Canon vs Nikon

[Geoff_M]

We would love it if every student purchased a Canon 6D, Canon 5D MarkII or 5D MarkIII, or a Nikon D700 or D800, but we know that those are expensive.

I would recommend that you give some consideration to the D700. This was basically a "poor man's D3" when it was in production (as late as 2012). But even at that, it still had a street price of about $3K. If you read the reviews, they raved about this camera. Here's a couple of examples: Thom Hogan, and Imaging Resource.

However, now you can pick up a decent used D700 for about the cost of new D7100, and get a heck of a lot better camera. The D700 is also considered a "pro" body. eBay has a number of camera dealers that sell used equipment on eBay and will stand behind the products. Roberts Camera and 1080photography are two that I've used. You can also find used real Nikon vertical MB-D10 grips for under $100. When added to the D700, you get a real beast of a camera and with an EN-EL4a battery you get 8 frames/sec!

 

[bob100]

I'd add here to make sure it's the "right" pro forum. Some are full of mom-togs who pick up a camera and start charging. Some are filled with pros who actually know what they're talking about. And many are a mix of the two.

Finding a local professional whose work you respect and has had real longevity in the business that is willing to mentor you can also be invaluable. I've learned far more that way than I have in school.

true, like many things people and business skills are far more important than tech and academic knowledge

 

[WDWFigment]

Funny... I'm about to graduate with a BFA in photography this May (I'm also a working professional) and this approach to equipment is a complete 180 from the programs I've been involved in. Is this a journalism program, a commercial program or a traditional art program? What does the student want to do photography wise after graduation? Knowing that would affect my idea about which camera would be most appropriate.

By the way... a photography degree is pretty much useless. Get some business classes or something in there as well because just studying photography will not get you a job. We joke at school that the only thing a BFA in photo is good for is applying for grad school. Sadly it's pretty much the truth.

If I were about to enroll in college with an eye toward becoming a photographer, I'd go for a degree in New Media/Internet Marketing or Business. I'd just learn photography on my own.

You could do it the other way around (degree in photography, learn marketing on your own), too, but having an actual degree in marketing/business is a better safety net, and you need both sets of skills, anyway.

 

[nvtsallo]

If I were about to enroll in college with an eye toward becoming a photographer, I'd go for a degree in New Media/Internet Marketing or Business. I'd just learn photography on my own. You could do it the other way around (degree in photography, learn marketing on your own), too, but having an actual degree in marketing/business is a better safety net, and you need both sets of skills, anyway.

I agree with this. You can learn so much thru real world use. As far as the c vs n ? I had a nikon dslr and thought the skin tones and images were just too neutral for me and flat. When I went to canon the camera put out a more pleasing image and the people looked to have more life in their faces. Thats just me. Its really a personal thing. I would rent both one at a time then decide. I might suggest sticking with a 70d since it has all the modern features while costing less. Plus the ef-s lenses are cheaper for a student. They can always upgrade.

 

[SkaGoat]

. Plus the ef-s lenses are cheaper for a student. They can always upgrade.

I wouldn't buy any EF-S lenses...

 

[havoc315]

I wouldn't buy any EF-S lenses...

Except for a basic kit lens, I agree with this.
And I disagree with buying a top tier body now in order to be "competitive" --

Buy now, with a plan of where you'll be in 2 years. If you buy a near-top-model now, with the point of competing with other photographers -- In 2 years, that camera will likely be starting to get pretty stale.
Yes, a top tier camera can stay modern for several years... But if you buy a 2-year-old top tier model now... in 2 years.. it will be 4 years old, getting slightly stale. And in terms of competitiveness with other photographers, you won't have an edge.

I'd buy a serviceable camera now, something great for learning --- Basically a camera with very good manual controls. I'd rather get an old used full frame, then a newer frilly APS-C.
When buying lenses, I'd generally only buy full frame lenses with the thought of eventually upgrading to full frame.

And then I'd start saving, with the goal of getting a premium full frame body at graduation, so really ready to enter the competitive photography market.

 

[lorinjax]

Being a photographer myself, I have had both Canon and Nikon. And in the last five years I've had 7 different cameras. So speaking from personal experience and thinking of a "beginning" student. I would think your best bet would be to buy an older Canon 5D "classic" or a Nikon D700. The 5D you can probably find well under $1000 with the D700 being just above $1000.
They are both full frame cameras so he won't lose any detail in resolution like a cropped sensor camera. They both handle noise extremely well. But the Nikon D700 is AMAZING for having almost no noise what so ever!
The 5D has an outdated screen compared to newer models but I find that to be a GOOD thing for beginners because it forces you to learn your histogram instead of relying on the back of your camera screen.
Sure there is better technology out there from "newer" cameras but that won't even matter if he doesn't know how to use it .
If you are looking for one he won't outgrow for a long time then I say go with a Nikon D700.

FYI, I just bought my 15 year old the Canon 5D. I currently shoot with a Canon Mark iii and have the Nikon D700 as a backup camera

Oh and if it says get a 50/2.0 then only get that specific one. The 1.8, 1.4, 1.2 is not a macro. The 2.0 IS a macro. So there must be a reason they say that specific lens.

 

[photo_chick]

I agree with this. You can learn so much thru real world use. As far as the c vs n ? I had a nikon dslr and thought the skin tones and images were just too neutral for me and flat. When I went to canon the camera put out a more pleasing image and the people looked to have more life in their faces. Thats just me. Its really a personal thing. I would rent both one at a time then decide. I might suggest sticking with a 70d since it has all the modern features while costing less. Plus the ef-s lenses are cheaper for a student. They can always upgrade.

A lot of the things that swayed your opinion between Canon and Nikon are in the processing. Now when Nikon was using CCD sensors in their DSLR's they did have issues with bleeding reds. But they've been using CMOS for a while now so that's a non-issue.

And again, normally I'm in favor of the go cheap when you're starting out because you don't know what you want and can upgrade later philosophy. I'm a huge proponent of crop bodies with entry level lenses and a big believer that in the end the gear is just a tool. And if you plan to shoot portraits for your friends and neighbors for a living a crop body is fine. 95% of the time using whatever gear you have is fine. But the OP is talking about a commercial based program and that leads to work in the commercial world. This is that 5% of the time where you need to pony up for the pro gear, even entry level pro gear, because after spending the time and money on an education you're probably planning to be more than just a small time portrait photographer who can get by with a crop body.

 

[havoc315]

A lot of the things that swayed your opinion between Canon and Nikon are in the processing. Now when Nikon was using CCD sensors in their DSLR's they did have issues with bleeding reds. But they've been using CMOS for a while now so that's a non-issue.

And again, normally I'm in favor of the go cheap when you're starting out because you don't know what you want and can upgrade later philosophy. I'm a huge proponent of crop bodies with entry level lenses and a big believer that in the end the gear is just a tool. And if you plan to shoot portraits for your friends and neighbors for a living a crop body is fine. 95% of the time using whatever gear you have is fine. But the OP is talking about a commercial based program and that leads to work in the commercial world. This is that 5% of the time where you need to pony up for the pro gear, even entry level pro gear, because after spending the time and money on an education you're probably planning to be more than just a small time portrait photographer who can get by with a crop body.

I'm not a professional.... And a crop body may be totally fine for much professional work.

But I would try to figure out whether or not he would intend to eventually go full frame.
And understand, *IF* the plan is to eventually go full frame then:
1 -- As you collect lenses, steer towards full frame lenses.
2 -- If you start out with a crop body, there is a bit of an adjustment to full frame. All of a sudden, your viewing angle becomes wider using the same lenses. A 50mm lens goes from being a bit telephoto, to being a normal view.
It changes how you shoot portraits. My 85mm lens was a headshot lens on my crop body, and became a full body portrait lens on full frame.

That's why I would at least consider starting with a cheap full frame.. so not re-learning and adjusting later on. (Though it's not a very steep learning curve, just a slight re-adjustment).

 

[justjulie]

The paperwork says he must have a 50mm (f2.8) lens but from what I can see, Canon does not even make that lens ... oiiii ...

Off to the Open House we go to confirm what equipment they really insist on and what can be borrowed from their Loans Department.

 

[SrisonS]

The paperwork says he must have a 50mm (f2.8) lens but from what I can see, Canon does not even make that lens ... oiiii ... Off to the Open House we go to confirm what equipment they really insist on and what can be borrowed from their Loans Department.

It's probably just a typo. But even so, a 50mm f1.8 can still get you to the f2.8 with the settings. So no need to fret there.

 

[BirdsOfPreyDave]

Canon's having a 30% off sale on refurbished bodies until the 22nd. Comes with a full warranty and will save you big over buying retail. Doesn't look like they have any full-frame models available right now, though.

http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/c...-_-140317610-_-StPattys&WT.mc_id=SOCFB0317001

 

[Daisy14'sDH]

Another question, he's pursuing a career in photography? I would think that he has some equipment already?

 

[justjulie]

You guys are great - I am off to see if the Canon sale applies to Canada or if I will get dinged with customs, duty, shipping and delivery.

For those asking about exisiting equipment -no, he does not have any. He has been using his iPhone, my old film camera and my existing camera. He has finally decided that he does not want a "math and science" career and wants something more creative so he is going to school to learn Photography - everyone has to start somewhere and at least now he has some sense of direction.

 

[SkaGoat]

You guys are great - I am off to see if the Canon sale applies to Canada or if I will get dinged with customs, duty, shipping and delivery.

Don't forget about currency value as well. The only cameras I'd consider at that link are the 60D and 7D. The 7D with a kit lens is $1122 CAD ($1007 USD). By the time you get that shipped to Canada, you could have gone to Henry's and bought a brand new 70D with kit lens ($1249.99).

 

[justjulie]

I just found the Canon 60D and Nikon 7000 at Costco bundled with a two lenses, sd card and bag for $1,000 - any thoughts now?

 

[bob100]

I just found the Canon 60D and Nikon 7000 at Costco bundled with a two lenses, sd card and bag for $1,000 - any thoughts now?

my thoughts - Costco is good for groceries, not so good for cameras!
Because the "bundles" often include not-so-good lens and on the Canon side you can get a 60D for only $460

another thought - get your son involved with this camera purchase, he's the one that's going to be using it

 

[photo_chick]

I just found the Canon 60D and Nikon 7000 at Costco bundled with a two lenses, sd card and bag for $1,000 - any thoughts now?

Yeah, that's way too much money for a 60D bundle unless they're packing some seriously nice lenses with it. And they're probably not.

For $1000 you can get into a refurbished 7D with an entry level lens. It's the same sensor that the 60D uses but with a whole lot more features. It's a camera that was designed to be Canon's answer to a professional grade crop body and it doesn't fall short in that respect features wise. It just doesn't have the image quality to be competitive at that level anymore, though it did when it was released.

I also agree with bob100 that your son should be shopping with you. Really, if this is his field he should be doing the research because he has to understand what he's getting and why. And he's got to be the one comfortable with the camera.... there's a huge difference in the feel between a Canon and Nikon and even a good bit of variation between the different models in each line. Getting a DSLR that you're going to depend on for your grades and then your income should be a huge deal. If it's not then why even bother going to school for this?

 

[SkaGoat]

you have to remember she's in Canada, she isn't going to find a new 7D for $1000, and definitely isn't going to find a new 60D almost anywhere besides Costco.

As far as the 7D vs. a full frame camera. It depends on what your needs are, if you shoot wild life, sports etc... You are much better off with the 7D than a 6D.

7D has a better AF system, frame rate and is much more rugged when compared to the 6D.

If you shoot portraits and landscapes you'll want to look at a 6D.

 

[photo_chick]

you have to remember she's in Canada, she isn't going to find a new 7D for $1000, and definitely isn't going to find a new 60D almost anywhere besides Costco.

As far as the 7D vs. a full frame camera. It depends on what your needs are, if you shoot wild life, sports etc... You are much better off with the 7D than a 6D.

7D has a better AF system, frame rate and is much more rugged when compared to the 6D.

If you shoot portraits and landscapes you'll want to look at a 6D.

Didn't say a new 7D, I said a refurb. Pretty big price difference between the two right now.

I do totally agree that the 6D is the way to go if shooting portraits and landscapes. And to me the bare minimum I'd shop for in this case at all since we're talking about a professional track education that only lasts 2 years before you're a working pro. I'd also personally stay away form entry level lenses here as well. But since the $1000 price tag was thrown out I was making the leap that there is probably a budget that's too limited to purchase what's truly needed and so I tossed out a viable alternative to the crappy Costco deal. Even $1000 Canadian, that's a bad deal for a 60D. Not when you can get more for your money with other cameras right now.