are integral to the function of the seat)

For the younger, I would use his seat on the plane. He will be comfortable and in a familiar seat, and he already knows that when he is buckled in he can't be up and running around. We (car seat techs) don't generally like to see kids under 5 out of a harnessed seat if at all possible. They tend to fall asleep and slump over, and they don't have the reasoning skills needed to make them understand that they cannot move around. If he is out of position or moves the shoulder belt behind him, he could be very very seriously injured in a crash.

So, booster seats don't work if your child had THE AUDACITY to fall asleep!!! My DS is often slumped over in his seat. He falls asleep all the time in the car.

I'd rather just lie him down in the back seat, if I had my way.

 

[kathi29]

No, the function of the booster is to lift the child up so that the lap/shoulder belt fits properly, and to provide something for the lap belt to "grab" in the event of a crash. In the event of a child falling asleep, the booster still does its job of getting the child to where they *can* be properly positioned. The seatbelt, however, will not be able to do its job. A slumped over child is not properly positioned in the seatbelt; a slumped over adult would not be properly positioned.

If you slam on the brakes, the shoulder belt retracts to hold you from lunging forward. How do you expect it to do that if you (or the child) are slumped over? It won't. I'm not knocking little kids for falling asleep in the car, I am saying that smaller children tend to fall asleep and if they are not properly restrained they are in considerably more danger in the event of a crash or even a sudden stop.

It's certainly your prerogative what chances you want to take with your sons life, but don't try to twist my words to make yourself feel better about it.

 

[jodifla]

No, the function of the booster is to lift the child up so that the lap/shoulder belt fits properly, and to provide something for the lap belt to "grab" in the event of a crash. In the event of a child falling asleep, the booster still does its job of getting the child to where they *can* be properly positioned. The seatbelt, however, will not be able to do its job. A slumped over child is not properly positioned in the seatbelt; a slumped over adult would not be properly positioned.

If you slam on the brakes, the shoulder belt retracts to hold you from lunging forward. How do you expect it to do that if you (or the child) are slumped over? It won't. I'm not knocking little kids for falling asleep in the car, I am saying that smaller children tend to fall asleep and if they are not properly restrained they are in considerably more danger in the event of a crash or even a sudden stop.

It's certainly your prerogative what chances you want to take with your sons life, but don't try to twist my words to make yourself feel better about it.

So, I shouldn't take him anywhere in the car?? He's a car sleeper, plain and simple. He'll be doing it well past the age of 5. I was, too. Luckily, in my day, I could just stretch out in the back seat with a pillow.

 

[kathi29]

Not at all. If he is a car sleeper, either keep him restrained in a 5 point harness, or lock the shoulder belt when he is in the booster seat. At least that will help keep him upright. A high back booster would help also. Some models (at least the Graco Turbobooster and the Britax boosters) have head wings that would help to keep a sleeping child upright in the seat, as well as providing some head and side impact protection.

Not that I have a lot of experience observing people asleep in cars, but I'm guessing as he gets older your son will fall asleep and his head may flop forward or just to one side or the other. NOT the upper half of his body, which is the problem with younger children. My almost 14 year old SS still falls asleep in the car, but at least the lap and shoulder belts remain properly positioned.

 

[jodifla]

Not at all. If he is a car sleeper, either keep him restrained in a 5 point harness, or lock the shoulder belt when he is in the booster seat. At least that will help keep him upright. A high back booster would help also. Some models (at least the Graco Turbobooster and the Britax boosters) have head wings that would help to keep a sleeping child upright in the seat, as well as providing some head and side impact protection.

Not that I have a lot of experience observing people asleep in cars, but I'm guessing as he gets older your son will fall asleep and his head may flop forward or just to one side or the other. NOT the upper half of his body, which is the problem with younger children. My almost 14 year old SS still falls asleep in the car, but at least the lap and shoulder belts remain properly positioned.

Neither of my cars has locking seatbelts. And he's too big for 5-point harnesses.

 

[kathi29]

Sigh... all vehicles manufactured after 1996 are required to have a way to lock in a child seat. So if your car is less than 10 years old, the seatbelts do lock somehow. That said, some manufacturers choose to satisfy that requirement through locking latchplates, but more of them choose a switchable retractor which allows the shoulder belt to move freely unless it is pulled out all the way, in which case it will tighten as it retracts.

On the chance that your vehicle is either an older model or only has locking latchplates, there are seats that harness to 65 pounds (the Britax Marathon and Decathlon, and the Cosco Apex) or to 80 pounds (the Britax Regent).

Still, the high back boosters I mentioned before would be a good choice because of the head wings that may help a sleeping child to not slump over or otherwise turn out of position.

 

[jodifla]

Sigh... all vehicles manufactured after 1996 are required to have a way to lock in a child seat. So if your car is less than 10 years old, the seatbelts do lock somehow. That said, some manufacturers choose to satisfy that requirement through locking latchplates, but more of them choose a switchable retractor which allows the shoulder belt to move freely unless it is pulled out all the way, in which case it will tighten as it retracts.

On the chance that your vehicle is either an older model or only has locking latchplates, there are seats that harness to 65 pounds (the Britax Marathon and Decathlon, and the Cosco Apex) or to 80 pounds (the Britax Regent).

Still, the high back boosters I mentioned before would be a good choice because of the head wings that may help a sleeping child to not slump over or otherwise turn out of position.

Not everyone has new cars. We have a '95 and '97. I have never been able to get the 97 to lock. We have the Graco Turboboosters, same as you.

 

[kathi29]

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree. You seem to be pretty anti-carseat, as I have seen in your other posts around here. Like I said before, that is your prerogative.

I'll give up trying now, because it is obvious you want me to tell you that it's okay to have your child slumped over, sideways, or lying down so he can sleep; or to tell you that you should never take him anywhere. I will do neither, so good luck to you and I sincerely hope your theories on crash and car seat physics are never tested.

 

[kizzy212]

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree. You seem to be pretty anti-carseat, as I have seen in your other posts around here. Like I said before, that is your prerogative.

I'll give up trying now, because it is obvious you want me to tell you that it's okay to have your child slumped over, sideways, or lying down so he can sleep; or to tell you that you should never take him anywhere. I will do neither, so good luck to you and I sincerely hope your theories on crash and car seat physics are never tested.

well said!!!!!!!!

 

[jodifla]

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree. You seem to be pretty anti-carseat, as I have seen in your other posts around here. Like I said before, that is your prerogative.

I'll give up trying now, because it is obvious you want me to tell you that it's okay to have your child slumped over, sideways, or lying down so he can sleep; or to tell you that you should never take him anywhere. I will do neither, so good luck to you and I sincerely hope your theories on crash and car seat physics are never tested.

I don't need your permission for anything. I'm just pointing out the flaws of car seats/booster seats, which there are many.

As you've pointed out yourself, most car seats are installed incorrectly, even when they are put in by experienced technicians like firefighters. At my son's first preschool, one parent took the child in, dropped off the car seat, so another adult could pick the child up. What percentage of those seats do you think were put in correctly, since they are changed several times a day.

And, I would bet MOST kids fall asleep when riding in long car trips, slipping out of the correct position for booster seats.

To me, it's like a lot of false security out there. And now you have parents who won't take Magical Express because they can't use their car seats!

I'm not anti-car seat/booster seat. I use one daily for my son. But they are not a panacea. And I don't like the fact that people have bullied legislators into having kids in boosters until they're practically ready to drive. It makes carpooling impractical, and turns simple events like needing someone else to pick up your child from daycare into a crisis.

 

[kathi29]

I never said firefighters were experienced technicians. Quite the contrary, actually. I question whether or not they would even read the instruction manual. Being a public servant does not make one an experienced technician. Taking the CPST course, becoming certified, and working with car seats makes an experienced technician.

Nor did I tell anyone not to use ME. I said it was a parental choice and explained the compartmentalization theory.

I think 90% of seats are installed incorrectly because people don't read the instructions, they don't read their car owners manual, they think they have a better way, or they think accidents only happen to other people.

And I don't give a rat's **** if carpooling is inconvenient. I bet it would be a lot more inconvenient if everyone doesn't have a handicapped van to strap down the wheelchairs.